2,000 Greater & Lesser Mysteries/2,000 Greater and Lesser Mysteries.iso/ufo/aav/mys02112.txt/alt.conspiracy_4387_000003.msg

Text File | 1994-06-10 | 847.7 KB | 17,716 lines

Path: lassie!voder!apple!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.misc
Subject: INFO: Still *more* data on Belgium Sightings - Antonio Huneeus
Keywords: Followups to alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 91 20:46:52 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 375
Xref: lassie alt.conspiracy:4387 misc.misc:9567

Here's some recent info written by Antonio Huneeus on the rash
of sightings not long ago in Belgium. This came off the ParaNet
UFO echo.

------Begin Included Text ---------------------------------------




Message #2144 - INFO.PARANET
   Date : 17-Apr-91 18:13
   From : ParaNet(sm) Information Service
     To : All
Subject : Belgium Information
This file was provided by ParaNet(sm) Information Service
and its network of international affiliates.
You may freely distribute this file as long as this header
remains intact.
Date Prepared:  April 17, 1991
Contributed by: Antonio Huneeus
============================================================
For further information on ParaNet(sm), contact:
Michael Corbin
ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheatridge, CO  80034-0172
or
FidoNet 1:104/422
Internet [e-mail]
===========================================================

Article as it appeared in UFO Universe, June/July 1991.

BREAKING DOWN "THE WALL" OF UFO SILENCE

FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS, ALMOST THE ENTIRE EUROPEAN CONTINENT HAS
BEEN  PLAGUED BY A WAVE OF UFO SIGHTINGS UNSURPASSED IN  HISTORY,
PERHAPS  MOST  PUZZLING  HAVE BEEN THOSE OF  A  GIGANTIC  "FLYING
PLATFORM" SIGHTED NEAR THE GERMAN BORDER IN BELGIUM.

By Antonio Huneeus

(c)  1991  by  A. Huneeus. All  Rights  Reserved  Reprinted  with
permission   to  ParaNet(sm)  Information  Service   No   further
reproduction  is  allowed  without written  permission  from  the
author.

In  a totally unprecedented move in the history of  ufology,  the
Belgian   Air  Force  and  government  has  not  only   carefully
documented  the  great  UFO wave over Wallonia,  but  shared  its
results  with  civilian investigators and the public,  in  effect
literally  breaking  down "The Wall" of UFO  Silence  that  still
stands in the western world.
        * * *
  For  the past year, citizens in the French-speaking  region  of
Wallonia  in Belgium have experienced an extraordinary UFO  wave.
Thousands  of witnesses, including dozens of gendarmes  (national
police)  and  officers of the Belgian Air Force,  have  described
triangular-shaped vehicles flying slowly over rooftops, hovering,
shooting  searchlights and performing incredible  maneuvers.  The
objects  have been captured on some 25 videotapes and tracked  on
both ground and airborne radar by the military.
  Few, if any, will doubt that the triangular UFOs have been seen
all  over Wallonia since November of 1989. According to  a  front
page  story in The Wall Street Journal published on  October  10,
1990   and  entitled  "Belgium  Scientists  Seriously  Pursue   A
Triangular UFO," "since the rash of sightings here began almost a
year  ago,  more than ]2,600 have been reported of  a  triangular
object  with  three huge lights hovering in the  night  sky  over
Wallonia."  The  question that some are asking is  whether  these
objects  could  be explained by the testing of a new  top  secret
military  aircraft. Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs), AWACS,  the
F-117 Stealth Fighter, and a modified version of the B-2  Stealth
Bomber, are some of the options that have been suggested.
  Besides  the large amount of well documented data  gathered  by
the  Gendarmerie, the Air Force and civilian scientists from  the
Belgian  Society for the Study of Space Phenomena  (SOBEPS),  the
Belgian Map has broken another record. For the first time ever in
the  controversial  history of UFOs anywhere in  the  world,  the
Belgian  Minister of Defense, Guy Coeme, has authorized  the  Air
Force  to fully cooperate with SOBEPS, forwarding their  reports,
and  even  putting at their disposal a  Hawker  Sideley  aircraft
equipped  with  infrared  cameras  and  sophisticated  electronic
sensors.

 As the well known French physicist, Jean Pierre Petit, explained
to  Paris  Match magazine, "we are living in a time that  is  the
beginning  of  a  period  of  openness.  First  the  Berlin  Wall
crumbled,  now  the  wall  of  silence  about  UFOs  is  falling.
Concerning the UFOs, we are entering a phase completely different
from the earlier ones. It is the end of commercialism and fakery.
The  true  scientists are finally making their  appearance."  Dr.
Petit  is  a senior physicist and director of research  with  the
National Center for Scientific Research of France. An  iconoclast
and a world class expert on magnetohydrodynamcs (MHD), Dr.  Petit
has  also conducted some rather interesting UFO research  of  his
own,  publishing recently his results in the book,  INVESTIGATION
OF UFOS.
     Unlike  many other UFO groups around the world,  the  SOBEPS
has  a  team of respected scientists, including  Leon  Brenig,  a
nonlinear  dynamics theorist at the Free University in  Brussels,
and  Professor  August  Meessen, a physicist  from  the  Catholic
University at Louvain. Among the numerous UFO witnesses, in fact,
were  Lucien  Clerebaut,  Secretary General  of  SOBEPS,  Patrick
Ferryn, a film producer and founding member, and Jose  Fernandez,
another SOBEPS investigator. "Here is an opportunity where we can
apply the scientific method," remarked Professor Brenig.
   SOBEPS  files  show that the first sightings occurred  on  the
night  of  November  7,  1989, when  two  gendarmes  from  Esneux
observed a silent huge craft "with two very powerful white lights
directed  downwards and 'a sort of green and red  garland.'"  The
flap,  however, gained momentum and notoriety on the  evening  of
November 29 when 41 witnesses, including six gendarmes,  observed
the huge triangle - sometimes referred as "a stationary  platform
"  - in Eupen, Verviers, and several other locations in  Wallonia
near the border with Germany. As the press speculated with  AWACS
and Stealth aircraft on the following days, the Defense  Minister
Guy  Coeme dismissed these rumors, stating that  "all  hypotheses
involving the presence of military aircraft in our air space  are
definitely to be ruled out. "


 It is perhaps because the objects are so far unidentified,  that
the  Belgian  Air Force has undertaken the task  of  chasing  and
investigating  the  intruders. As Col. Wilfried de  Brouwer,  the
Chief of Operations of the Belgian Air Force who is  coordinating
the  UFO  investigation,  told  The  Wall  Street  Journal,  "Our
approach  is that it's our job to see what's going  on."  Indeed,
the  UFO flap climaxed on the night of March 30-31 of 1990,  when
unknown targets were tracked by two radar installations. The  one
at  Glons,  located southeast of Brussels, belongs  to  the  NATO
defense group - NATO Headquarters is in Brussels - while that  at
Semmerzake,  west  of Brussels, is in charge of  controlling  all
military and civilian traffic in the entire Belgian territory. At
that  point, the master-controller at Glons ordered the  scramble
of  two  F-16 interceptors, which also locked the  UFO  on  their
onboard radars.
  We  have  obtained,  courtesy  of  French  researcher  Jean-Luc
Rivera, a copy of the complete report of this incident, which was
prepared  by  Air Force Major P. Lambrechts, from the  Air  Force
General Staff in Brussels, and which was forwarded to the  SOBEPS
following  the instructions of full cooperation with that  group.
The  "Report Concerning the Observation of UFOs During the  Night
of  March  30  to 31, 1990," includes a full  chronology  of  the
events, as well as a thick dossier of enclosures with eyewitness'
descriptions  from  several  gendarmes  and  maps  of  where  the
sightings took place.
  Major  P.  Lambrechts  explains at  the  inception  that,  "the
observations  both visual and by radar were of such nature,  that
it  was decided to order the scramble of two F-16  aircraft  with
the  goal of identifying these UFOs." The report  also  indicates
that  "the  presence or testing of B2 or F117  (Stealth  Bomber),
RPVs  (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), ULMs (Ultra  Light  Motorized)
and AWACS at the moment of these events in the Belgian  airspace,
can be excluded. "
  According  to the Chronology, the Sequence of events  began  at
22.50  hours, when the "master controller at Glons "  received  a
telephone call from gendarme Renquin, who reported he was  seeing
from  his house in Ramillies, "three unusual lights. . .  forming
an  equilateral triangle, and with changing colors of red,  green
and  yellow." At 23.05, the Gendarmerie at Wavre sent  a  patrol,
which  confirmed the observation. At 23.15, Renquin called  again
to inform that he was seeing a new set of three lights, while the
radar screens at Glons detected " an unidentified contact  moving
at  a  speed of around 25 knots." (A knot is  equivalent  to  one
nautical mile - 6,080 feet - per hour. )
  For  the  next two and a half hours, an  increasing  number  of
gendarmes  and other witnesses continued to observe  the  strange
maneuvers  of  up  to  three sets of  triangular  lights  in  the
outskirts  of  Brussels.  By 23.49 hours, the  radar  screens  at
Semmerzake confirmed the targets and the order to scramble two F-
16s  was given at 23.56 hours, taking off at 00.05 on  March  31.
According  to the report, "the aircraft had brief radar  contacts
on  several occasions." However, each time that "the pilots  were
able  to secure a lock on one of the targets for a  few  seconds,
this  resulted each time in a drastic change in the  behavior  of
the UFOs."
  During  the first lock on at 00.13, continues the report,  "the
speed of the target changed in a minimum of time from 150 to  970
knots  and  from 9,000 to 5,000 feet, returning  then  to  11,000
feet,  in  order to change again to close to ground  level;  this
resulted  in a 'break lock' in a few seconds and the pilots  lost
the radar contact." In another lock on at 00.30 hours, the "break
lock" was achieved by what the report calls "a jamming signal  on
the screen."
  Col. de Brouwer explained to Paris Match reporter Marie-Therese
de Brosses, that the change of velocity from 280 KPM to 1,800 KPH
while descending from 3,000 meters to 1,000 meters in one second,
was  a  fantastic acceleration equivalent to 40  Gs.  This  would
exclude  any human pilot onboard the UFO, since humans  can  only
withstand  8 Gs. (A "G " is a unit of acceleration equivalent  to
the  gravitational pull of the earth, 9.81 m/sec/sec.)  When  the
UFO  approached the ground level, continued Col. de Brouwer,  "it
was out of the question for the F-16 to catch up with the  object
at  this  low altitude, where the density of the air  limits  the
speed  to  1,300 KMP. Above that speed, the  temperature  in  the
compressors of the jet turbines would cause the engines to burst.
There  was a logic behind the motions of the object,"  added  the
Colonel.

In any case, the cat and mouse game went on until shortly after 1
am,  when the F-16s were ordered to return to their base. On  the
ground, however, Captain Pinson and other gendarmes continued  to
observe "four white luminous spots forming a square" until around
1.30,  when  "the four UFOs lost their luminosity and  seemed  to
disappear  in  four  different  directions."  Significantly,  the
weather conditions on that night were very clear, allowing ground
witnesses  to  observe  the objects in detail,  as  well  as  the
pursuit  by the F-16s. The pilots, however, did not  observe  the
objects visually.
  Major  Lambrechts  finally  excludes a  number  of  alternative
hypotheses  for the UFOs, such as "optical  illusions,  confusion
with   planets  or  other  meteorological  phenomena...   weather
balloons.  .  .  or meteorological inversions.  .  .  holographic
projections,"  etc. More importantly, he writes that "the  speeds
measured  at  he moment of the change of altitudes,  exclude  the
hypothesis  that  the  UFOs  observed  could  be  confused   with
aircraft. " Still more puzzling was the fact that, "despite  that
on  several  occasions high speeds above the speed of  the  sound
barrier  were measured, the shock wave was never observed.  Here,
no  explanation can be given." The French physicist  Jean  Pierre
Petit concurred: "In reality," he told Paris Match, "there is  no
machine  made  by man, either an airplane or a missile,  that  is
capable of such performance. Specifically, flying at the speed of
sound without making a sonic boom."


  Although  the Belgian military authorities have  insisted  that
the  UFOs  in Wallonia are no secret aircraft,  the  similarities
between the triangular craft seen in Belgium with the  boomerang-
shaped objects reported throughout the last decade in the  Hudson
Valley  in  New York and Western Connecticut, as  well  as  other
triangular UFOs observed in Wytheville, Virginia, Fyffe, Alabama,
and Puerto Rico, among other places, have led some researchers to
suggest  that  the technology behind all  these  observations  is
terrestrial and not extraterrestrial.
  The similarity between the Belgian and Hudson Valley flaps  was
noted  by SOBEPS investigator Patrick Ferryn. Commenting  on  the
book  Night  Siege  by the late  Dr.  Allen  Hynek,  investigator
Phillip  Imbrogno  and reporter Bob Pratt, which  documented  the
Hudson  Valley  cases,  Ferryn wrote that "changing  only  a  few
words,  exactly the same could be written to give an  account  of
the position of affairs here! [in Belgium] The same goes for many
entire pages and excerpts elsewhere in the book."
  While  nobody doubts that people have been seeing something  in
both  upstate New York and Wallonia in Belgium, the big  question
is  whether  these sightings are caused by true UFOs or  by  some
kind  of  new revolutionary secret  military  aircraft.  Foremost
among  the  proponents  of  the  secret  weapon  theory  is  Tony
Gonsalves,  a researcher from East Providence, Rhode Island,  who
served  as a jet mechanic and plane captain for the U.S. Navy  on
three aircraft carriers between 1959 and 1963.
  In  a  number  of papers written during  the  last  two  years,
Gonsalves  has developed his theory of "The American made UFO"  -
that the boomerangs of Westchester and Duchess counties, as  well
as the triangular UFOs of Belgium, Virginia and Puerto Rico,  are
actually  a  modified covert version of the B-2  Stealth  Bomber.
Gonsalves  believes this craft has been fully  operational  since
the early 80s, while the official B-2 bomber that was unveiled in
1988  is a "decoy" to deceive the American public, the media  and
the  Congress.  Furthermore,  Tony  Gonsalves  and  a  few  other
ufologists   speculate  that  this  secret  aircraft   may   even
incorporate  some  alien  technology obtained  from  UFO  crashes
decades ago.
  Gonsalves' theory seemed to gain some credibility when Aviation
Week & Space Technology magazine reported in its October 1,  1990
edition that, "large, triangular wing-Shaped aircraft" are indeed
being tested out of the Nellis Air Force range in Nevada and  the
Tehachapi  Mountains  near Edwards AFB in  California.  The  well
known aerospace magazine mentioned several sightings by engineers
of "triangular-shaped aircraft, " possibly prototypes for the  A-
12,  the  Navy's  new Stealth attack plane, and  one  or  several
versions for reconnaissance aircraft cloaked under the top secret
code  of  Aurora, to replace the old Lockheed  SR-71  "Blackbird"
which was recently mothballed. Aviation Week (sometimes  referred
by the nickname of "Aviation Leak") also quoted Air Force sources
who "acknowledged that diamond and triangular-shaped vehicles are
'the  trend  now,'" as well as unconfirmed reports that  some  of
these aircraft "were designed to operate at speeds around Mach 10
or higher."
  Because  he  worked  for  over 30 years  as  senior  editor  of
Aviation Week, where he is still a contributing editor, we sought
the  opinion  of  well known UFO debunker  Phillip  Klass  as  to
whether there could be any validity to explain the Hudson  Valley
and  Belgian  flaps  with Secret military  aircraft,  Stealth  or
otherwise.  "In  my  opinion  the  answer  is  absolutely   not,"
responded  Klass,  adding  that  only  those  sightings  "in  the
vicinity  of Nellis Air Force Base" in Nevada could be caused  by
military  aircraft  tests. "If there were a  secret  airplane,  "
continued Klass, "for goodness' sake, the last place in the world
you'd want to fly it is in Duchess County, where people have been
alerted to look for objects."
  Although  they  certainly disagree on the final  cause  of  the
sightings,  Klass  and  Phillip  Imbrogno  seem  to  be  in  full
agreement  in their rejection of Tony Gonsalves' Stealth  theory.
"l  can't  see the government testing a top secret device  in  an
area like this, " said Imbrogno. "Number one, what if they have a
problem,  what  if they crash?" Imbrogno said he  had  considered
this  possibility  when  he  first  looked  into  the   boomerang
sightings,  but  that "I am convinced right now that  the  Hudson
Valley UFO is not an aircraft, Stealth or otherwise. Number  two,
I  am  not totally convinced that it's  from  outerspace.  Number
three, I don't know what the hell it is."
   Meanwhile, sightings continue to pile up in Europe. The latest
case  before we go to press was reported in early November,  when
"mystery shapes in the sky, variously described as orange  balls,
triangles and points of light," were reported in France, Belgium,
Germany,  Switzerland and Italy, according to a  newswire  report
from  the Reuter's news agency. Police phone lines  were  flooded
across  the  continent  with  calls  about  unidentified   flying
objects.  Experts in Munich speculated the sightings  could  have
been  triggered  by the explosion of a meteorite.  However,  this
explanation  could  hardly  satisfy  the  familiar  sightings  in
Belgium,  where  "dozens of people reported a  triangular  object
with   three  lights  flying  slowly  and  soundlessly   to   the
southwest," according to the Reuter report.
  The Belgian Air Force was studying once again the case, and  so
was France's Service for the Investigation of Re-entry  Phenomena
(SEPRA), which is attached to the French National Space Agency in
Toulouse  and was formerly known as GEPAN. One Air  France  pilot
told  a  radio  interviewer: "We were on a  flight  to  Barcelona
(Spain) at about 33,000 feet at about 7 pm when we first saw  the
shape. It couldn't have been a satellite because it was there for
three or four minutes."
  If the sightings in Belgium and elsewhere turn out to be secret
aircraft,  the mystery will become pubic sooner or later, but  if
they are indeed caused by true UFOs, then we may be debating them
for  a long time to come. Perhaps a summary of the whole  Belgian
flap  and  its  meaning was best expressed  by  SOBEPS  Scientist
August  Meessen, Professor of Physics at the Catholic  University
at  Louvain. He told the French magazine Paris Match: "There  are
too  many independent eyewitness reports to ignore. Too  many  of
the  reports describe coherent physical effects, and there is  an
agreement among the accounts concerning what was observed. If all
of these witnesses are lying, then it is a mental disease of such
novelty and proportions that it must be studied."


  "But  of  course,"  continued Prof. Meessen,  "there  are  also
physical effects. The Air Force report allows us to approach  the
problem in a rational and scientific way. The simplest hypothesis
is that the reports are caused by extraterrestrial visitors,  but
that  hypothesis carries with it other problems. We are not in  a
rush  to form a conclusion, but continue to study  the  mystery."
The last word about the UFO flap that has brought down "The Wall"
of UFO Silence has yet to be uttered.


     ABOUT THE AUTHOR Chilean-American journalist Antonio Huneeus
was  born in New York in 1950, the son of a Chilean diplomat  and
United  States  official. After studying French at  the  Sarbonne
University  in Paris in 1970 and journalism at the University  of
Chile,  he  worked  as science editor for a  weekly  magazine  in
Santiago  and  was  a contributor for  a  number  of  newspapers.
Huneeus'  UFO investigation began in 1977 with the bizarre  "time
warp"  incident  of Chilean Army Corporal Armando  Valdes.  Since
then,  he  has written hundreds of articles on UFOs  and  related
subjects for such publications as Omni, UFO Report, and the MUFON
JOURNAL  in the U.S., as well as for magazines  throughout  South
America  and Europe. Last year he won the UFOlogists of the  Year
Award  given by the National UFO Conference. The photographs  and
art  that  accompany  this  article are  part  of  Antonio's  UFO
CHRONICLE  lecture and slide presentation. Readers may reach  the
author directly at Box 1989, New York, NY 10159.

END
PARANET FILE NAME: BELGIUM1.UFO

--EOF ----------------------------------------------------------

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13331 sci.skeptic:36151 alt.alien.visitors:12088
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!j0nez
From: [e-mail] (J0nez)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Tunnels #1.
Date: 22 Dec 1992 23:16:55 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: Some suggested that we drive into the tunnel. That might
>prove interesting. It's not number one on my priority list though.
>John Winston.

What in the world COULD be number one on your priority list?  What do you DO?
You baffle me, man.

-John

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!Turing.ORG!lfoard
From: [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:55:54 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Max Elliot) writes:
>
>  Well, I suggested a few postings back that maybe our buddy JW
>  was a spook, and guess what happened.... I was e-mailed by a
>  man from the US Army Research Labs, who has never to my knowledge
>  posted in this group, wanting to know *why* it was I thought JW
>  was on the take!

Probably wanted to investigate the possibility of federal funds being wasted
:-)

>  Pretty fishy huh?

Just being from a .mil site doesn't mean someone is in the upper echelons
of the CIA, NSA, Mafia, Illuminati etc.

>  Well, whether JW *is* on the
>  take or not is irrelevant.

It would be a good place to save a few 10's of K in the budget :)

BTW-
 UFO's stolen by the military are now being used by the Mafia in congunction
 with the queen of England to fly Heroin and dead aliens to the US from
 Thailand. These in turned are exchanged for credit card numbers by the NSA,
 the credit card numbers are used to purchase accounts on the internet to
 give to local lunatics with the goal of obscuring any real information
 presented....

P.S. Just kidding :-)
--
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![[e-mail]]
From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: question!
Message-ID: <1992Dec22.4962.12310@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:29:21 EST
Lines: 17

TO: [e-mail]

JP>Can anyone in USENET land see this post?  I am doubting my postings are
JP>making it through my local gateway.  Any comments back indicating that
JP>you have seen this would be much appreciated.

I've seen. I've read. I've responded. !!!!!!
TTYL

                         �����������������������������������������������
                         ��Ķ Roman Andruszko �����۲�������������������
                         �����������������������������������������������
---
 � DeLuxe� 1.26b #7079 � File not found... Loading somthing similar!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13332 alt.alien.visitors:12091
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:09:48 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: Yes I think that informaition originally came from Kumar
and he got it from Walter.
John Wisnton.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13333 alt.alien.visitors:12092 alt.religion.kibology:5477
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:12:34 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: You people are a good group and not afraid to say what
you think. I admire that in people.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!adcmail!markw
From: [e-mail] (Mark Wattier)
Subject: Radionics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mark Wattier)
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Disclaimer: Views expressed do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:25:13 GMT
Lines: 13

The Portland (Oregon USA) UFO Contact center has begun a discussion of
radionics. The best definition we could come up with for this is the
application of electronic technology to psychic phenomena.

It is alleged that aliens (Zetas and Pleiadians) communicate telepathically,
sometimes with the aid of some sort of box.

There is supposedly a 'Heironymous Machine' (sp?) that amplifies dowsing. Is
there anybody out there who is familiar with such a device?

We have a dowser in our group, and we would like to do some experiments.

Keep looking up....
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news
From: [e-mail] ((...))
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Net)
Organization: FHU
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 07:04:43 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22
Lines: 15


JOHN WINSTON is DEAD .... thanx to my KILLFILE.

I think it did a pretty good job or didn't JW post any mail
within the last 48 hours !?!?!?!???

Anyway, I DON'T MISS HIS MAIL !!!


Merry Christmas and a happy new one ..


Heiko


From: [e-mail] (Elvin(K.K.) Yeung)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:16:43 GMT
Subject: Re: UFO call-in show on CBC Newsworld
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!censor!teecs!yeung
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

qtalk keung

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Michael_-_Saleeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Winston revealed
Date: 24 Dec 1992 00:52:42 +1100
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 2
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au

Dear Folks: If I have time later I'll post about John Winston.
Michael Saleeba.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Michael_-_Saleeba)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Winston revealed
Date: 24 Dec 1992 01:07:34 +1100
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au

 As a special Christmas present for you all I have found out some
really interesting things about John Winston and I'm going to tell
you. I guess you might say all I've got for your Christmas present and
its not good enough haha. Anyway at first I thought that maybe this
was so secret that I'd get people to talk to me about it in private
email but I think the world should know about it so here goes. Before
you all ask where I got this information I'll tell you. I trust this
source implicitly because it came from my own head! I had a dream like
all the best paranormal people do and I guess it was a vision, because
it was all sort of wavy and hazy around the edges like they do on tv.
  I saw these two guys sitting at a computer and pointing and laughing
at the screen. At first I thought it was my good chum Kibo but they
didn't have a dog so I guess not. And they had all these sheets of
paper pinned to the wall with "John Winston - character", "John
Winston - grammatical style", "John Winston - typographical style".
And they had this huge pile of "National Enquirers". They were writing
this thing on the computer and they signed it with John's name! That
was the really wierd bit. I don't understand it. Maybe it's Freudian
or something. Anyway John you'd better watch out because there might
be people forging things like they came from you.
 Anyway, Christmas cheer to you all. All cheer at Christmas! Yay! haha
Michael Saleeba.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13334 alt.alien.visitors:12099 sci.skeptic:36172
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: What Do I Do?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:27:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Folks: What do I do that is the question. I am part of a group
who have volunteered to come to earth to enlighten everyone and help
bring the earth into the next dimension of existence. Now how is that
for a serious answer?
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13335 alt.alien.visitors:12100
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:34:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Ones: Don't tell anyone but I believe a few lagards are starting
to awaken.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13336 alt.alien.visitors:12101 alt.religion.kibology:5479
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:37:37 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I do think you people may be posting better information
that I am.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Story of EBE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:44:22 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Folks: I attempted to run the information off on my printer and
after 66 pages the thing ran out of paper. I read some of the
information and I still haven't come to a decision on the truthfullness
of the stuff. It may be true and may be false.
John Winston. Don Showen has told me in the past that Don Allen is a
pretty straight shooter though.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Boy
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:52:41 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Serious Ones: I can not and will not explain my actions. Maybe there
is no explanation. A person gotta do what a person's gotta do.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Las Vegas UFO Congress
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:55:29 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Folks: Denise can tell you all about it if she was not so bashful.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!coventry!aph016
From: [e-mail] (ozzy)
Subject: Whitley Strieber (What is he up to)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news user)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh
Organization: Coventry University, Coventry, UK.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:37:00 GMT
Lines: 12

I am currently in the middle of reading Communion, the 'celebrated'
book by Whitley Strieber. I was wondering what you guys out there
thought to all this, if you have any thoughts about it at all.
Email or posting, I'll try and read them, when I am on next (which
may not be for quite a while)

Merry Christmas, solstice, whatever!

ozzy

ps. Sorry if this has been done to death in the past, I didnt read it then

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13337 alt.alien.visitors:12106 sci.skeptic:36177
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!e2big.mko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Subject: Re: What Do I Do?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:16:31 GMT
Lines: 18


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Dear Folks: What do I do that is the question. I am part of a group
>who have volunteered to come to earth to enlighten everyone and help
>bring the earth into the next dimension of existence. Now how is that
>for a serious answer?
>John Winston

    Actually a spokesperson for P&G has confirmed that "John_Winston" works
    in the new products development lab testing a new product "Oral Depends"
    The OD group was a new marketing initiative developed after a marketing
    survey of media-watchers/users displayed a high interest in the Demo-
    cratic and Repulican conventions. :-)


*
*    Opinions do not represent my employer
*
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!greenie
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Discussions on Internet BBS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:34:39 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club
Lines: 40



Attention Internet Users:

There is an Online Service reachable through the Internet that offers
stimulating conversation and entertainment.  We offer Usenet NEWS and other
local message areas.  We also have File Transfers available for many computer
types, with either modem or network file transfer capability (XMODEM, ZMODEM
and FTP).

We have access to several MUDs including Vincents Hollow, and great
multi-player games such as Conquest, a full-screen space battle game,
and other entertainment sections, such as a CB Simulator and IRC Chat.
We host weekly CB conferences on various topics ranging from education
instruction practices to events on current affairs.  People from all over
the world participate in our message areas - bringing the world closer
together to form a global meeting place.

One of our active local message areas is "Skeptics Abound", where we're
presently discussing and debating the existence of "UFO's".  Pop in and
join the conversation.

We offer Internet access to all users, however Commercial users are
restricted to non-NSFnet access.  Only Educational and Research uses
are permitted over the NSFnet.

TELNET, FTP, MAIL, FINGER, and TALK access is available online.

The name of the system is the IDS World Network.  To access the system;

      Modem:  [phone]   (high speed numbers available upon request)
      Internet:      telnet ids.net   [155.212.1.2]

Members of the Education and Research community are invited to participate,
as we are constantly looking to link users from these groups together.  We
are presently involved with connecting the State of Rhode Island and it's
K-12 schools to the Internet, and are interested in sharing experiences
with Internet in the classroom.

Andy, [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13339 alt.alien.visitors:12108 sci.skeptic:36188
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 17:34:57 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Visioners: I would like to thank people for warning me. I'll be
on guard for sure for sure.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!utopia!newkid
From: [e-mail] (newkid)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 18:34:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: U.T.O.P.I.A.
Lines: 16

> JOHN WINSTON is DEAD .... thanx to my KILLFILE.
>
> I think it did a pretty good job or didn't JW post any mail
> within the last 48 hours !?!?!?!???
>
> Anyway, I DON'T MISS HIS MAIL !!!
>
>
> Merry Christmas and a happy new one ..
Well son I think you don't lnow what Xmas is all about, see JW may be a
bit load but hell would I miss him.

Greetings -Newkid

 ---
[e-mail] (newkid)
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!goofy!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!kip2-60.apple.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: This Winston Fellow
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Dec 92 03:13:06 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 13

I find it sad when I log onto usenet and waste valuable time to look at a
newsgroup, only to see that some goober intent of muddling the waters is
the only author of new articles.

I thought intelligent people could be relied on to act more responsibly.
But I suppose not.

******************************************************************************
Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
Apple's)
[e-mail]
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Boxer.
******************************************************************************
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12111 alt.religion.kibology:5488
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: John Winston revealed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:16:28 GMT
Lines: 10

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael_-_Saleeba) writes:
>  I saw these two guys sitting at a computer and pointing and laughing
>at the screen. At first I thought it was my good chum Kibo but they
>didn't have a dog so I guess not.

I don't have a dog... not since Spot fell on his pocket time machine
(ouch) and it went off and sent him back to the days when the Earth was
in liquid form.  Poor Spot!
                            -- K.

Xref: icaen alt.fan.warlord:10440 alt.alien.visitors:12112 alt.music.rush:5115
Newsgroups: alt.fan.warlord,alt.alien.visitors,alt.music.rush
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: RUSH? ...in bed?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.fan.warlord,alt.alien.visitors,alt.music.rush,alt.sex,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.slack
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:23:40 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>[e-mail] (Cristobal Weinholz) writes:
>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russell Michael VanTassell) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>[more rush crap than I care to mention]
>
>Matt!  Why do I have the feeling that this is going to stay in a.f.w and
>mutate - the way 'Re: Bigfootf Spaceman' did in alt.religion.kibology?
>
>Is it because I think Rush fans are as clueless as the readers of
>alt.alien.visitors?

No, no.  Rush fans aren't nearly as clueless as a.a.v readers!

They're still both past the Schwarzchild Radius, though, past which no
enlightenment can penetrate.

P.S.: The Moon is a sphere.  Still.

                            -- K.


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!botgc
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 16:22:42 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject:       letter from Sitchin
Lines: 12

I was very plesed to have received on Dec. 18, 1992 a letter from Z.Sitchin,
author of "The 12th Planet" and other books, in which he writes,"
    Thank you for your recent letter with enclosures. I was not aware until
    now of this newsletter.
    I shall appreciate receiving the previous as well as future issues.."

Reminder to all who have asked me about the newsletter that I publish.
The subscription period ends Jan 15, 1993, and no new subscriptions will be
accepted for a while, once again.

Thanks for your interest,
Vladislav Botvinnik
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13340 alt.alien.visitors:12114 sci.skeptic:36195
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!irishvma!pandrzej
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 15:47:25 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Tunnels #1.
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

I just acquired access to this news group. I find it quite interesting, but
I am amazed at some of the outlandishly preposterous claims made my John
Winston. My conclusion is that he is attempting to discredit this news group.
He must be CIA. ;-)
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12115 alt.religion.kibology:5491
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: John Winston revealed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Dec 92 09:24:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael_-_Saleeba) writes:
>>  I saw these two guys sitting at a computer and pointing and laughing
>>at the screen. At first I thought it was my good chum Kibo but they
>>didn't have a dog so I guess not.
>
> I don't have a dog... not since Spot fell on his pocket time machine
> (ouch) and it went off and sent him back to the days when the Earth was
> in liquid form.  Poor Spot!

Pocket time machine? How many pockets did poor Spot have?
--
Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]                 Int: [phone]
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Xref: icaen alt.fan.warlord:10448 alt.alien.visitors:12116 alt.music.rush:5116
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.warlord,alt.alien.visitors,alt.music.rush,alt.slack
Subject: Re: RUSH? ...in bed?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Dec 92 09:33:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.fan.warlord,alt.alien.visitors,alt.music.rush,alt.slack
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>[e-mail] (Cristobal Weinholz) writes:
>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russell Michael VanTassell) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>>[more rush crap than I care to mention]
>>
>>Matt!  Why do I have the feeling that this is going to stay in a.f.w and
>>mutate - the way 'Re: Bigfootf Spaceman' did in alt.religion.kibology?
>>
>>Is it because I think Rush fans are as clueless as the readers of
>>alt.alien.visitors?
>
> No, no.  Rush fans aren't nearly as clueless as a.a.v readers!
>
> They're still both past the Schwarzchild Radius, though, past which no
> enlightenment can penetrate.

Attention all planets of the solar federation
We have assumed control...

There. Back on topic now. What more can you ask for?

--
Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]                 Int: [phone]
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13342 alt.alien.visitors:12117
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Miracle of 101.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 06:37:51 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25

Subject: Helping Hand.
  Back during the so-called gas crisis I was driving along in my car on
highway 101 an little past Redwood City, Calif. when I saw a person in his
car beside the road. Something told me to stop and check him out. I went up
to the man who was of a certain ethic group and said, "Hey buddy what can I
do for you?"  He told me that he was on his way to San Francisco, he had
been stabbed by his girl friend a while before that time, the person driving
with him had been thrown in jail, the car was out of gas and wouldn't start
and he was hungry. I then told him to junp in the car and we'd get him some
gas.
  I then turned around and took him to my home in the opposite direction.
During this about 30 mile trip I had the uncontrollable urge to tell him
about UFOs. I talked like a jaybird.  When we got home I had some gas I had
saved in a can and found some food for him.
  I filled his stomack with food and his gas tank with some fuel. He then
tried to give me a tool box full of tools but that didn't happen. Right
before he left he said, "You know, sir this is a miracle. Just before you
showed up, I was looking up in the sky and said that if there are any space
people up there would you please send someone  to help me out and also have
the person tell me all about why they are here,  what there purpose is, and
then  you sir showed up."
  I then told him that this happens quite often. The space people find
something they want done and they inspire me to do it.
  So then he went on his way rejoicing.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nwnexus!jhgrud!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: John Winston and his unbelievable load of crap
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: John Winston
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:54:39 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Joe Mastroianni) writes:
>   You cannot make Mr. Winston go away. If you don't like his banter the
> most effective expression of that opinion is to deprive him of his
> audience. If you enjoy his essays continue to comment in a public manner
> and he will be encouraged to continue.

     I don't want Mr. Winston to go away.  I enjoy his posts.  Even if you
assume everything he posts is pure fiction, it is good fiction.

     If everything he says is fictional, and I don't believe that it is, then
he has a great imagination and at least helps me to consider the possibilities
of some of the things that might be in this vast universe.

     We don't know how common intelligent life is throughout the universe.  We
do not have a complete absolute understanding of the laws of physics and thus
we can not say with absolute authority what is possible and what is not.

     I find John's posts fascinating in that it at least allows one to think
about some of the things which might be possible that one might not have
thought about otherwise.

     Don't have such a closed mind!  And if you can't comprehend or enjoy the
material, at least allow it's existance for those who can.

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13343 alt.alien.visitors:12119 sci.skeptic:36201
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: The Passing Of Spot.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 07:40:36 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I am sad to hear of the passing of Spot. I still have
Yogi The Telepathic Dog by myside.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13345 alt.alien.visitors:12120 sci.skeptic:36204
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: UFO Ambassadors.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 08:51:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 78

Subject: Star People.
 A few years back there were a couple of people who were into the
investigation of UFOs and I wonder if any of you know what they are doing
now. The following is some information that was put in a tabloid magazine
about them  about 4 years ago. Please let me know if you know where they are
and what they are doing at the present time. Here we go with the information
about them; A couple with cosmic connections to extraterrestrial beings are
traveling the world as inter-galactic ambassadors, spreading an urgent
message from more intelligent life forms in distant galaxies to the peole of
Earth.
  They claim the powers that-be are desperately trying to keek quiet the
information that could save the world.
  Michael and Aurora El-Legion say they are Star People.  Beings from other
planets in earthly embodiment.  They are volunteers on a lifetime mission to
help people understand the existence of UFOs and how to interact with higher
life forms from outer space.
  Since the Freeedom of Information Act in 1983 forced the CIA and other
govenment agencies to open their books on UFO sightings and encounters, the
El-Legions say, their unearthly claims have been substantiated by over 7,000
pages of documentation.
  But they have plenty of personal experience to draw upon, too.
  "I have conscious memory of beaming down to Earth into my mother's womb,"
Michael says.
"When I was 6, I was taken aboard a cosmic craft after, I fell into the ocean
off a pier, Star People are promised protection prior to incarnating on
Earth.  We are constantly watched by beings  who would rescue us from harm.
  The Bible refers to these beings as guardian angels.  The ancient gods and
goddesses of Greek mythodogy are also such beings.
  Aurora tells how her life was saved by extraterrestrial protectors when she
was 16.
  "I was about to crash my boyfriend's car in rushhour traffic on the
freeway," she recalls. "All I could do was lie on the floor and pray as the
car went out of control."
  "When I awake, the car was parked at a gas station, unharmed. A space ship
had teleported me off the road to safety."
  In 1979, Michael says, he met Korton, diretor of space communication for the
Inter-Galactic Confederation of Planets.
  He says this is a group of billions of planets from all galaxies that send
out ships which travel physically through various worlds and dimensions,
sharing their technology."
 Earth has not been invited to join the group, Michael says, because of the
hostile nature of its leaders, though it is constantly being visited by
space travelers.
  "UFOs have hovered above key military bases  and shut down all their
high-tech equipment," he claims. In 1980 they contacted a British officer
who gave them permission to land here.
  When word of this reached higher-ups, the official suddenly began receiving
all kinds of threats, and the ship never landed."
  Aurora explains; "The leaders of the world are afraid of losing control over
people to extraterrestrials. These beings offer a higher way of life in all
areas-medicine, science, spiritualism-that threatien current governments."
  "It is our job to alert people to the cosmic message," Michael adds.
  These beings have been around for millions of years." They know there has
never been a planet that produced nuclear weapons that didn't end up
destroying itself.
  Six thousand years ago there was a planet located between Mars and jupiter
that blew itself up.  The explosion cause the Earth's axis to shift,
creating the Great Flood.  The planet itself became part of an astroid belt.
  The El-Legions claim UFOS are cnstantly hovering inside cloud banks in the
Earth's atmosphere and can materialize at will.  They offer salvation for
mankind, according to Michael and Aurora.
  When the planet is ready to destruct, those individuals on a high enough
vibrational level will be transported to safety aboard these spacecrafts,
  The others, those who think and act only for themselves in a materialistic
or evil way, will be left to perish when the earth's axis shifts again, and
the planet turns upside down.
  In the meantime, the El-Legions continue to tour the world for their cause,
lecturing and pleading for other countries to lift the veil of secrecy they
charge covers the existence of UFOs and extraterrestrials on Earth. By
Christopher Luke.
Source of information: Some unremembered tabloid magazine that I don't have
the name of.
This is me (JW) speaking now. A few things have changed in the last few year
but a few of their points that they made are still true.
John Winston



Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13346 alt.alien.visitors:12121 sci.skeptic:36208
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!convex!schumach
From: [e-mail] (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: UFO Ambassadors.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:08:59 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 23

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>  They claim the powers that-be are desperately trying to keek quiet the
>information that could save the world.

Humans plotting to destroy the Earth for their own gain, eh?

[information utterly vital to the survival of our planet and all it's peoples
deleted]


>Source of information: Some unremembered tabloid magazine that I don't have
>the name of.

Spoken in true Net fashion.


>This is me (JW) speaking now. A few things have changed in the last few year
>but a few of their points that they made are still true.

Could we declare JW a living national treasure? Future generations would never
believe it if they couldn't see it.


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13348 alt.alien.visitors:12122 alt.religion.kibology:5494
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: PG-13 UFO Report.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 12:44:27 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 57

Subject: PG-13 UFO Report.
  This report is rated PG-13 because it contains subjects and words unfit for
minors and miners also. I hope I don't offend any ladies by telling about
the following incident. This was found in an old tabloid report called
Examiner. Here we go with the information; UFOs are from Venus and the dark
side of the moon, according to a retired musician, television and radio
personality.
  And the surprising secret of their amazing origin was revealed to drummer
Andrew P. Napoleon by a stunningly beautiful Venusian woman.
  The drummer-who has played at top Las Vegas nightclubs-provided the Examiner
with an exclusive series of drawings of aliens he has met with and UFOs he
has seen.
  The aliens are incredibly similar to earthlings in appearance.
  "Man is destroying man and UFOs are trying to save our planet," he said
during an interview at his home in Bayonne, New Jersey.
  "Radiation from our deadly experiments with the atom and the hydrogen bomb
is reaching their planet and irritating them."
  Napoleon, 66, claims dozens of contacts with visitors from the stars, and
has mapped the flight of entire squadrons of UFOs.
  Venusians and other extraterrestrials from the dark side of the moon who
have contacted Napoleon, put a high value on their health, he said. And the
Venusians are vegetarians.
 "I have been chosen by the space people to spread the word of their coming,
Napoleon said.
  "They look for people in the arts to work with because we are better able to
communicate other-worldly experinces."
  The drummer's most chilling contact with the space beings occurred in the
late 1950s on the desert at Sunrise Mountain just outside Las Vegas where he
was working in a club.
  It was there at about 3 a.m., Napoleon revealed, where he was startled by
the shocking vision of a pair of shapely feminine legs forming in the
starlighted darkness.
  The full body of the amazing topless woman quickly materalized, and Napoleon
was facing the sultry fivefoot siren he later learned was from the planet
Venus.
  "She was the most beautiful woman I've ever seen, and that's saying
something when your've been playing Las Vegas," he confided.
  Napoleon said the men from Venus are as handsome as the women are beautiful.
  "One of the men had milk white skin, blond hair, and was a trim six-footer,"
said the contactee.
  "He looked like a perfect Adonis."
  Napoleon has written and illustrated his own book; Above All, and tells of
the hundreds of spaceships crisscrossing the skies.
  Most of them are from Venus and use the dark side of the moom as a way
station between their home planet and Earth.
  Incredibly, one of the UFOs he observed was a (56)-story leviathon that
silently settled on the roof of a posh Las Vegas hotel.
  Inhabitants of the city were not yet emotionally prepared to accept the
reality of a UFO visit however, and unconsciously tuned out the startling
vision. Napolean expained.
  So there you have it folks. This is me J.W talking now. Space people are
everywhere. By careful you don't run in to one of them. BTW does anyone know
who the person called Adonis was originally? Please let me know I'm curious.
Just send or post your answer to Curious
Source of information: Some tabloid magazine about 3 years old, called
Examiner..
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13349 alt.alien.visitors:12123 sci.skeptic:36212
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!gld
From: [e-mail] (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Think
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Network News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:33:09 GMT
Lines: 17

[e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: Well I read now that some of you are starting to think.
>That's a good sign. Reminds we of the movie 2001.
>John Winston.

I just stumbled in here to find 1/3rd of the articles originating from
Mr. John Winston and a debate over him ... methinks (-; Mr. Winston is
somebody's Ph.D. thesis in AI, with parts of Eliza hooked up to a large
database of UFO and parapsycological literature plus transcriptions of
every one of Steve Wright's HBO Comedy Specials.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> [e-mail]         Support NAFTA
> [e-mail]             Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13350 alt.alien.visitors:12124 alt.religion.kibology:5496
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!db.TC.Cornell.EDU!mdw
From: [e-mail] (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: PG-13 UFO Report.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: db.tc.cornell.edu
Organization: The Linux Inquisition, Propaganda Division
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:48:19 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Subject: PG-13 UFO Report.
>  This report is rated PG-13 because it contains subjects and words unfit for
>minors and miners also. I hope I don't offend any ladies by telling about
>the following incident. This was found in an old tabloid report called
>Examiner.
 ^^^^^^^^

Uhrrmmmm..... John, the "Examiner" isn't a tabloid.
Needless to say, I was offended deeply.

mdw

--
Matt Welsh     [e-mail]     Cornell Theory Center
  "It's a Katana, ya Midwestern Computer Geek." --Tom Payne
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13354 alt.alien.visitors:12125 sci.skeptic:36215
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ch981
From: [e-mail] (Tony Alicea)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Think
Date: 25 Dec 1992 01:23:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Gary L Dare) says:
>I just stumbled in here to find 1/3rd of the articles originating from
>Mr. John Winston and a debate over him ... methinks (-; Mr. Winston is
>

An attention starved, arrogant pseudo-intellectual without much formal
education.


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13357 alt.alien.visitors:12126 sci.skeptic:36222
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Wishes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 07:32:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear People On Earth: I would like at this time to wish a merry Christmas
on this christmas day to Satan and God be sure and take care of yourself
because if anything happens to you we're all sunk.
 Thanks to all the comments from everyone, good, bad and whathaveyou.
I now propose that we seal the aura of the Earth so that only good
vibrations and thoughts can come into  the area of the earth. Now
how is that for a project? I can spell the word (keep). You people
are just too  intelligent to me.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13358 alt.alien.visitors:12127 alt.religion.kibology:5498
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 07:40:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Creatures Great And Small: I believe you will find the Examiner
I was talking about is the tabloid magazine called the National
Examiner and not the San Francisco Examiner.
Merry Chistmas to all and to all a good night, and as Tiny Tim once
said God bless us everyone.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 08:12:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Researchers: After reading some of that over 400K bytes of in-
formation that was sent to me by Kumar I have come to the conclusion
that the situation might not be as bad as I originally thought with
the Grays coming here and interacting  with us (is that a long sentence
or what?) I tend to agree with Don Showen and believe that maybe all
of this interaction will work out to the good of the people on earth.
Words to live by.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12129 alt.conspiracy:21112 sci.skeptic:36223
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 08:16:40 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
yet. The battle is not won yet.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: EMF Vehicle Construction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 08:38:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I copied all that information now I'll see if I can figure
it out.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: QUESTION: This Group
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 08:43:39 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Folks: Serious folks who tell the truth don't last long.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Las Vegas UFO Congress
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 08:50:53 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear People: Pardon me I thought the question was referring to the
Berkeley Syjmposium not the Las Vegas one. Denise may have not gone to
that one.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:01:35 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear People: I have read the comments and will give them consideration.
Thanks for your support (as the wine seller commercial says).
Serious John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Are they on alt.alien.visitors ??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:08:01 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Pierre: You've got my attention please tell us more.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13360 alt.alien.visitors:12135 sci.skeptic:36225
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!actcnews!sun1x!scottb
From: [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn)
Subject: Re: The Passing Of Spot.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 16:08:43 GMT
Lines: 12

[e-mail] writes:
:> Dear Folks: I am sad to hear of the passing of Spot. I still have
:> Yogi The Telepathic Dog by myside.
:> John Winston.

What the hell does this have to do with alt.alien.visitors? or any of the
other news groups that it is cross posted to?
--
Disclaimer:  I didn't do it!  Nobody saw me do it!  You can't prove anything!
             My opinions are my own.   They do not reflect anyone/thing else!
\/       preferred        \/
[e-mail]            |           [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: abductions ???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:12:27 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References:  <1992Dec21.4962.12289@dosgate>
Lines: 6

Dear Question Asker: If you've got the patience to wade through over
400k bytes of information about the Greys then let me know by E-mail
and I'll send it to you. The whole world may be over before you get
it all read. I still haveen't read it all.
John Winston. This information explains why they ar here and why they
are doing what they are doing.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:18:55 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Ones: Thanks very much. Things couldn't be working out better
even if I paid you. So thanks again.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12138 alt.conspiracy:21115 sci.skeptic:36226
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!ivem.ucsd.edu!spl
From: [e-mail] (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Date: 25 Dec 1992 17:34:24 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
>yet. The battle is not won yet.
>John Winston.

zzzzz-z-zzzzzzz-z-z-z-z-zzzz-z-z-z-z

                            spl

--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- [phone] -- [e-mail]
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
Where is the summer, the unimaginable
Zero summer?                 - T.S. Eliot, "Little Gidding"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Winston Fellow
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:23:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Folks: It is good to hear these comments. They help.
This Winston Fellow.
Xref: icaen alt.fan.warlord:10457 alt.alien.visitors:12140 alt.music.rush:5119 alt.sex:87351 alt.rush-limbaugh:14554
Newsgroups: alt.fan.warlord,alt.alien.visitors,alt.music.rush,alt.sex,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.slack
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: RUSH? ...in bed?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 17:47:17 GMT
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>[e-mail] (Cristobal Weinholz) writes:
>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russell Michael VanTassell) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>>[more rush crap than I care to mention]
>>
>>Matt!  Why do I have the feeling that this is going to stay in a.f.w and
>>mutate - the way 'Re: Bigfootf Spaceman' did in alt.religion.kibology?
>>
>>Is it because I think Rush fans are as clueless as the readers of
>>alt.alien.visitors?
>
>No, no.  Rush fans aren't nearly as clueless as a.a.v readers!
>
>They're still both past the Schwarzchild Radius, though, past which no
>enlightenment can penetrate.

Do you mean -inside- the Schwartzchild radius? Past sounds kinda like
'outside'.

>P.S.: The Moon is a sphere.  Still.
>
>                            -- K.

Rich

[e-mail]


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13361 alt.alien.visitors:12141 alt.religion.kibology:5499
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Adonis.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 11:34:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 32

1>+2






Dear Everybody: I just received this
information from
a friend of mine regarding Adonis.
Dear Great One: You are a treasure.  Adonis was  in  Greek  Mythology  a
beautiful youth beloved by Aphrodite and Persephone.  He was born of the
incestuous union of Smyrna and Cinyras, king of Cyprus.  Aphrodite  left
Adonis  in the care of Persephone who raised him and made him her lover.
Aphrodite later demanded the youth for herself but Persephone was unwilling
to relinquish him.  When Adonis was gored to death by a boar, both
Persephone and Aphrodite claimed him.   Zeus  settled  the  dispute  by
arranging  for  Adonis  to  spend  the  summer  months above ground with
Aphrodite and the winter  half  of  the  year  with  Persephone  in  the
underground.   Adonis'  death  and  ressurection, symbolic of the yearly
cycle of vegetation, were widely celebrated in  ancient  Greece  in  the
midsummer  festival  Adonia.  Source of information: The New Illustrated
Encyclopedia 1979.
So this is me (JW) speaking now, Betty, You are a fount of
information.
John Winston.uth for herself but Persephone was unwil-
ling  to relinquish him.  When Adon2w2

%4
B
0Roman 10cpi Adonis'  death  and  ressurection, symbolic of the yearly
cycle of vegetation, were widely celebrated in  a
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 01:52:46 GMT
Lines: 149


Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers - Destiny Matrix 1
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:35:19 GMT


Anyone reading this has my permission to re-post on other relevant
conferences e.g. ufos etc. However, all rights researved for commercial use.

Jack Sarfatti.
POB 26548
San Francisco, CA
94126


 "Rights"|North American rights
} ) {author|Jack Sarfatti}, {date \@ "Dec"|1992}

{Title|DESTINY MATRIX} Part 1
by
{Author|Jack Sarfatti}
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking
at the stars.  - Oscar Wilde

The ultimate object of magic in all ages was and is to obtain control of
the sources of life.
- W. B. Yeats

OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 is a TOP SECRET Research and Development/Intelligence
Operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United
States. Operations of the project are carried out under the control of
Majestic-12 (MAJIC-12) Group
- Howard Blum, Out There,(p.234)

Such life will often be ultra-intelligent, or it might have been supplanted
by ultra-intelligent machines or biomachines or disembodied fields of some
kind. ... The entities will have perfected telepathy if telepathy is
possible at all, and, if telepathic signals can be propagated with infinite
speed, the whole society of ultra-intelligent entities can be in continual
instantaneous communication and so the individuals can act as cells of a
vast brain, or integrated immortal consciousness."
- I. J. Good


Overture
"Ah sweet mystery of life, at last I've found you. Now at last I know the
meaning of it all!"

This book is the libretto of my Quixotic Quest to understand the meaning of
existence and all our lives in terms of the astounding breakthroughs in new
physics.  I present a new theory of history that involves time travel.

I sing true songs of my involvement with famous people, sex, drugs,
murder, karma, cloak and dagger intrigue, betrayal by friends and lovers.
Like the Scarlet Pimpernel, I reveal my real role in the covert PSI WARS
intelligence operations in San Francisco and at Esalen in Big Sur that
contributed to the destruction of the Soviet Union.

The title "Destiny Matrix" is a play on "Density Matrix".  The density
matrix in quantum mechanics describes the web of quantum connections that
can not only spread across all of space but also all of time from the
moment of creation to the future Omega Point2.

The mind is a complex web of quantum connections within quantum connections
spanning many levels of organization of matter from quarks to galaxies.

The quantum connection4 is a communication channel that exists above and
beyond space-time.  The "telepathic" intuitive messages transmitted on the
quantum connection do not require direct propagation of energy within
space-time.  The meaning of this idea will be developed in this book.

After almost a half century of thinking about the meaning of existence I
have come to the following hypotheses which can be tested by experiments in
physics laboratories.  The universe did not come into being randomly by
chance.  The universe is created by intelligent design.  There is a God,
but that God evolves from us.  That is the deep meaning of the Bible's
story of Abraham's Covenant with God.

God travels back in time6 to engineer the Big Bang explosion creating time
in an amazingly precise way that ensures that we and God will evolve.
Man's role in the universe is vital.  We are part of the quantum process
that brings the universe into being.

We are about to develop an advanced super-technology of powerful energy
sources8, ultra-intelligent artificial life forms and time travelling star
ships.   This book will explain some of the basic ideas of the coming
super-technology

Causes and effects are not like points on a line of time with causes always
before effects.  Causes and effects lie on circles of time.  If you look on
a small piece of the circle, causes can be in the future of their effects.
When a cause is in the future of its effect we have meaning, purpose and
destiny.

Indeed the structure of cause and effect is similar to Ezekial's "wheels
within wheels".  Imagine a circle. Imagine another circle within that
circle. Keep on going.  This is a fractal structure.

If I am right it will be possible to make precognition machines that will
be able to receive messages transmitted from the future.  Psychic
researchers suggest that precognition is an innate property of the human
mind. If these machines work, they are right.

If you receive a true message from the future you are caught in the web of
the destiny matrix.  Feel the kiss of the Spider Goddess.  You cannot
change the future of that universe.  Other parallel universes also exist in
which there are copies of yourself.  A successful attempt to change the
future or the past will split the universe into parallel universes.

Our consciousness is quantum computer software.  Our bodies are hardware.
The physics of consciousness is the study of the mind-matter interaction.
Once we understand that interaction we will be able to move from body to
body.  The problem is similar to loading a computer program on to a hard
disc.  You will be able to experience other people's thoughts and feelings
as if they were your own.  For example, the Rabbi Yeshua known to the world
as Jesus Christ's physical body was born from Mary but His Divine Mind came
from the Once and Future God through the quantum connection.   The quantum
connection (i.e., the Holy Ghost) is a communication channel beyond space-
time.  In this precise technical sense God incarnated into a man.

I suggest that quantum jumps in the evolution of the species and in our
civilization10 are caused by the intervention of time travellers from the
future who are ensuring their own coming into being.   I will argue later
that the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed so quickly and that both
Boris Yeltsin and Mikail Gorbachev have been under the influence of the
Esalen Institute in Big Sur (where I started the Physics Consciousness
Seminars11) is evidence for this view.

I am suggesting that precognition is essential to all creative mental
processes.  Mozart said he simply wrote down music that he heard or
saw...He was having vivid precognitions of his future music which literally
created itself...Wagner spoke of his music as music from the future.
Nietzsche wrote of the "self-rolling wheel".  The creative genius13 is able
to accurately decode important messages telepathically transmitted on the
quantum connection from the future.  Poets through the ages sing of Divine
Inspiration by the Muse.  I am simply suggesting a new physics model for
their images.

Before we descend to the gutter, and we will have lots of titilating nasty
gossip and seemingly paranoid conspiracy theories later on.  Rest ye from
from the ridiculous for awhile. Ascend to the Divine.  Let me play Virgil
to your Dante on a short trip to the stars (ad astra) and beyond to the
Mind of God in the land of imaginary time.


to be continued

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12143 alt.religion.kibology:5501
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!newsserver.technet.sg!nuscc!matmcinn
From: [e-mail] (Brett McInnes)
Subject: Re: John Winston revealed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 01:54:01 GMT
Lines: 6

[e-mail] (James Kibo Parry) writes:
:
: I don't have a dog... not since Spot fell on his pocket time machine
: (ouch) and it went off and sent him back to the days when the Earth was
: in liquid form.  Bald Spot!
:
Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:21119 alt.alien.visitors:12144
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 1*
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 04:33:22 GMT
Lines: 117


Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-
theories,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
From: [e-mail] (Cameron Randale Bass)
Subject: Re: Physics: The Good, The Bad, and The Bogus
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:43:18 GMT
Lines: 73

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack
Sarfatti) writes:
>
>"Make my day!" Dirty Harry, Clint Eastwood.
>
>Sarfatti replies to:comments between *...*
>
>Come to think of it, I remember one or two less than complimentary remarks
>about one Jack Sarfatti in there...
>
>*Maybe so, but at one point referring to my assertion that quantum
>connection communication is possible, Gardner writes:
>"I know of no other physicist who thinks it will work. If it does,
Sarfatti
>will become one of the greatest physicists of all time."  Indeed,
Gardner's colleague Marcello Truzzi writes of me: (CAPS are not in the
original Truzzi text)

..."I am a sociologist concerned with the way the scientific community
accepts and rejects new theories and data claims and am also the Director
of the Center for Scientific Anomalies Research. I am particularly familiar
with Dr. Sarfatti's work because I have been researching a piece contracted
for OMNI, a science magazine, on the interface between quantum physicists
(especially those interested in nonlocality and the role of consciousness
in the measurement process) and parapsychology. Dr. Sarfatti's theories
have implications for the "paraphysics" research being conducted at SRI
International, the Mind Science Foundation, the Institute for Advanced
Studies at Austin, and the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research
Project. I expect to prominently feature him and his theories in my OMNI
article.

Since I am not a physicist, I cannot fully evaluate Dr. Sarfatti's
theories. But certain features of his approach have impressed me. In
particular, (caps not in original) I ADMIRE THAT HE HAS ALWAYS EMPHASIZED
THE TESTABILITY AND FALSIFIABILITY OF HIS HYPOTHESES AND URGED THEIR
SUBMISSION TO EMPIRICAL TESTS. UNLIKE MANY OTHERS WORKING ON RADICAL
SCIENTIFIC THEORIES, DR. SARFATTI HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR ABOUT WHAT EVIDENCE
WOULD SHOW THAT HIS IDEAS WERE WRONG AND HAS TRIED VERY HARD TO GET
EXPERIMENTALISTS TO CONDUCT THE APPROPRIATE TESTS.

Dr. Sarfatti is very much an individualist, but I have always found him
highly articulate and a warm personality...Obviously he has gone his own
way (CERTAINLY AN ACADEMICALLY UNCONVENTIONAL PATH) in finding support for
HIS WORK ON A THEORY WITH EXTRAORDINARY POTENTIAL FOR SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY. In the process he has attracted the attention of a wide
spectrum of persons both within the science community AND GOVERNMENT.
Clearly, he has taken A LARGE RISK IN PURSUING HIS HIGHLY NOVEL, CREATIVE,
AND CONTROVERSIAL WORK; BUT HE HAS ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THAT HE IS PLAYING FOR
VERY LARGE STAKES. If he is right .... the rewards would be immense."
     In the interests of complete coverage, Martin Gardiner says p. 188

           For many paraphysicists the EPR paradox suggests that
           quantum information can be transferred instantaneously (or
almost
           so) from any part of the universe to any other, otherwise
           how does one particle 'know' what happens when its twin
           is measured?  (relativity theory is not violated because no
           energy is transferred, only information.)  This is the view
           of paraphysicist Jack Sarfatti, who heads a small San Francisco
           organization called The Physics/Consciousness Research Group,
           initially financed by Werner Erhard of est. (Sarfatti and Erhard
           have since had a violent falling out, and Sarfatti is devoting
           much of his time to attacking Erhard as a native 'fascist.')
           For Sarfatti's far-out views see his article 'The physical roots
           of consciousness' in Jeffrey Mislove's wild book, _The Roots of
           Consciousness_ (published by Random House in a fit of absence of
           mind), and an interview with Sarfatti in _Oui_, March 1979.
           Last year (1978 I believe, crb) Sarfatti applied for a patent
           (disclosure number 071165) on a device he hopes can send faster-
           than-light messages to any part of the universe.

     In the interests of fairness...

>Martin Gardner also wrote:
>
>"Sarfatti is a leading theoretician among U.S. paraphysicists ... he began
>to have 'odd subliminal experiences' ... He found he could practise
>'automatic writing' ...and several of his published scientific papers ...
>were written that way ....Think of the world as an immense, intricate
>puppet show. Everything has a 'string' attached to it, and the strings are
>all held by the Great Puppeteer ... its infinite strings provide a
>connectedness that permits the transfer of information at instantaneous
>speeds through space and time .... There are no instant signals in the
>sense that energy is transferred... It is Sarfatti's persuasion that the
>human mind has natural detectors of deBroglie waves on the quantum
>molecular level. 'The introduction of this kind of direct quantum
>information into waking consciousness often appears as paranormal ..."
>excerpted from Martin Gardner's "Magic and Paraphysics" in Science Good
Bad and Bogus (1981) before the model now on the WELL and before the book
by
>Barrow and Tipler The Anthropic Cosmological Principle.

      He also wrote in response to your press release about Uri Geller
      "Note the clear implication in Sarfatti's release that having his
      doctorate in physics made him specially qualified to rule out
      deception".  The whole tone of the article is skeptical, and some
      of the things you have stated above are actually quoted in the
      article as your own words, the rest are portrayed as your
      ideas, not Gardner's.   I wouldn't say the article is any kind
      of stunning validation.

                              dale bass
--
C. R. Bass                                          [e-mail]
Department of Mechanical,
--MORE--(97%)     Aerospace and Nuclear Engineering
PS Bass is evidently a disinformation agent of the Gardner Illuminati - note
he is not a physicist but an aerospace engineer!
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:40:38 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Lines: 8

Well, I think it is come time to start a moderated Ufology group. Winston
is scaring away an relevent discussions.

Does anyone know how to set up a moderated group?

-Garrett


Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12146 alt.conspiracy:21123 sci.skeptic:36231
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:45:32 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
> yet. The battle is not won yet.
> John Winston.

This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.

It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.

Just today this idiot has posted over 15 2 or 3 line posts of meaningless
drivel.

-Garrett




Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13364 alt.alien.visitors:12147 sci.skeptic:36234
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Dec 92 14:21:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 6

Dear Earth Environs. I am glatful for the exlanation of Kibo's Spot
passage to the next dimension. I should have said, You people are too
intelligent for me.
  Lo and behold I take my leave of you and will pass a few days in
the desert.
John Wiinston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13365 alt.alien.visitors:12148
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: To The Desert I Go.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 06:27:04 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

To All People Of Noble Persuasion.
I believe I wil now go to the particular Desert that you are aware of
and do what know I'm going to do.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13366 alt.alien.visitors:12149 alt.religion.kibology:5506
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Desert.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 06:30:18 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Lord willing and if the creek don't rise, I'm going to the desert for
a few days.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12150 alt.conspiracy:21124 sci.skeptic:36235
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 06:47:51 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear One and All: I believe that you will find that the Great And
Noble Kibo understands me quite well.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Debunkeritis:  A Partial List
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Dec 92 06:21:02 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 84

THE VARIETIES OF DEBUNKERITIS:  A PARTIAL LIST

Compiled by Jerome Clark, December 1992.

Reprinted with permission on ParaNet Information Services

DEBUNKERITIS:   The  inability  of  some  leading  self-described
"skeptics" to bring rational discourse to the debate on UFOs  and
other anomalous claims.

McCarthy's disease:  An irresistible compulsion to intimate  that
ufologists may be harming America by doing things that  America's
enemies also seek to accomplish, such as make the extraordinarily
irresponsible  claim that "our government cannot be trusted"  and
that  it  sometimes "lies" and "falsifies," just  as  the  Soviet
Union  has  charged.  Further symptoms call for the  sufferer  to
express his outrage "as a patriotic citizen" and to speak of Nazi
Party meetings in discussions of meetings of ufologists, as if to
imply  the  two were somehow comparable.  The sufferer  may  also
threaten to sue when someone reveals that sufferer has  expressed
such sentiments; see bully's disease below.

Snooper's   disease:    A  helpless  inability  to   resist   (1)
investigating the personal lives of those with whom the  sufferer
disagrees;  or (2) encouraging others to do so; or  (3)  bringing
personal  matters  otherwise deemed irrelevant  into  debates  on
issues related to UFOs or like phenomena.

Apocalyptist's  disease:  The strange view that popular  interest
in anomalies and the paranormal threatens not only science, which
most would regard as hugely powerful entity in any modern society
which  depends  on  sophisticated  technology  for  its  economic
survival,  but also the continued existence of  civilization  and
democracy.   Further  symptom:  the belief that  those  who  hold
unconventional  views  comprise such a clear and  present  danger
that  hundreds of thousands of dollars must be raised as  rapidly
as  possible  to  construct  a Taj  Mahal  of  debunkeritis  near
Buffalo, New York.

Party-Line disease:  Utter failure to understand that "scientific
investigation  of claims of the paranormal" - or anything else  -
requires  vigorous internal debate, criticism, and policing,  not
just  the bashing of persons who perversely hold views  one  does
not like; nor does it require emotional and desperate defenses of
allies  even in the face of brazen, occasionally  even  criminal,
misconduct.   Within  the  UFO-debunking  subcult,  for  example,
sufferers compete to see who can express more absolute  agreement
than the next with the dictates of the subcult's leader, even (or
particularly)  when  he  is  exhibiting  symptoms  of  McCarthy's
disease,  snooper's  disease, or other  afflictions.   A  related
symptom:    Sometimes,  when  the  dictate  in  question  is   so
outrageous  that it cannot be specifically defended,  either  the
sufferer's allies will stonewall rather than dissent or they will
attack,  typically without mentioning the dictate at  issue,  the
individual  who  has  complained  about  it;  see,  for  example,
Skeptical Inquirer, Summer 1987, p. 334.

Crackpot's  disease:   Inability to  write  without  significant,
sometimes  total, recourse to bold or enhanced type and  italics,
underlined, or capitalized words, or - frequently -  combinations
thereof in the same phrase or sentence.

Bully's  disease:   Tendency  to threaten  those  with  whom  one
disagrees  with legal suits when all else fails to silence  them.
One  prominent  debunkeritis  sufferer hurls  or  hints  at  such
threats so often that the total may be impossible to calculate.

Demonologist's disease:  The conviction that those who  criticize
an  organization with which you are associated are "evil."   This
last  word  is  not a paraphrase.  It is an exact  quote  from  a
pronouncement of a leading debunkeritis sufferer.

Stroker's   disease:    The  pathetic  need  to  belong   to   an
organization whose purpose is to continually assure its  members,
associates, and subscribers of how rational they are.

END

PARANET FILENAME:  DEBUNK.TXT

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13367 alt.alien.visitors:12152 sci.skeptic:36237
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!wrldlnk!usenet
From: "James F. Tims" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: UFO Ambassadors.
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:09:49 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)
Lines: 40

>DATE:   Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:08:59 GMT
>FROM:   Richard A. Schumacher <[e-mail]>
>
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>  They claim the powers that-be are desperately trying to keek quiet the
>>information that could save the world.
>
>Humans plotting to destroy the Earth for their own gain, eh?
>
>[information utterly vital to the survival of our planet and all it's peoples
>deleted]
>

It's ok.  J-W will probably repost it in a previous life.

>>Source of information: Some unremembered tabloid magazine that I don't have
>>the name of.
>
>Spoken in true Net fashion.
>

Of course, he withholds all the unremembered tabloids that he does have the
names of.  How convenient.

>>This is me (JW) speaking now. A few things have changed in the last few year
>>but a few of their points that they made are still true.
>
>Could we declare JW a living national treasure? Future generations would never
>believe it if they couldn't see it.
>

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   [e-mail]
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C----> A bubble memory archive site, perhaps?
;;| >-  `.__),;;

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13368 alt.alien.visitors:12153 alt.religion.kibology:5507
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!concert!samba!sunSITE!jem
From: [e-mail] (Jonathan Magid)
Subject: Re: Desert.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 16:45:52 GMT
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Lord willing and if the creek don't rise, I'm going to the desert for
>a few days.
>John Winston.

Be careful.  Remember all the trouble that has resulted from that old
Jewish couple going out into the desert 5000 years ago...

"And several religions later"
jem.
--
Jonathan Magid     [e-mail]       sunSITE Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36241 alt.paranormal:6208 alt.conspiracy:21130 alt.alien.visitors:12154
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re: Crocker's suggestion on Wolff's charge of crackpottery.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:44:27 GMT
Lines: 12


OK, Steve Crocker has made some good points and I will not proceed further
with the lawsuit and contacting the fool's employer - but one these days
"Pow! a psychic whammy - a telepathic pop! Beware the Wrath of SAR!
Sweet Dreams, Dave! Who do the quantum voodoo? Control of
action-at-a-distance is quite practical in may cultures, African, Haitian,
Brazilian,Aborigine, Shaman - the use of dream time, astral projection,
out of body, precognitive remote viewing etc. Of course, it's all cargo
cult pseudo science - don't believe it. But remember Neils Bohr kept a
horseshoe over his door anyway. I suggest that Dave stock up on silver
bullets, wooden crosses, wooden stakes and lots and lots of garlic!
.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Saturday, 26 Dec 1992 17:23:20 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Moderated Newsgroup
Lines: 7

I too propose that a moderated newsgroup be formed.  It seems that
John Winston gets a kick out of annoying people.  It has also been
proposed that we just ignore him.  This obviously hasn't worked since
many people are still publicly responded to his net posts.  So let's
form a new MODERATED newsgroup.
Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36243 alt.paranormal:6211 alt.conspiracy:21137 alt.alien.visitors:12156
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!eff!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley
From: [e-mail] (Seth "Gimpy" Bradley)
Subject: Re: Crocker's suggestion on Wolff's charge of crackpottery.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Intel Corporation
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:47:03 GMT
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
>
>action-at-a-distance is quite practical in may cultures, African, Haitian,
>Brazilian,Aborigine, Shaman - ...

Please present documented evidence of action-at-a-distance occuring that
can not be explained by psychological effects upon the person or persons
being acted on.  I have never seen such evidence, and if you have some
I would enjoy seeing it.  It would be especially instructive to see a
case where it was demonstrated under controlled conditions, with an
expert in trickery being in attendence.
--
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: [e-mail]   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12157 alt.conspiracy:21143 sci.skeptic:36245
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!kksys.com!wd0gol!newave!john
From: [e-mail] (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Dec 92 03:13:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN
Lines: 20

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]-state:
> In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]:
> > Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly yet.

> This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project.

> Just today this idiot has posted over 15 2 or 3 line posts of meaningless
> drivel.

At least he keeps his useless drivel postings short--unlike most of the
flames that Winston receives.  I like reading about the UFO conspiracy
theories--and I hope that someone someday discovers the grand unified
UFO conspiracy that ties all of the various stories togather.

-john-

--
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III        [phone]            [e-mail]
Newave Communications, Ltd.                ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!S1MBM
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 12:55:40 GMT
Lines: 48

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes:
>Hi Guys!
>
>Not long ago I said goodbye to this group, and quite a few people mailed me
>to convince me to return.  Well, I'm back (for those who are interested)...
>and I've got a few things I want to make perfectly clear!
>
>With regards to JW and friends....  He is the cause of so many people
>wanting to leave this group.  There are two possible reasons for this:
>
>1) He is being paid to destroy this group, and make as many of us leave as
>   possible
>2) He is a giant DICK-WAD!
>
>I personally believe it is number 2.
>
>WHAT WE SHOULD DO is to *totally* ignore him and his friends.  Don't even
>respond or read his articles, or anything related to him (apart from this
>article! ;-)  He is really destroying this group, and destroying the really
>good articles that are floating around here.
>
>JW if you are reading, please stop posting all your unrelated crap to this
>group.  If it doesn't involve Aliens or UFO's, you shouldn't even be posting
>here!  Get a life and stop ruining serious research with your total and utter
>bull shit.
>
>I'm glad I got that out of my system....not that JW would listen!  It's a
>free world.  We even let the mentally deficient have a say! ;-)
>
>Special thanks to Len Bucuvalas....much appreciated, my friend.
>
>Let's see some serious posts again!
>
>Jamie
>(apologies for the obscenities...but I am pretty pissed off!)
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  ([e-mail], [e-mail])                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
>         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***



It strikes me as more than a little ironic that folks would get off this
particular list because of an alien presence among you (JW).

A skeptic, but usually not a smartass,
michael mcdonald
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!seanews!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: Check this out...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Spooks
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 02:22:49 GMT
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Max Elliot) writes:
>
>   Well, I suggested a few postings back that maybe our buddy JW
>   was a spook, and guess what happened.... I was e-mailed by a
>   man from the US Army Research Labs, who has never to my knowledge
>   posted in this group, wanting to know *why* it was I thought JW
>   was on the take!  Pretty fishy huh?  Well, whether JW *is* on the
>   take or not is irrelevant.  The effect is the same. I suggested
>   in my last post that people learn to use the kill file and force
>   themselves to ignore JW.  I will reiterate this recommendation:
>
>     Put JW in your kill file and be done with it.
>
>   I *never* read any of his posts any more, and when I accidentally
>   begin to read one which is a *reply* to one of his, I chuck it
>   in a nanosecond. I encourage *all* of you to follow suit and leave
>   this JW in the dust...
>
>   Cheers!
> -Max
>


     Who would have more interest in derailing the topic of UFO's and
alien visitors and all by cluttering the group up with personal attacks
than Spooks?  Maybe you're a spook Max?  Maybe I am?  Who knows?

     If you don't like what JW has to say why don't you just SILENTLY put
it in your kill file.  At least he doesn't waste a lot of bandwidth
attacking other users.

Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36260 alt.alien.visitors:12160 alt.paranormal:6212 alt.conspiracy:21152
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: A Case of Precognition?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 17:33:28 GMT
Lines: 38


I saw the book on Boolean rings myself last week; the back flap has a
biographical sketch of the author and even a photograph. Alexander Abian
has indeed taught mathematics at Iowa State, among other universities.

If this *is* the work of an AI team at Iowa State, it will go down as the
Usenet hoax of the decade. The perpetrators will gain fame, but perhaps
not the Turing prize -- the human guinea pigs were not even made aware of
the possibility that they might be conversing with software.

In any case, I await with bemused interest Abian's reply to your calling
him a computer virus.

I seem to recall that some joker the other day posted something to the
effect that the Autonomous Belaboring something-or-other AI expert system
is available for beta-test from Iowa State. Perhaps that is what gave
you this idea?

With amusement (and best wishes for the new year),

Dale Atems

------
Dale Atems
Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Department of Physics and Astronomy
[e-mail]

No Dale I did not see the information about the AI system from Iowa state
until you e-mailed me the above information. What actually happened was that
as soon as I glanced at an ABIAN piece the idea that it was an AI program
instantly flashed into my awareness - like a telepatype from the future - as
I fantasize them to be - a kind of mini-Divine Inspiration - Muse as Imp.
So, perhaps, your message to me above was the future cause whose past effect
was my posting that ABIAN may be an AI program whose author is that
modern-day Professor Moriarty - Alexander Abian! It's elementary, my dear
Atems!
.                           .
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2632 sci.skeptic:36265 alt.paranormal:6213 alt.conspiracy:21157 alt.alien.visitors:12161
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 2: The Gladstone Report I
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:04:45 GMT
Lines: 375


All commercial rights reserved by D. Gladstone & J. Sarfatti.
Permission granted to repost by on usenet and e-mail.
{glossary "Rights"|North American rights
} ) Gladstone &{author| Sarfatti}, {date \@ "yyyy"|1992}

{Title|THE GOD PHONE}
by
David Gladstone
Now that's really a coincidence...Coming events cast their shadows before.
- James Joyce, Ulysses

Science proceeds as if the past were the home of explanation; whereas the
future, and the future alone, holds the key to the mysteries of the
present.
-- Henry Dwight Sedgwick, Apology for Old Maids

If you were anybody at all in the cultural scene that was exploding in New
York in 1965 you knew Edie.  Edie Sedgwick had cachet.  She came from that
long, august line of New England Sedgwicks, whose firmament was illuminated
by genuine brilliance but was often  blighted by suicide and mental
anguish.

Edie's Face was everywhere.  Diana Vreeland featured her in Vogue Magazine.
She was in all the teenybopper rags.  Her short hair, black tights, and
great legs were always moving in a maelstrom of whirlwind activity, from
limo to club to limo again, in an endless frenzied spiral.  It was 1965.
For a while Andy worshipped androgenous Edie.  He made her a star.
Warhol's' factory'provided a nucleus around which Edie and her entourage
spun their high speed orbits, high energy particles soon to crash.. Her
face and style impressed everyone.  Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger, riding the
newest musical waves, intersected Edie's orbit.

Everyone knew she was the real heroine of Blonde on Blonde1. She was one of
the many things that moved me, Bob Dylan, Jackson Pollack... The first time
I saw Edie was in Vogue Magazine in 1965.  You have to understand where I
came from.  Living in south Jersey you get connected with the pulse beat of
what's going on through magazines.. It was all image.. She was like a thin
man in black leotards, white hair and boat-necked sweater. She was such a
strong image that I thought, "That's it." It represented everything to
me,.radiating intelligence, speed, being connected with the moment.."
- singer-songwriter, Patti Smith

Edie's last starring vehicle was "Ciao! Manhattan", now a cult classic.
The infamous Dr.Roberts, inaugurated the film by shooting up the entire
cast with amphetamines for an orgy scene at a health club.  Edie describes
her activities in Jean Stein's Edie,

..an incredible sexual tailspin..every kind of sex freak from homosexuals
to nymphomaniacs... Gobble, gobble, gobble. Couldn't get enough of it.  Sex
and speed.  Wow.  Like oh, God!  A twenty-four hour climax that can go on
for days.  I'd like to turn on the whole world for a moment... just for a
moment.  I'm greedy.  I'd like to keep most of it for myself and a few
others, a few of my friends ... so that I'd radiate sunshine.

"And I'd like to see her rise again."
- Patti Smith2

Edie's image lives on.  An icon that has the power to evoke an era or
inspire imitation.  Carl Jung attributed to such images a kind of magnetic
power to attract events, linking the future and the past through loops of
meaning which cannot be explained by the accepted definition of causality.
Edie's power to fascinate is demonstrated by her continual 'resurrection'
in books and films.  While working on this article, Oliver Stone's "The
Doors" played on the TV unwatched.  Suddenly, I looked up and there was
Edie, gyrating amid a swirl of bodies on the screen - 10 seconds of Edie
and we are back at the Factory, ca., 1967. Edie is gone.  Andy wants
nothing more to do with her.  Viva has taken her place but she is not Edie.
Jim Morrison, the latest avatar of the god of "Rock and Cock", is brought
to the Factory to meet Andy who greets Morrison like the returning prodigal
son.  The camera focuses on a gold telephone, which Warhol picks up and
holds out to Morrison saying:

Edie gave me this phone, it's a God phone. ... She said I could talk to God
with it.  I don't have anything to say to God...This is for you. Now you
can talk to God .

The moment has a ritual intensity, as if Edie herself annoints Morrison as
the next immortal living legend, and the God-phone a symbol of sovereignty.
Jim and Edie become interlinked in a loop of meaning, a synchronicity,
which has the power to cause events in the here and now.  Changing the
article to include this synchronicity entangled me in a strange loop of
meaning.

Edie's God Phone is a symbolic representation of a device and a new
paradigm that could change our lives and our view of the universe.  What we
are talking about here is a universe designed and created from the future.
In such a universe, things that seemed to be mere random coincidences,
acquire new levels of meaning. becoming part of a new kind of
'supercausality'.  Unhappy with the classical explanation of causality,
because it left so many meaningful events in his life unexplained,
psychologist Dr. Carl Jung coined the term 'synchronicities' which are
meaningful coincidences.  Thoughts and events sharing a common meaning are
attracted to each other like magnets, across the seemingly impenetrable
barrier of space-time; although there is no ordinary causal relationship
between them, they are inextricably linked.

Jung relates a story of such a synchronicity that occurred to him while
conducting analysis with a young woman.  "The night before coming to see
him she dreamt that she had been given a golden scarab.  Jung was sitting
with his back to the closed window listening to her recount her dream when
he heard a gentle tapping behind his shoulder.  Looking round, he saw a
small insect knocking against the windowpane.  Opening the window, the
insect flew in and he caught it in his hand.  what he saw was a scarabaeid
beetle, the closest equivalent to a golden scarab one could find in
Switzerland. 'I must admit', Jung wrote, 'that nothing like it has ever
happened before or since and that the dream of the patient has remained
unique in my experience.'  Jung kept coming across connections which 'I
simply could not explain as chance groupings.'"3

Jung's intuitive rebellion against causality were encouraged by new
developments in quantum physics.  Jung studied physics with his patient
Wolfgang Pauli4, in order to learn more of the nature of causality.

Dissatisfied with what he learned, Jung concluded that the quantum theory
must be incomplete.  Many years later biological scientist John Lilly,
famous for his work with dolphins, also found the scientific explanation of
causality to be unacceptable.  What he calls 'cosmic coincidence control'
and what Jung called 'synchronicities' are an integral part of what Dr.
Jack Sarfatti says is the ordering principle of a superluminal (faster-
than-light) universe.

In a superluminal universe, what seems to be miraculous or impossible,
becomes everyday.  People remember the future.  Famous cases of accurate
dreams of the sinking of a ship or the death of a loved one will be
explainable under the new theories being propounded at the leading edge of
quantum physics.  Becoming aware of Edie's image on my TV screen at the
same moment I was writing about her caused me to alter what I was writing,
because it seemed as if something was telling me to include Edie in the
story.  If true, this is the kind of future intervention that alters lives,
often without our being consciously aware of anything happening.

Sarfatti describes a synchronicity linking him with Edie and the Sedgwicks:
"I was having another fight with my girlfriend Suky Sedgwick, Edie's
sister.  While waiting for Suky at San Francisco State library, I came
across a book that had the name Sedgwick on the binding.  The book was
called Apology for Old Maids by Suky's grandfather, Henry Dwight Sedgwick.
In an essay called "House of Sorrow" ,there is a quote claiming that the
future rather than the past is ""the home of explanation"". I was stunned.
I had just read Sir Fred Hoyle's book The Intelligent Universe and had seen
almost the same quote.  Sedgwick's book was almost 80 years older than
Hoyle's.  I'd experienced yet another 'loop' in time."

I should like to make an alarming suggestion...I suggest that we may
actually be going badly wrong when we apply the usual physical rules for
time when we consider consciousness!  here is indeed, something very odd
about the way that time actually enters our conscious perceptions...suppose
there is something even vaguely teleological about the effects of
consciousness, so that a future impression might affect a past action.
Surely this would lead us into a contradiction.
- Roger Penrose, The Emperor's New Mind

What Penrose, a Royal Society Fellow at Oxford, is considering with some
trepidation, is the complete overturning of our notions of cause and
effect.  The question is this 'Do we live in a superluminal universe or
not'?  Upon the answer depends the very nature of existence itself.  A
superluminal universe means final cause, or what we call God.  A universe
that is not superluminal is most probably random without God.

3..2..1..Contact
In 1952, Jack Sarfatti, now a physicist and designer of a quantum
signalling device or God phone that will receive messages from the future,
received a phone call when he was thirteen years old that changed his life.
"I was reading a book on computer switching circuits at home when the phone
rang.  I answered it and heard a strange sequence of clunking mechanical
sounds.  Then a metallic sounding voice comes on the line.  A cold
mechanical voice is the only way I can describe it.  It gives a long series
of numbers that I did not understand and then calls me 'Jack' and says it's
a 'conscious computer on board a spacecraft.'.  It may have said it was
from the future, but I am not sure.  However, that was the implication of
what it said.  Anyway, it says I've been selected to be one of '400 young
receptive minds' to be part of a special project but that I must make the
choice myself.  The voice on the phone told me that I would begin to meet
the others I was to work with in twenty years.  I was scared and everything
in me screamed to say NO! and hang up.  I felt a strong jolt of electricity
go up my spine to the base of my skull and I heard myself say YES.  I was
terrified and fascinated.  The voice said 'Good, go out on your fire-escape
and we will send a ship to pick you up in ten minutes'.  When I hung up I
ran like a bat out of hell and found my friend Winky, who is now a homicide
detective in Brooklyn.  We, and a few other kids, went back to my apartment
to wait for the flying saucer but it never came."

Years later, while Jack's mother, Millie was reading Andrija Puharich's
book URI, she came across the account of Uri Geller's allleged contact by a
conscious computer aboard a spacecraft which mirrored Sarfatti's experience
even to the details.  Millie, said to Jack, "This sounds just like all
those phone calls you got when you were a kid."  Sarfatti said, "I was
stunned. I only remembered one phone call.  I still only remember one call.
Millie told me that there were many calls over a three week period.  She
said I was walking around glassy-eyed.  Finally she picked up the phone and
listened out of concern for me.  She heard the cold mechanical voice.  She
told it to quit bothering her son and stop calling.  The calls stopped."

What is this rough beast,its hour come round at last, slouching towards
Bethlehem to be born.
- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming

Albert Einstein, father of relativity and a deeply religious man, was never
comfortable with the idea of a Godless, random universe.  In 1953, almost
20 years after his famous EPR paper prohibiting "spooky" action-at-a-
distance, Einstein admitted to his assistant, Ernst Straus, that he had
second thoughts "You know I have recently lost confidence in the principle
of no action-at-a-distance."

Sarfatti explained that Einstein's 1935 paper showed that the Heisenberg
Uncertainty principle could be violated without action at a distance.
Since quantum mechanics is based on the uncertainty principle, it could not
be considered a complete description of reality.  The uncertainty principle
asserts that certain physical properties (like energy and time or momentum
and position) are incompatible with each other and cannot be measured to
arbitrarily small precisions (statistical standard deviations)
simultaneously in the same experimental setup."  In plain language this
means you can't change your tires and give your car a speed test at the
same time.

Einstein couldn't accept action-at-a-distance because that would violate
causality.  Causality means causes before effects.  It stems directly from
the way conscious beings experience the flow of time.  Einstein's theory of
relativity rested on two pillars, causality and symmetry.  In 1935,
Einstein believed that both pillars were essential for relativity.  Today's
experimental data shows that causality, the major stumbling block in the
way of action-at-a-distance and superluminal communication, is wrong and
that only symmetry is necessary for relativity.

Sarfatti's eyes glow with intensity as he takes on the dubious task of
explaining the forbidding subject of quantum mechanics to a non-scientist.
"We don't need more math", he says, referring to the insistence of most
physicists that useful faster-than-light communication is beyond our reach.
"The current mathematical formalism is sufficient to show how we can decode
messages from the future.  Eberhard, Stapp, and Josephson all believe in
action-at-a-distance, but say there's no way within standard quantum
mechanics to locally decode such influences. I say they are probably wrong
because of the counter examples I've developed which can be tested."

Recent discoveries may have bolstered the case for a superluminal universe.
The lead headline in the New York Times recently trumpeted, "Scientists
Report Profound Insight On How Time Began,"  The large type and the picture
were impressive enough but the latest computer generated pictures from the
COBE satellite provide very strong confirmation for the existence of cold
dark matter, the (as yet) invisible stuff which reveals itself only through
its gravity and is now thought to comprise 90% of the universe.  This
mysterious dark matter, may bring a brave new world of time travel through
wormholes and starships roaming the vastness of interstellar space.  The
crux of the matter as far as superluminality is concerned is that the
universe obeyed the laws of quantum mechanics at its birth subjecting it to
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle when it was smaller than an electron.
Hoyle and Sarfatti believe that it was at this that consciousness from the
future created the universe bringing itself into being.

Einstein's work on relativity provided a starting point for intuitive
physicists such as Wheeler, Feynman, Josephson and  others.  The new
physics has also given rise to a new cosmology of which Sir Fred Hoyle is a
leading proponent.  Hoyle compiled a massive body of evidence in his book
The Intelligent Universe that seems to strongly suggest that only a living
and intelligent (superluminal) God could have created a universe where life
(us) exists.  The very conditions of the birth of the universe (the big
bang) were specifically tailored to produce life.  The Anthropic principle
championed by Hoyle, Sarfatti and others was strongly supported by Brandon
Carter, who in 1968 stated  "Had the numerical values of certain
fundamental constants (the speed of light, the mass of an electron etc.)
been only slightly different - the universe would not be able to sustain
life as we know it."

Experimentalist Alain Aspect proved5, the reality of faster-than-light
action-at-a-distance in an experiment on the quantum connection between
pairs of photons6.  Delayed choice experiments7 and gamma photon-proton
scattering experiments8 showed that future causes do create past effects.

Recent work by such respected physicists as David Deutsch, Kip Thorne,
Yakir Aharanov and Sarfatti, involving time-travel, future-causality and
other mind-boggling vistas, is invigorating superluminal physics as never
before.

Sarfatti's credibility among other physicists, like the superluminal
conjecture, seemed for years to lay dormant in the barren soil of a
conservative physics establishment.  For  many years, talk of faster-than-
light communication and time travel has been beyond the pale of good
science.  It was a suitable subject for comic books and science fiction
only, 'strictly kid stuff.'

Sarfatti, a physics professor at SDSU in the sixties (while still in his
twenties) suffered for his connection to this 'kid stuff'. He quit his job
at SDSU and went to the University of London to learn from David Bohm who
had worked with Einstein.  Sarfatti then spent almost twenty years out of
the 'academic' loop' of mainstream physics.

Seemingly a genial character,with professorial mien and white goatee,
Sarfatti is impulsive and temperamental, and infamous for burning his
bridges in front of him.  Bitter arguments with Werner Erhard and a
perceptible rightward trend in Sarfatti's political thinking alienated him
from the New Age 'establishment'.  Sarfatti still harbors bitter feelings
towards Gary Zukav,author of The Dancing Wu Li Masters for what he
considers Zukav's "betrayal". "Zukav didn't know physics from shmysics.  I
brought him to Esalen over the strenuous objections of Michael Murphy's
wife.  I introduced him to everyone, wrote the chapter on quantum mechanics
and then he reneged on his promise of a percentage of the royalties."

Conflict and betrayal are part of the warp and weft of Sarfatti's life, as
they are a part of his beloved Wagnerian opera "Twilight of the Gods."
During his 'exile' he spent his time crying wolf at that 'barren physics
establishment', raving about time machines and Soviet spies over
cappuccino's and vino in the Caffe Trieste in San Francisco's ragged
Bohemia, North Beach.

The dictum that nature abhors a vacuum was certainly true for Sarfatti.  He
became friendly with some prominent local conservatives, among them
A.Lawrence Chickering and Marshal Naify.  "The three of us were having
lunch at Enrico's in North Beach.  Suddenly Naify launched into a monologue
describing the future Star Wars program in what turned out to be
astonishingly accurate detail.  It was an amazing performance."  Sarfatti
said.  Even more astonishing since Naify was not involved in the sciences
and no one was talking about anything resembling Star Wars in the media at
that time.  Chickering was so impressed by the idea he asked me to give a
scientific summary of what Naify had outlined.  The summary was sent to
Paul Nitze, Reagan's chief nuclear weapons negotiator.  Chickering told me
Nitze liked what I wrote.  I talked about rendering nuclear weapons
impotent and obsolete.   A channel to Cap Weinberger had opened up through
his son, Cap Jr.  I sent him all the same material, which reached Reagan
through his father, the Secretary of Defense.  The physics wasn't good, but
it made good propaganda against the Soviets."

A fervent believer in synchronicity and in himself, Sarfatti made
numberless versions of 'God Phones' or 'Future Machines - many of them
wrong, he admits.  He fired his salvos to colleagues all over the world.
Feynman believed he had gone crazy, and he certainly wasn't alone in that
belief.  Mostly they reacted bemusedly when his name came up.  A few had
sterner reactions. Henry Stapp, of Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, who
carried on a ten year correspondence with Sarfatti, wrote an angry letter
to the Editor of Physics Essays that Sarfatti was incompetent for insisting
that faster-than-light communication was possible in standard quantum
mechanics.  More than ten years ago the late Heinz Pagels, a highly
respected professor at Rockefeller University and President of the New York
Academy of Sciences, shouted at me on the telephone that Sarfatti was "a
charlatan" for his belief in action-at-a-distance. "Sarfatti was crazy",
who was he to sweep aside causality with a wave of his hand.  Pagels held
Sarfatti in bad odor because, in addition to his support for action-at-a-
distance, he worked on precognitive remote viewing with New Age people from
Esalen9, such as Uri Geller and Andrija Puharich.  Esalen would also serve
as the place where the "Hot Tub Diplomacy"10 of the early 80's took place.

Something rather chilling occurred a few years later.  Pagels dreamt of
mountain climbing (he was an expert climber) and falling to his death.  So
shaken was he by the dream's vividness that he told his friends and even
mentioned it at the very end of his book, The Cosmic Code.

I dreamed I was clutching at the face of a rock but it would not hold.
Gravel gave way.  I grasped for a shrub but it pulled loose, and in cold
terror I fell into the abyss.  Suddenly I realized that my fall was
relative; there was no bottom and no end.  A feeling of pleasure overcame
me.  I realized that what I embody, cannot be destroyed.  It is written
into the cosmic code, the order of the universe.

Not long afterward, while on an undemanding climb with friends, he slipped
and fell to his death.  Had Pagels experienced a genuine precognition?
That was something that he just knew was impossible.  Yet it consumed his
attention until he slipped and fell on a climb that was regarded as easy,
safe even for a less experienced climber than Pagels.  Sarfatti has no
doubt but that Pagels had a first hand experience with future causality.
Many people, he says have a strange blindness to this kind of thing.  In
some way Pagels believed and accepted his precognition as part of his
cosmic destiny as we can see from a closing quote in The Cosmic Code  " But
it seems certain that the recent human contact with the invisible world of
quanta and the vastness of the cosmos will shape the destiny of our species
or whatever we may become." And, as Sarfatti points out, "The invisible
world of the quanta obey the superluminal dictates of the future."
A shout in the street.
"From the play field the boys raised a shout. The ways of the creator are
not our ways," Mr. Deasy said.  "All history moves toward one great goal,
the manifestation of God."  Stephen jerked his thumb toward the window,
saying: - "That is God. Hooray, Ay, Whirree!" - "What?" Mr. Deasy asked. -
"A shout in the street." Stephen answered, shrugging his shoulders.

Now that's really a coincidence...Coming events cast their shadows before.
                         - James Joyce, Ulysses
to be continued.
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2633 alt.paranormal:6214 sci.skeptic:36266 alt.alien.visitors:12162 alt.conspiracy:21158
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 3: The Gladstone Report II
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:23:21 GMT
Lines: 219


Long orphaned by science and most philosophy, teleological superluminality
has found a home in drama, religion, literature, and in film.  Joyce's
Ulysses is a treasure trove of Jungian synchronicities, which may be
acausal loops-in-time that employ the future-to-past time sense.  Joyce
uses such seemingly random recurring events as a shout in the street, the
wanderings of a crumpled piece of paper, the pealing of church bells, to
order time through loops of causality.  The inner geometry of Ulysses is
not the geometry of billiards and of Newton.  It is the strange inner
geometry of Einstein and quantum mechanics.  Causality seems to slide along
this strange geometry like a roller coaster at an amusement park.  Kurt
Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five also reflects the strange geometry of future
causality:  The planet Tralfamadoria which exists in the future creates a
civilization on earth so they can get a part they need for one of their
spaceships.  Just as the Greeks in Romans used the Deus Ex Machina to
provide for a superluminal Voice of God.  Chris Marker, in the highly
acclaimed film "La Jettee" creates an eerie warring world of the future,
that makes captives of people in the past to experiment on them.  In "The
Navigator" a young man leads his people from the plague-ravaged 14th
century to the 20th century to find a cure for the mysterious disease that
is decimating them.  In the Sci-Fi genre, Sarfatti's fellow physics
graduate student at UCSD, Gregory Benford, weaves a chilling tale of a
doomed future earth in Time Scape.  In the story, scientists send warnings
to their colleagues in the past  to save the planet.  Phillip Jose Farmer's
Riverworld series which includes practically everything that ever lived,
requires future-to-past causality as well. And of course, we can't forget
"The Terminator"  or "Back to the Future" and "Peggy Sue Gets Married".

Turning and turning within the widening gyre.
              - W.B.Yeats, The Second Coming

Merging the ostensibly separate meanings of God and Machine, Edie, perhaps
unconsciously, linked herself to a turn of thought and intuition that has
its branches in antiquity and its roots in the far distant future.  From
the ancient stories of the Greek gods to the cyber-punk of today's Science
fiction, people have taken for granted the existence of a superluminal
reality.  Almost all of us have experienced this firsthand.  For example,
invariably, when I call my mother, she will say, "That's funny I was just
thinking about you."  How many times have you thought about someone,
suddenly, perhaps after a long period of time when you hadn't thought of
them at all.  Soon, sure enough, you see them in a day or two. then you
know that you've just touched the mystery. Precognitive incidents like
these have always suffered from the taint of impossibility, just like
UFO's, although admitting to a dream that proves to be true or having had a
precognitive experience may be less embarrassing than claiming to have seen
or been aboard a UFO.
Deus Ex Machina
Deus ex Machina' or the God from a machine was originally used in ancient
Greek and Roman plays, a device was brought on stage to intervene in the
action of a play when conditions were in extremis; when the situation was
such that only supernatural intervention could save the day.  Jack Sarfatti
thinks that his  article "Design for a Superluminal Signaling Device"11'
may lead to nothing less than a Deus ex Machina.  Both he and Heinz Pagels'
close friend, Nick Herbert, have spent years trying to develop God Phones
which decode and utilize precognitive messages from the future.  This is
not the same as predicting the future.  Sarfatti's goateed visage looms out
from under a Greek fisherman's cap as he proclaims: "Prediction of the
future from the past is part of the classical causality axiom, yet it is
not really supported by the evidence. In quantum mechanics both the future
and the past co-determine the present."

The increasingly likely establishment of a superluminal world-view cannot
be credited solely to an individual, or even to the sciences.  Future-cause
and past-effect has been an intrinsic part of the scientific, cultural and
religious  inheritance of the human race.

Since ancient times scientists have tried to model the universe within
their cultural and religious contexts.  According to Sarfatti,
Pythagoras,12 Newton, Einstein, Planck and Heisenberg, are the Illuminati
who receive knowledge from the future God that is bringing our universe
into being."

Quantum mechanics is illuminating a trail which may lead to the roots of
consciousness itself.  Indeed, at the quantum level our own brains may be
mirroring the quantum processes which occurred before the Big Bang itself.
As above so below, says the ancient mystical truism, and now quantum
physicists are echoing that sentiment.  Recent work done at the leading
edge of molecular biology supports this conjecture.

With  state Christianity in the Roman empire came dogma and a strategy of
repression and elimination of views that differed. Speculation on the
nature of the universe was discouraged by the Church Fathers.  For nearly
1,000 years, science remained stuck in an ancient rut.  As the renaissance
dawned, however, scientists fought a mostly losing battle to be free of the
constraints of religiouss tyranny.  Marlowe's Faust is an allegory of
scientific man's rebellion against the tyranny of Church authority.  The
careers of Bruno13 and Galileo amply illustrate the difficulties of that
struggle.  Over hundreds of years the work of Copernicus, Newton and
Descartes eviscerated the Church's authority.  Such literal Biblical
teachings as creationism are taught only as a relic of religious thought
rather than as valid theories of how the Universe comes into being. God-in-
the-Machine is now just the voice of the machine.  Anyone accepting the
literal word of The Bible as truth in today's secular world would be
considered a credulous fool by many secular westerners.

Since the beginning of this century, physicists have gone by speculation
and experiment where few can follow.  Most of us must accept the claims of
scientific authority as we once accepted the validity of religious dogma.
Some scientists claim (just as many ancients must have done after observing
a phenomenon they could not explain) that they can see the "handwriting of
God" in some of the recent pictures from the COBE satellite which show the
universe at a very early age.

Sarfatti's Hyper-History
Sarfatti suffers no embarrassment about his claims of a superluminal
connection to all kinds of historical figures. In 1978 Sarfatti was
suffering his indulgent idyll/exile in North beach, orphaned by the New Age
Movement after his bitter falling out with Werner Erhard.  He met someone
who, according to Sarfatti, clarified the historical context he was in.  He
feels trapped in a time loop of causality reversal that connects him to
such world historical figures as Hitler, Mussolini and FDR.  "Sitting on
the terrace of the Savoy Tivoli, I was introduced by a friend, Leila
Dwight,to an aristocratic-looking young man dressed in Lederhosen, the
Bavarian national dress.  She said he was her cousin but it didn't mean
anything at the time. I didn't know that Leila's family had intermarried
repeatedly with the Sedgwicks for 200 years.

He was Egon Sedgwick Hanfstaengl. At the time I met him I hadn't yet met
Suky Sedgwick.  He said something about his family being involved 'in
history' but he didn't say what.  These connections were made clear to me
years later when the book Edie by Jean Stein and George Plimpton came out.
Hanfstaengl was a cousin of Edie's and the grandson of Ernst "Putzi"
Sedgwick Hanfstaengl.

In 1904, Putzi spent hours in the basement of Teddy Roosevelt's White House
with his cousin and Harvard classmate, Frank (FDR) playing the piano in the
boisterous, somewhat oafish style, that his friends loved.  In 1920, Putzi
was playing piano to a captive audience in Munich.  His new friend Adolph
Hitler was in a hypnotic and joyous reverie listening to the music of his
beloved Wagner.  Putzi and his American wife performed a valuable service
to the future Fuhrer.  They arranged gemutlich little musical evenings with
many of the prominent figures of post WW1 Germany for Hitler.  They
smoothed his rough edges.  They eased his way into the upper circles where
the spirit of unrepentant revanchism burned undiminished by defeat.  In
1923 at Putzi's Tyrolean Villa, the distraught Hitler was in disgrace; his
Bavarian Putsch was broken and he was about to be arrested for treason.
The police were banging on the door and would soon be coming up the stairs.
All was lost; but for the timely intervention of Putzi's wife who altered
history forever when she wrestled the loaded pistol that he had pointed at
his own head from him.  Sarfatti claims that the hand of destiny that saved
Hitler, also altered his own life.  Saying that historical themes tend to
recurr in within certain familial "Destiny Matrices", Sarfatti sketched out
a nonlinear history of his clan.

In 1923, Margherita Sarfatti, was the lover of Benito Mussolini, and later
was patroness of the fascist cultural movement, Nouvocento, (New Century)
which expressed a belief in the philosophy of future cause.  She was the
mother of one Italy's WWI heroes, Roberto Sarfatti, killed at the age of
eighteen at Mussolini's side in the trenches.  Roberto was later enshrined
as one the immortals in the fascist pantheon.  Samuel Sarfatti was the
personal physician to Pope Julius II and he was instrumental in getting
Michaelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. 'Sarfatti' means
'the Frenchman' in Hebrew and traces back to the great Rabbi, Rashi de
Troyes (1040 - 1105)."  Sarfatti sees himself linked in  meaningful causal
loops with many historical figures. "This historical context is not my
creation", he says, "but  a recurrent theme over hundreds of years that
expressed itself in the lives of real people, who happened to be my family
and Suky's family. Just like I happened to get that phone call. We were
brought together as players in a scene written in the far future."

He is not the only one to see himself this way.  Sarfatti and his
superluminal physics are portrayed in Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus
Trilogy.  Carlos Suares, a cabalist mystic and intimate of Henry Miller
annointed Sarfatti to be the "heir" to his tradition.  "I didn't know what
he was talking about at the time. But he was a Cabalist Master who knew a
great deal more than I about the significant role some of my relatives
played in Jewish history."  Fictionalized as Balthazar, in Lawrence
Durrell's Alexandria Quartet, Suares urged Sarfatti to "smash the wall of
light.", which Sarfatti sees as one and the same as Einstein's light
barrier. "I saw myself as a Parsival character. I reached the Grail Castle
and didn't know what I was doing there and I didn't get the Grail. But I
got the challenge to "smash the wall of light" and that's what I'm trying
to do.

Since the publication of his latest paper in a prestigious physics journal
and his reestablishment of ties with academics at Berkeley, Sarfatti's
credibility seems to be rising phoenix-like from the ashes.  It was at
Berkeley in Ray Chiao's quantum optics seminar that Nobel Laureate Charles
Townes was told by Chiao that a paper by Sarfatti some twenty years
previously had helped them in their research.  At another seminar, David
Mermin,head of the physics department at Cornell, told the group that he
had read Sarfatti's paper and had been perplexed because he couldn't find
anything wrong with it.  He finally realised what was wrong but he he said
he couldn't remember.  Sarfatti says the seminar broke up in laughter.  His
most recent salvo against 'fortress mentality' of the physics establishment
is a paper he believes will invalidate Phillippe Eberhard's proof against
communicating useful messages from future to past.

With the help of modern technology man is extending his intelligence out
into into the vast reaches of space and down to the mysterious level of
quantum phenomena.  In the worlds of art and science, ( which seem to
uncannily mirror each other) there has long been dissatisfaction with  the
theories and dogmas which leave far too much of our real world unaccounted
for.  Sarfatti sees this as a 'vacuum of reason' which he like nature
abhors. "What I'm after is simple.  I want to prove the existence of God
and a superluminal universe created from the future which created us so
that the universe could itself be created.  Let's not play games and stand
on high horses when it comes to radical advances in thought.  Let
experiment decide. If it doesn't work then we've still learned something."


1 arguably Dylan's greatest album
2 from the poem "Edie" written on hearing of Edie's death.

3 Beyond Time, Danah Zohar
4 discoverer of the Pauli exclusion principle and the neutrino
5 at the University of Paris in 1982,
6 quanta of light
7 Carol Alley of the University of Maryland
8 Charles Bennett of Lawrence Livermore Laboratory
9 a resort near Big Sur in California,famous for sixties style sexual
experimentation and lectures promoting a New Age of enlightenment.
10 Newsweek, 1980.
11 Physics Essays, Vol. 4, No.3 Sept. 1991 (University of Toronto Press).
12 whose famous theorem is at the foundation not only of relativity but
also of quantum mechanics.  Pythagoras was one of the great scientists of
all time but also a mystic and religious leader.
13 Bruno was burned at the stake and Galileo was placed under a church
edict to keep silent regarding his heretical beliefs.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12163 alt.conspiracy:21159 sci.skeptic:36267
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!nwnexus!ole!ssc!tad
From: [e-mail] (Tad Cook)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Organization: very little
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:18:32 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear One and All: I believe that you will find that the Great And
>Noble Kibo understands me quite well.
>John Winston.


ah-HA!!!!  The cat is finally out of the bag.  Has John ever posted such
an obvious hint that it is ALL a joke....that he is just screwing with
our heads?


--
 Tad Cook     |  Phone:  [phone]  (home)     |   MCI Mail: 3288544
 Seattle, WA  |  Packet: KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA   |   [e-mail]
              |  Internet: [e-mail]           or...sumax!ole!ssc!tad
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12164 alt.conspiracy:21160 sci.skeptic:36268
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!peora!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:59:08 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
>> yet. The battle is not won yet.
>> John Winston.
>
>This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
>ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.
>
>It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
>contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
>anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.
>
>Just today this idiot has posted over 15 2 or 3 line posts of meaningless
>drivel.
>
>-Garrett

Whatsamatta..can't figure out how to use a kill file,eh?

[sarcasm mode ON]

Geezz.."Let's moderate this newsgroup..I mean, just because I'm too
dense to figure out I have options like skipping the offending article
or using a kill file shouldn't prevent me from calling for a *Moderated*
newsgroup"

[sarcasm mode OFF]

And =who= would you have "moderate" this newsgroup?

Yourself?

meany,meany,meany...right Buck!

No thanks.

Just what is it that you "supervise" in people ? You only supervise
that which is worthless. For =most= responsible adults, they supervise
themselves. It is only the twits that need to have a Moderator. To
be reminded of "rules"..to be reminded to "stay on topic"..to be reminded
to avoid ad homenim attacks on fellow users.



                  Don Allen
             Fidonet UFO Echo Moderator


--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12165 alt.conspiracy:21162 sci.skeptic:36270
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!sbooth
From: [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:22:03 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
>> yet. The battle is not won yet.
>> John Winston.
>
>This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
>ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.
>
>It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
>contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
>anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.
>
>Just today this idiot has posted over 15 2 or 3 line posts of meaningless
>drivel.
>
>-Garrett
I enjoy alt.alien.visitors but have the same complaint.  This Winston person
floods the newsgroup with his one-liners, and they aren't even relevent
to anything else that has been posted.

I've seen the AI-experiment theory put forth as an explanation to many of the
more stupid things posted on the net.
Simon

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![[e-mail]]
From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: i have a question
Message-ID: <199227.4962.12342@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 27 Dec 92 21:42:08 EST
Lines: 18


I've read some documentation recently discussing a few types of
aliens currently thought to be know. Can somebody tell me who the
Pleidiands or Pleiadiands are and what their purpose is. I've heard
about the Greys but very little is mentions about the Pleidians,
Blonds, or EBEs.

Any comment is appreciated.
[e-mail]

                         �����������������������������������������������
                         ��Ķ Roman Andruszko �����۲�������������������
                         �����������������������������������������������
---
 � DeLuxe� 1.26b #7079 � I've seen the truth...   It doesn't make sense ???
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12167 alt.conspiracy:21165 alt.paranormal:6215 sci.skeptic:36273
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re: factual basis of action at a distance in voodoo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:55:42 GMT
Lines: 18


Please present documented evidence of action-at-a-distance occuring that
can not be explained by psychological effects upon the person or persons
being acted on.  I have never seen such evidence, and if you have some
I would enjoy seeing it.  It would be especially instructive to see a
case where it was demonstrated under controlled conditions, with an
expert in trickery being in attendence.
--
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: [e-mail]   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley

Seth has taken my remarks somewhat out of its originally humorous and
satiric context in my flamatory reply to D Wolff's flame against me.
I was being rhetorical not scientific - though I think real voodoo etc
may actually be possible - certainly most of its effects are psychological.
If my physics turns out to be essentially correct we will be able to build
machines that show controlled action at a distance - but that's a big if
.. and I am working on it.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Blair.Bingham
From: [e-mail] (Blair Bingham)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: abductions ???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Dec 92 21:24:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 8

Hi John, I would be intersted in that 400k of files about the greys, can you somehow send them to me?

Thanks,
 Blair
--
Blair Bingham - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!actcnews!sun1x!scottb
From: [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn)
Subject: Re: question!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
References: <1992Dec22.4962.12310@dosgate>
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:45:05 GMT
Lines: 8

Roman,

yes, we see you (your post, actually).
--
Disclaimer:  I didn't do it!  Nobody saw me do it!  You can't prove anything!
             My opinions are my own.   They do not reflect anyone/thing else!
\/       preferred        \/
[e-mail]            |           [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13378 alt.alien.visitors:12170 alt.religion.kibology:5521
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc
From: [e-mail] (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:39:23 GMT
Lines: 13

[e-mail] wrote:
: [e-mail] writes:
: > Kibo is truely a master of what he does and I haven't figured out what that
: > is yet.
:
:    Kibo is the best at what he does, but what he does isn't very pretty.

Only if he doesn't wash his hands afterwards.  He probably does it in public,
too, but I hear you can get arrested for that...
--
Ed Carp            [e-mail], [e-mail]    801/538-0177

Who and what would you be if you went beyond your deepest fears?
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!cstringe
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Stringer)
Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, University Computing Services
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:30:39 GMT
Lines: 18

<[e-mail]>  writes:  |  I too  propose  that  a  moderated
newsgroup be formed.  It seems that | John Winston gets  a kick out of
annoying people.  It has also been | proposed that we just ignore him.
This obviously hasn't  worked  since | many people are  still publicly
responded  to  his  net  posts.  So  let's  |  form  a  new  MODERATED
newsgroup.  | Ethan Haslett | [e-mail]

And who'll moderate it? Someone completely impartial? Yeah,  right. In
a  news  group  that  discusses  something  thats  very  existence  is
questionable, a moderator would have too much influence  over the free
exchange of ideas. Who is to say what is fiction and what is fact when
the  entire  discussion  is  based on conjecture?  Sure  most  of John
Winston's  articles are ridiculous,  they're still more interesting to
read than pointless arguing about trivial issues.

----
Chuck Stringer
E-mail [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!dorsai.com!idealord
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:01:53 GMT
Lines: 17

[e-mail] writes:

> Well, I think it is come time to start a moderated Ufology group. Winston
> is scaring away an relevent discussions.
>
> Does anyone know how to set up a moderated group?
>
> -Garrett
>
>

Absolutely!  Moderation is the answer!


Jeff Harrington
IdEAL ORDER
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12173 alt.conspiracy:21184 sci.skeptic:36292
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!dorsai.com!idealord
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:06:14 GMT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> Whatsamatta..can't figure out how to use a kill file,eh?
>
> [sarcasm mode ON]
>
> Geezz.."Let's moderate this newsgroup..I mean, just because I'm too
> dense to figure out I have options like skipping the offending article
> or using a kill file shouldn't prevent me from calling for a *Moderated*
> newsgroup"

Don - Not everyone is running tin or rn.  Many people on InterNet use
Waffle which doesn't have a - kill - capability.  For these people it is
impossible to tell that its one of Mr. Winston's hoax postings or a
commentary or whatever!  I find it funny that anyone would believe the
guy is for real.  I find it amazing that all of the paranoid pro-ufo
people don't think he's a part of our "ongoing government conspiracy"
;-).  JW is abusing our courtesies as part of the InterNet community and
effectively stifling commentary and criticism of Ufology methodologies.


Jeff Harrington
IdEAL ORDER
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12174 alt.religion.kibology:5522
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: John Winston revealed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:07:47 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan Greig) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael_-_Saleeba) writes:
>>>  I saw these two guys sitting at a computer and pointing and laughing
>>>at the screen. At first I thought it was my good chum Kibo but they
>>>didn't have a dog so I guess not.
>>
>> I don't have a dog... not since Spot fell on his pocket time machine
>> (ouch) and it went off and sent him back to the days when the Earth was
>> in liquid form.  Poor Spot!
>
>Pocket time machine? How many pockets did poor Spot have?

One too many, it would seem...

kbq
--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13379 sci.skeptic:36296 alt.alien.visitors:12175
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: The Passing Of Spot.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:50:48 GMT
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn) writes:
>[e-mail] writes:
>:> Dear Folks: I am sad to hear of the passing of Spot. I still have
>:> Yogi The Telepathic Dog by myside.
>:> John Winston.
>
>What the hell does this have to do with alt.alien.visitors? or any of the
>other news groups that it is cross posted to?
>--
Not a damn thing, of course!

Happy Holidays!

kbq
--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 28 Dec 1992 14:29:05 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Moderated Group/John Winston
Lines: 8

Well, I just had a thought after reading several posts against a
moderated newsgroup: Maybe John Winston is doing his crap to steer this
group towards it being moderated.  How's that for a conspiracy?
I guess the solution that might work best without using a moderator is just
to ignore John Winstons.  This means everybody has to MODERATE themselves and
restrain from flaming John Winston and those like him.
Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6
From: [e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:41:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Sad but true: this really has to a moderated group.  It reminds me
of gradeschool, where a teacher would give the kids quite a bit of
rope until the "bad apples" hung the rest of the class.

There seems to be quite a group of people ready to jump ship (me
among them).  Maybe we should just go find our own sandbox to play
in.
--
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Pest Control. Ever hear of this idiot?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:48:23 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Lines: 16

I got an interesting flame from an anonymous user 'Pest_Control'. This
person told me to shutup complaining about JW or 'face the consequences'
or something like that.

This was followed by a 40Kb repeat of my posting. Apparently this person
has a limit to the size of messages that they can send (my mail can
handle megabytes). I promptly deleted the message, and my reply to the
person bounced.

Strange, the tone of the posters voice sounded alot like JW. Perhaps
Pest_Control will send me another message so I can trace its origin?

-Garrett



Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13382 alt.alien.visitors:12179 sci.skeptic:36309
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!revcan!cerianthus!uuisis!testsys!doug
From: [e-mail] (Doug Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Tunnels #1.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 23:34:54 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: DistNet Technical Support
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>
(James Rice) writes:

> As an aside, it may be of interest to readers in the Commonwealth
> that there are more differences between the U.S. and the U.K. than
> their Suns.  The most insidious one I have found is with the word
> "Quite".  In American, this means "very".  In the U.K. it means
> "slightly" (unless with sarcasm).  Thus, in the U.S., you might see
> someone say that McElwain is quite full of shit.  In the U.K. you
> may not find this sufficient and would be forced to think he was
> an arch-wanker.

And in Canada "quite" means "moderately".  We have quite a few tabloid
newspapers called the Sun.  There is the Toronto Sun, the Ottawa Sun, the
Edmonton Sun, the Vancouver Sun.

The BOLD CAPITALS HEADLINES are liable to be of the sort: 400 DEAD or
NDP DROPS AXE (meaning that the government increased taxes).  Of
course, turn to page three for the "Sunshine Girl" of the day.

As for an arch-wanker, well Canadians are just too polite. Quite
polite actually :-).  In referring to someone whom an American would
unabashedly declare to be full of shit and whom a Brit would denounce
as a wanker, a Canadian would shake his (or her) head, look a little
embarassed and shy and venture "it makes you wonder, eh?"

The "eh?" is all-important, and represents a request for permission
from the Imperial masters to possess an opinion.

Silly you say?

Quite, eh?

=Doug


---

uuisis!testsys!doug
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2644 sci.skeptic:36319 alt.alien.visitors:12180 alt.paranormal:6221 alt.conspiracy:21205
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:57:05 GMT
Lines: 85


reposted from sci.physics
End of article 14895 (of 14895)--what next? [npq] Article 14894 (329 more)
in sci.physics:
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Professionalism
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:32:47 GMT


I deliberately did not post The Gladstone Report on this conference as it is
more appropriate to
other conferences since it is more than physics - it is
literature, politics - the Glass Bead Game. McInnes seemed compelled to post
it here. All the historical facts asserted in it are true - including my
weird experience as a kid in 1952 with the metallic voice claiming to be a
computer on a spacecraft from the future. My childhood friend Al Brough of
the New York Police Department Homocide DIvision (Snyder St Station) may
well remember it as he was in my apartment within minutes of that call.
Exactly, what the call was is anybody's guess - if it was not what it
claimed to be then it was some adult messing with a 12 year old's mind - but
the interesting coincidence is how it ties into the Uri Geller caper twenty
years or more later including the Puthoff remote viewing experiments at SRI
including an incident with the late Brendan O Regan, Barbara Honneger (of
October Surprise fame) and the alleged psychic - not Geller, not Pat Price,
his name escapes me for the moment - in which the cold metallic voice
appeared again claiming to be a computer on board a space-craft from the
future- not to mention Andrija Puharich's written accounts of such stuff and
the Jenny and the Nine incidents at Esalen during the visits of the Soviet
Elite before the fall of the old-line Soviet Regime. In the Alice and
Wonderland world of covert intelligence these things may all be connected in
a very meaningful way. But this is not the proper subject matter of this
conference - important and interesting though it might be.

Paul your remark

"Arguing with Jack Sarfatti is a bit like shoveling manure in a barn
full of horses. No matter how much you shovel today there will be just
as much to shovel tomorrow. It is not that Jack is unintelligent or does
not know physics. It is just that he is extremely careless. He seems to
confuse lack of scientific discipline with scientific adventurousness.
They are not the same thing. Scientific adventurousness is impossible
without scientific discipline."

is not calculated to evoke a cool rational response. I will answer you in
detail later - but you are covering up your basic confusion. True one needed
to change relative polarizer settings to see the (cos@)^2/2 correlation
which violated Bell's inequality - but you do not have to do it as a
dynamical process in time. It is enough to do what Aspect dis - switch the
polarizer orientations in a time short compared to flight times of each
photon in pair from source to polarizer-detector to ensure a space-like
interval between both measurements of each photon in same pair. Your delay
corresponding to time it takes one of the photons to move from its polarizer
to its detector is not important. If you looked at my diagram you would see
what I mean - maybe. I still say you are dealing with an illusion. More
later when I read your latest post in detail.
Article 14895 (328 more) in sci.physics:
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re:Professionalism
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:43:31 GMT


Oh yes, I remember the name of the psychic being tested by Brendan O Regan
in Puthoff and Targ's SRI laboratory was Ingo Swann. I think he is referred
to in the book on UFOs OUT THERE by Blum (?) the NY TIMES reporter - the
chapter in
which Ingo remote views Soviet submarines for high level defense officials.

O Regan worked for Astronaut Edgar Mitchell at Noetics Institute which
provided funds to SRI. O Regan asked Swann to remote view the future when
Swann, a trance medium, started to speak in a cold metallic voice repeating
the same sort of stuff I heard as a kid in Brooklyn years earlier in 1952-
the SRI incident was in mid 70's. This particular story was told to me by
Barbara Honneger befoe she went to the Reagan White House with the guy from
Hoover Martin Anderson who was domestic policy advisor. Honneger (Honegger
sp?)
at the time was working for Toy manufacturer Henry Dakin who was funding
Michael Murphy's
work on sports and psi - see his recent book. Both Dakin and Murphy are
active in Gorbachev Foundation USA today at a very high level. It's
interesting that their group also brought Boris Yeltsin to US before he was
elected President of Russia- strange connections indeed! All true - check it
out boys and girls!

Xref: icaen sci.physics:34687 sci.skeptic:36320 alt.conspiracy:21206 alt.paranormal:6222 alt.alien.visitors:12181
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:05:45 GMT
Lines: 127


Memorandum for the Record
Reprinted from Moscow, Russia News Magazine
ARGUMENTS AND FACTS INTERNATIONAL
Sept-Oct. 1992

SECOND THOUGHTS

While the much-ballyhooed Mikhail Gorbachev Foundation has carried out an
on-going media campaign to establish itself as a global think-tank, a clash
of cultures has emerged between Gorbachev and his US associates on one
side, ans on the other, a number of long-serving anti-Communist scholars
and policy experts at the Stanford-based Hoover Institute.

During this Spring's US tour, Gorbachev reportedly raised millions of
dollars for his foundation.  Now, the activities of the organisation and of
its US branch, The Gorbachev Foundation USA, are coming under scrutiny by
members of the California policy community that originally seemed to
support its creation.

PROJECTING FALSE IMAGES
'The Gorbachev Foundation is the propagation of a falsehood,' declared
Angelo Codevilla, a seven-year Hoover veteran, formerly with the US Senate
Intelligence Committee. 'They are giving the American public the impression
that the Cold War ended and the Communist regime fell because of Gorbachev
and his American friends, when he and they actually did everything possible
to keep the system going.

Codevilla described the Gorbachev Foundation as 'prtraying the end of the
Cold War as the product of meetings between US and Russian elite figures,
like-minded types who just decided it wasn't worth it anymore, when
Communism fell because of Russians in the street, not the elite.'

'Gorbachev is a superstar, and some people may be using him for their own
motives,' said John Dunlap, a nine-year Hoover senior fellow and expert on
Russian ethnic issues. 'I think Gorbachev's Western friends are sincere,
and that there is an objective basis for the adulation directed to him.  He
is perceived as the man who greatly reduced the danger of a nuclear
exchange, and therefore as a man of peace.'

But Dunlap continued, 'The irony is that Gorbachev continues to enjoy this
enormous esteem in the West while in his own country he is extremely
unpopular.  I think it's clear that the purpose of the Gorbachev Foundation
is not only to promote Gorbachev but also to promote the platform he stands
for, which is one of renewed socialism and the re-establishment of the
former Soviet Union.  I believe he remains a Marxist-Leninist, and that he
has yet to acquiesce in the formation of the Commonweathe of Independent
States.  These are the views promoted by the Foundation.'

PLAYING A DANGEROUS GAME
"Why isn't there a Yeltsin Foundation?' Dunlap asked. 'This is the man who
stands closest to the fundamental beliefs that we American adhere to -
pluralism, multiparty democracy, and a market economy in a Westward-looking
Russia.  Gorbachev is a man of the past.  He's a reform Communist in the
post-Communist age.  What's the point of a Gorbachev Foundation?'

'Gorbachev should be playing the role of an elder statesman, rather than
indulging himself in the delusion that, like Charles de Gaulle, he will be
recalled to power.  He is definitely playing a very dangerous game in his
attacks on Yeltsin,' Dunlap said.

The US branch of the Foundation - Gorbachev Foundation USA - based in San
Francisco, has received considerable media attention and anticipated large
donations thanks to support from individuals such as George Schultz, former
Secretary of State.

In addition to Shultz, the group claims the endorsement of no less than
Ronald Reagan, although some associates of the Foundation have continued to
attack Reagan and his policies.

'I just don't think Shultz really understands what's going on,' commented
another Hoover personality, who requested anonymity.

Prominent figures at Hoover have also criticised the involvement in the
Gorbachev Foundation of figures from California's 'new age' subculture,
symbolized by Foundation director Jim Garrison.

Garrison was a founder of the Christic Institute, which has been fined $1.7
million for filing a 'frivolous' lawsuit against the US government, and was
a long-time functionary of the 'hot-tub' Esalen Institute.

ALIEN SUBVERSION INFLUENCES?
The Foundation's 'new age' posture has led to an involvement with
individuals like Professor John Mack, a tenured faculty member in
psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School.

Mack, who acted as moderator at a recent San Francisco seminar on 'Esalen
Diplomacy with the Soviets, 1979-1992,' has publically affirmed his belief
that a 'huge, strange interspecies or interbeing breeding program has
invaded our physical reality and is affecting the lives of hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of people, and perhaps in some way the
consciousness of the entire planet.'

Mack claims this subversive plan is behind stories of UFO 'abductions' of
innocent Earthlings, and he told one observer at the San Francisco seminar,
physicist Jack Sarfatti, that people in 'the UFO community' beleive
Gorbachev himself had a 'contact experience with a UFO.'

Mack has been publically accused by nuclear physicist and Star Wars'
advocate Edward Teller of promoting a KGB campaign to unermine US science
and defence research.

In the view of Garrison, the Murphy's, and their cohorts, the 'new age'
approach was not only a motive force of Soviet change, its strategy was
successful because it was specifically counterposed to the tough policy
followed under Reagan.  That is, the hot tubbers 'kept the faith' and
defied the Reagan line of limited contacts with the Soviet regime, and
glasnost succeeded because the hot tub 'diplomats' were unafrid to
'embrace' the KGB.

'I am not at all surprised that Garrison would have a background with
something like the Christic Institute,' said Codevilla, 'But it is all the
more surprising to see establishment thinkers associating themselves with
such an enterprise as the Gorbachev Foundation.'

At the time of Gorbachev's most recent visit, there were already some bad
omens for the project.  They included a repudiation of the effort by Henry
Kissinger, whose name was listed as a sponsor of the tour, but who
reportedly said he knew nothing about it, except that he offered to hold a
small breakfast event.

The came a resignation from the sponsor's list by Ambassador Arthur
Hartman, the top US diplomat in Moscow during much of the early glasnost
period.  Hartman, who is well acquainted with the movers and shakers in the
Foundation, as well as Gorbachev himself, refused to support a money-
raising effort without guarantees as to how the funds would be used.

Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2645 alt.paranormal:6223 alt.conspiracy:21207 sci.skeptic:36322 alt.alien.visitors:12182
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: A note on Edie Sedgwick, UFOs & Sarfatti Papers
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:13:57 GMT
Lines: 11


Another interesting coincidence.
p.320 of the book EDIE by MCA heiress Jean Stein and Paris Review editor
George Plimpton (hard cover Alfred A. Knopf 1982) is a reproduction of a
publicity poster for the 1960's Andy Warhol film CIAO! MANAHATTAN. Edie
Sedgwick looking angelic is looking skywards - above her are the words
"Speed.Madness.Flying Saucers"
Edie was long dead by 1982. I became physically and emotionally involved
with her sister Suky in 1981. The 1960's plot of the film CIAO!MANHATTAN is
strange in that it is a precognition of my own actual affair with Suky in
the 1980s - including the "men in black" types in limosines.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:24:52 EST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem) writes:
> Sad but true: this really has to a moderated group.  It reminds me
> of gradeschool, where a teacher would give the kids quite a bit of
> rope until the "bad apples" hung the rest of the class.
>
> There seems to be quite a group of people ready to jump ship (me
> among them).  Maybe we should just go find our own sandbox to play
> in.
> --

I know. I *really* enjoyed this group earlier this year, until "July 4,
Spiritual Independence Day" happened. After that, this group has gone
straight down the toilet.

Incidentally, I don't have rn and my news reader doesn't have a kill
option, so I am stuck wading through nonsense to try to find an intelligent
(well, at least interesting :) thread...

-Garrett


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13385 alt.alien.visitors:12184 sci.skeptic:36323
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!guru.med.cornell.edu!phydeaux
From: [e-mail] (Dave Weingart)
Subject: Re: Tunnels #1.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: guru.med.cornell.edu
Nntp-Posting-User: @cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University Medical College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:01:19 GMT
Lines: 22

Doug Thompson ([e-mail]) wrote:
: As for an arch-wanker, well Canadians are just too polite. Quite
: polite actually :-).  In referring to someone whom an American would
: unabashedly declare to be full of shit and whom a Brit would denounce
: as a wanker, a Canadian would shake his (or her) head, look a little
: embarassed and shy and venture "it makes you wonder, eh?"

Actually, what I found most peculiar about Canadians and politeness
was the unwillingness to cross the street before a green OK, even
when there's clearly no traffic for miles in any given direction.
(Here in New York, we charge out into oncoming traffic whether there's
a green or not).

This may eventually have an evolutionary effect on the species, producing
a new species of Homo Newyorkis, with a genetic resistance to be flattened
by several tons of oncoming steel.  (See?  I kept it on-topic! B{) )

--
73 de David Weingart  KB2CWF    In the event I am captured or killed, the
[e-mail]       Cornell University Medical College and the
[e-mail]   Department of Academic Computing will disavow
[e-mail]      any knowledge of my opinions.
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2649 alt.paranormal:6224 alt.conspiracy:21214 sci.skeptic:36331 alt.alien.visitors:12185
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!jjs40
From: [e-mail] (John Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A note on Edie Sedgwick, UFOs & Sarfatti Papers
Message-ID: <378=[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:23:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 8

In article <C00KBA.Dty>, [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
>Another interesting coincidence.

Your postings read like a bad Philip K Dick novel.

--
John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development.      Email: [e-mail]
Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA.                  Phone: [phone]
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34702 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2654 sci.skeptic:36344 alt.paranormal:6227 alt.conspiracy:21227 alt.alien.visitors:12186
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Precognition mechanism of mathematical discovery?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:51:30 GMT
Lines: 22


re-posted from WELL conference on mathematical discovery:

Are you all aware of what Penrose thinks in Emperor's New Mind?
I conjecture that mathematical forms are actually intelligent and create
themselves using the quantum connection backward in time violating David
Deutsch's basic principle of the philosophy of science. You know the
mathematician has a precognition of his discovery that pops into her
consciousness - prior training is needed to recognize the significance of
the message from the future etc.

What we have learned is that a formal model of this can be made but it
involves a minimal generalization of present day standard quantum mechanics
to allow a non-fatal kind of non-unitarity in the time evolution that still
conserves probabilities. This is analogous to the non-fatal globally self
consistent causality violation that time machine traversable wormholes
permit according to Kip Thorne et-al.

This model of mathematical creation as precognition is actually consistent
with Penrose's phenomenology in Emperor's New Mind. The world of Platonic
Forms are, in this model, intelligent programs that form the Mind of God and
that communicate backwards in time to our minds.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13390 alt.alien.visitors:12187 alt.religion.kibology:5531
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!csar!chattend
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Hattendorf)
Subject: Re: Desert.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:35:39 GMT
Lines: 15

[e-mail] writes:

>Lord willing and if the creek don't rise, I'm going to the desert for
>a few days.
>John Winston
Hi John,
    Bad news.....it's raining here and the creek has risen! I
imagine it's even colder/wetter there (in Death Valley) than here,
hope you find what you're looking for!

*    Charlie Hattendorf       Realtime Computer support -       /|            *
* Technical Representative         While you wait!             /-|MIGA works. *
*  619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD    "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool *
* internet: [e-mail]    would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries *
* views expressed are mine(d) alone.     "There's AU in 'dem 'thar hills..."  *
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12188 alt.conspiracy:21232 sci.skeptic:36354
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mcsun!fuug!fipnet!diode.fipnet.fi!elfuerte!harry
From: [e-mail] (Harri Pesonen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:13:13 GMT
Organization: Fipnet, Helsinki, Finland
Lines: 19
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article ??? [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> > Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
> > yet. The battle is not won yet.
> > John Winston.
>
> This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
> ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.
>
> It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
> contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
> anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.

This idiot is the only reason why I read this group.  Gary Stollman was
another, but I think John is even better!

--
    Harri Pesonen               [e-mail]
    Helsinki, Finland, EC?      Markka is floating...  1 USD = 5.1 FIM
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mcsun!fuug!fipnet!diode.fipnet.fi!elfuerte!harry
From: [e-mail] (Harri Pesonen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:13:14 GMT
Organization: Fipnet, Helsinki, Finland
Lines: 19
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article ??? <[e-mail]> writes:
> I too propose that a moderated newsgroup be formed.  It seems that
> John Winston gets a kick out of annoying people.  It has also been
> proposed that we just ignore him.  This obviously hasn't worked since
> many people are still publicly responded to his net posts.  So let's
> form a new MODERATED newsgroup.
> Ethan Haslett

I don't understand this.  Would you form a moderated newsgroup so that John
Winston couldn't post anymore?

I think that this group is just the right place for people like John and
people who like to read his posts.  If you don't want to read his posts,
add him to your kill file or stop reading this group.  After that we all
are happy.

--
    Harri Pesonen               [e-mail]
    Helsinki, Finland, EC?      Markka is floating...  1 USD = 5.1 FIM
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12190 alt.conspiracy:21234 sci.skeptic:36355
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:20:19 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 79

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>> Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
>>> yet. The battle is not won yet.
>>> John Winston.
>>
>>This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
>>ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.
>>
>>It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
>>contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
>>anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.
>>
>>Just today this idiot has posted over 15 2 or 3 line posts of meaningless
>>drivel.
>>
>>-Garrett
>I enjoy alt.alien.visitors but have the same complaint.  This Winston person
>floods the newsgroup with his one-liners, and they aren't even relevent
>to anything else that has been posted.
>
>I've seen the AI-experiment theory put forth as an explanation to many of the
>more stupid things posted on the net.
>Simon
>

[ long quoted section kept intact to maintain proper context ]

I have such a user on the Fido UFO echo..he is called "John Walkin" . But
the difference is that on the echo, I'm the Moderator and I regularly
post the echo rules. An infraction of those rules will get you a warning
notice from me, 3 and your feed gets cut. Mr. Walkin has recv'd one such
notice already.

I don't post much on alt.alien.visitors any more because the noise level
is so high it isn't worth my time or effort. I've halfway monitored the
attempts by some users of aav to either moderate that newsfroop or split
it altogether into separate groups. Because these are "alt*" newsgroups,
you're going to have a certain level of anarchy right from the beginning.

Based upon my recent lurks in aav, I've made the determination that the
Fido UFO echo  (largest backbone UFO echo in existence) is NOT going to
be run like the chaos on here. On ParaNet, or MUFONET, such behaviour
of twits is -not- allowed. While much of a case can be made for having
such wide open access in the alt* groups, unless you have strong individuals
who are willing to take on the initiative themselves to make attempts
at direction of topics (and there are a few) and also to remind people
that access doesn't give them license to ABUSE other users, then you
can pretty much expect to continue wading through all the garbage,
and putting up with the antics of people like John Winston. Only when you
have _order_ in a newsgroup can the genuinely interested users begin
to have some semblance that the flamers,idiots and twits will not
interrupt discussions and detract from the topic at hand. Idiots who
login to post meaningless and otherwise non sequitor remarks SHOULD
be taken on by peer pressure, for that is the closest thing that you have
here to a "moderator".

While a *moderated* UFO newsgroup(s) would significantly reduce the noise,
I have tremendous compassion for the individual who would undertake such
a job for it will be a full time endeavor and his mailbox will be full
at all times. It also saddens me that IF such a thing does come to pass,
then a loss of sponteneity will, I think happen to a degree. But that
is the price you pay for a minimum of noise and a maximum of user
enjoyment. No one wins in a pointless flame war; it eats up way too much
bandwidth and usually makes fools out of the people involved. This is
why Rule #1 on a Fido echo is "No Flaming".

Anyways, those are just a few of my ramblings, for what it's worth :-)

Don



--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12191 alt.conspiracy:21236 sci.skeptic:36358
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 01:10:55 EST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Harri Pesonen) writes:
> In article ??? [e-mail] writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> > Dear Folks: I wouldn't recommend that you all go to sleep too soundly
>> > yet. The battle is not won yet.
>> > John Winston.
>>
>> This idiot's replies have all the ingenuity of a C- AI class project. Winston's
>> ramblings would probably make a decent random number generator.
>>
>> It is time to moderate this group to get this shit out the group. He
>> contributes *nothing* except weird cryptic messages that mean nothing to
>> anyone. I used to enjoy this group earlier this year.
>
> This idiot is the only reason why I read this group.  Gary Stollman was
> another, but I think John is even better!
>

Well, in that case then perhaps we need a alt.fan.john-winston newsgroup, I
have never read anything in his posts which have anything to do with
alien.visitors.

Since I don't have kill abilities with my newsreader I guess I will just stop
reading this group since the content doesn't grok with the newsgroup
title anymore.

It worked John! I am leaving.

-Garrett


> --
>     Harri Pesonen               [e-mail]
>     Helsinki, Finland, EC?      Markka is floating...  1 USD = 5.1 FIM

Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2656 alt.conspiracy:21238 alt.alien.visitors:12192 sci.skeptic:36359 alt.paranormal:6229
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Pagels Phenomenon? Part 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 05:42:27 GMT
Lines: 108


Sarfatti responds to:
I prefer not to get into these flames but these people refuse to moderate
themselves. Boswell conveniently forgot to mention that my "threat" to call
in the police and the Feds was in response to his explicit threat to have
me killed!

I have never initiated flames or threats but only responded to those
initiated against me.  Oh what the hell - here we go again!

From:  (Brett McInnes)
Subject: Re: Professionalism
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:39:08 GMT


Well, you see, Jack, I was just reading one of your posts when I got a
telephone call with this hard-metallic voice claiming to be a computer
called SPECTRE. I then--as you put it--"seemed compelled" to cross-post it
to sci.physics. By the way, SPECTRE seemed really pissed that you were
apparently afraid that these revelations might sully your reputation as a
serious physicist. I assured it, of course, that this thought had never
entered your mind.

You were right about that Brett!  I do the Will of SAR!  I am merely an
instrument, a channel, a scribe!

SPECTRA (not SPECTRE) is the term used by Andrija Puharich in URI for the
alleged AI intelligence from a space-ship. "The Nine" is also used and it
played a significant role in the shennangans at Esalen with the Soviets in
late 70's.  I have never claimed that what happened to me in 1952 was what
it said it was. But I have truthfully described the facts of the
experience.

From:  (Brad Kepley)
Subject: Re: Scientific Truth Is Not Found in Threats
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:50:31 GMT
Bravo!  Sarfatti's threats were the most incredible thing I have ever seen.
I thought it was a joke!

Yes, kepley it was a joke and the joke is on you Goofy!  If you did not
exist, I would have had to invent you! Sarfatti.

You have a Nazi mentality Mr. Sarfatti.

It's HERR DOKTOR SARFATTI to you toots!
How can I have a Nazi mentality when I am a direct descendent of Solomon
ha-Zarfati a.k.a. Rashi de Troyes (1040-1105). Ask David Padwa of Agri-
Genetics in Santa Fe or Albuquerque NM if you don't believe me - he's the
one who told me.  My relative, Margherita Sarfatti trained Benito Mussolini
as a youth not Adolph Hitler. Don't you know the difference between a North
German Nazi and a good Italian-Jewish Fascist?  It was FDR's cousin, Putzi
Sedgwick-Hanfstaengl who was Adolph's piano player and court jester. Get
your facts straight keply!

Add me to the list of those you intend to sue I guess!

Sue? No way. I'm sending my boys Vito and Dominic to you with a free ticket
to a fat farm in Bosnia run by the Chetniks!

If anyone requires legal aid to protect themselves against legal action

"legal action" who needs it - I got "quantum action" at a distance from the
future, from the elsewhere- and you can't defend against it. What are you
going to do go to the coppers and tell them you're a victim of voodoo?
It's all cargo cult pseudo-science - it's not real you see!   Pagels
assured us of that in Cosmic Code - never mind that he fell off the
mountain after dreaming about it and recording his dream at the end of
Cosmic Code.  I hope you're luckier than Pagels.

Have you seen Q on Star Trek - The Next Generation? I'm sort of like that.

from anyone on the Net, I hope we can all pitch in to help them.

Help them? I'm the one who needs help!  Send me money!

I think we need to start a news group concerned with providing aid to
anyone sued by one of these fascists.

You gotta admit they had nice looking uniforms and good marching music -
and that goose-stepping is good exercise and it's getting popular again.
"It's spring time for Hitler in Germany ..." (Mel Brooks) Say who was the
sour kraut who posted the joke about the uniforms in sci.physics?
He's a good addition to this mad crew!

<cooling down now>

Here Goofy - take some valium!

Is this a joke? (Sarfatti)

Correction to the song:

"Oh crucify me on the lone prarie
with the blood drippin down my side,
Then I can say that I died in the way that
Christ Our Savior died!

Oh don't throw sticks
and don't throw stones
For they're against the rules,
Just hang me up on a wooden cross
with the stakes stick'n through my shoes.
For I want fame and I want my name
On the lips of a billion fools!"
by the late Robert Bashlow written for me in 1952

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:13:46 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 71

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Well, I just had a thought after reading several posts against a
>moderated newsgroup: Maybe John Winston is doing his crap to steer this
>group towards it being moderated.  How's that for a conspiracy?
>I guess the solution that might work best without using a moderator is just
>to ignore John Winstons.  This means everybody has to MODERATE themselves and
>restrain from flaming John Winston and those like him.
>Ethan Haslett
>[e-mail]

Pardon me..I've been lurking again :}

Seems to me that you've hit upon something here. Let me expand upon it
a bit..I said something alone these same lines in alt.conspiracy.

What is it that you supervise in people? You only supervise that which
is worthless. It's only =responsible= people who do not need to be
"supervised/moderated". Idiots,fools,flamers and just plain twits
MUST BE "supervised"..(kinda like children you know?) . Only the
absolutely clueless refuse to perceive what peer pressure is trying
to tell them. Now, John Winston doesn't bother me because I generally
ignore him..I don't have the time for pointless head games. He may
be a complete idiot or just some one who has gotten all of your "goats".

I do know this - When you see obvious flame bait, try ignoring it next
time. The poster usually lives for LIVE responses and when they aren't
forthcoming figures that no one is interested any more. Do this enough
and you will reclaim the newsgroup back. Tried reasoning and failed?

Use email to his site and include numerous examples of the offender's
writing. Failing that, play stuff-his-mailbox with LARGE files (naw
don't do that..just kidding).

ONE of you must take the initiative and DO SOMETHING. Don't wait
for "someone" else to do anything. Even if that means, creating
a separate newsgroup and even discussion amonsgt yourselves as
to WHO would make a GOOD moderator. Generate consensus. Take action.

Otherwise, keep bitchin' and moaning and getting nowhere.

I quit posting here because I just don't have time anymore for idiotic
responses and children's reactions. I would be tremendously encouraged
to send a moderator a bunch of files (I have tons and tons).

And for those who lurk here waiting for "proof"...try doing something
like research on your own. Read books. Visit UFO BBS's..get to know
the Fido Net UFO echoes (Paranet, Mufonet, Odyssey, Fido UFO) where
BS like Mr Winston is *not* allowed. There's wayyyyy too much noise
on this newsgroup anymore to be of any use. My recommendation is to
KILL IT and start a MODERATED group up. You can grit your teeth and
continue slugging it out here, or.......

Incidentally, Mr Winston would have three chances on *my* echo and
then I'd kill his feed, if he persisted. Poof! Gone..


                      Don Allen
                  FidoNet UFO Echo Moderator
                  1:123/26.1 - MUFONET







--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12194 alt.conspiracy:21243 sci.skeptic:36365
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!jec310.its.rpi.edu!kasprj
From: [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: jec310.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: The Big Wedge
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:08:34 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tad Cook) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|> >Dear One and All: I believe that you will find that the Great And
|> >Noble Kibo understands me quite well.
|> >John Winston.
|>
|>
|> ah-HA!!!!  The cat is finally out of the bag.  Has John ever posted such
|> an obvious hint that it is ALL a joke....that he is just screwing with
|> our heads?

 I wouldn't bet on it. Many people have underestimated the power of Kibo
and Kibology and wound up looking very silly as a result. If you really
want to believe that it's a joke... YOU'RE ALLOWED!

 But don't say you haven't been warned.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: [e-mail] or [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!psinntp!dorsai.com!idealord
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington)
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:01:54 GMT
Lines: 38

[e-mail] (Harri Pesonen) writes:

> In article ??? <[e-mail]> writes:
> > I too propose that a moderated newsgroup be formed.  It seems that
> > John Winston gets a kick out of annoying people.  It has also been
> > proposed that we just ignore him.  This obviously hasn't worked since
> > many people are still publicly responded to his net posts.  So let's
> > form a new MODERATED newsgroup.
> > Ethan Haslett
>
> I don't understand this.  Would you form a moderated newsgroup so that John
> Winston couldn't post anymore?
>
> I think that this group is just the right place for people like John and
> people who like to read his posts.  If you don't want to read his posts,
> add him to your kill file or stop reading this group.  After that we all
> are happy.
>
> --
>     Harri Pesonen               [e-mail]
>     Helsinki, Finland, EC?      Markka is floating...  1 USD = 5.1 FIM

Once again - not everyone is running tin or rn and have kill files!  Some
of us are stuck running awful waffle and have no idea who posted
something.  All we see are "RE: Spiritual Independence Day."

This topic warrants a area free from the domination of anyone!  Let's
keep alt.alien.visitors and start a moderated news group alt.ufo or
something.  This way JW can keep doing his thing and people without kill
files can do theirs!

Whatever happened to Gary anyway?  At least he was fun - better than this
Saffari guy (please don't sue me Jack - I can't spell ;-)


Jeff Harrington
IdEAL ORDER
[e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!emoryu1!libwca
From: [e-mail] (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:54:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
Lines: 16
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

[e-mail] writes:
: Well, I just had a thought after reading several posts against a
: moderated newsgroup: Maybe John Winston is doing his crap to steer this
: group towards it being moderated.  How's that for a conspiracy?
: I guess the solution that might work best without using a moderator is just
: to ignore John Winstons.  This means everybody has to MODERATE themselves and
: restrain from flaming John Winston and those like him.
: Ethan Haslett
: [e-mail]

Winston's articles take up a lot less bandwidth than the endless
diatribes calling for his death by painful torture, etc.  I
happen to think he's funny, but if he annoys everybody, why not
just ignore him, in the hope that he'll get bored and move on?

Bill
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!emoryu1!libwca
From: [e-mail] (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:06:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
Lines: 21
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

[e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem) writes:
:
: Sad but true: this really has to a moderated group.  It reminds me
: of gradeschool, where a teacher would give the kids quite a bit of
: rope until the "bad apples" hung the rest of the class.
:
: There seems to be quite a group of people ready to jump ship (me
: among them).  Maybe we should just go find our own sandbox to play
: in.
: --

If you find someone who agrees to moderate it, you've found
either a (Wo)Man without Fear or a complete fool.  Moderating
a group like this would inevitably lead to vicious flame wars,
accusations of attachment to various intelligence agencies,
and a million other distinctly unpleasant things.  Of course,
the whole think would occur off-screen, as it were, so you'd
have the appearance of harmony...

Bill

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13394 alt.alien.visitors:12198 sci.skeptic:36371
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: He's Back.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:17:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I'm back from my trip to Death Valley. I had a wonderful
time.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13395 alt.alien.visitors:12199 sci.skeptic:36372
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Bolivia Encounter.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:22:11 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 126

1>+m%(((((
)Subject: Trinidad Encounter:
 Not only do people from Calif. have encounters but people from Trinidad,
Bloivia also have them. The following is some information passed to me from
Kumar and Walter P. It is a letter sent from a person to some of his friends
explaining his meeting some space people. So here we go; It is now January
1976. and during my travels over the world, I have now come to Trinidad. My
place is at the Marmone river in the Llas de Mojos in Bolivia.  I am here
three days now, and have already realized many very interesting things. I
have typed many pages of my impressions and experiences. But, yesterday,
early in the morning, I had an experience which nearly made me "jump out of
my boots".  I first considered it a halluciation or a tropical frenzy,
before I could convince myself of being well. Perhaps you will feel the same
when you read these lines. But you know well that I am no dreamer, and thus
you simply have  to believe me, though this will surely be difficult for
you.  It is all so crazy that even today I search for mistakes in my brains
and even consider the possibility of dreaming. But, nevertheless all happend
exactly as I write this to you, still clear in my impressions of yesterday's
events, whech simply was unbelieveable even for me. I cannot express it
otherwise. Do not consider me crazy or ill, for I am nether the one nor the
other. I am as normal as you, and as well not addicted to fantisies, as you
well know. But now let me tell you my experience of yeaterday."
  "It was just 5 o'clock in the morning when I rolled out of my bed and began
to prepare for going this day to the far environs of Trinidad.  About 10
minutes after getting up, I observed something in the morning sky which I
simply could not believe.  I had already read and heard about flying
saucers, but never gave them much thought or consideration, and never
beeieved them to be real. I always thought such assertions were jokes. But
now, very clamly and without noise, such a flying object passed over
Trinidad, descended more and more, and finally disappeared somewhere behind
the trees of the forest. I believed myself dreaming and rubbed my eyes, as
this simply could not be true, what I had just seen. From my standing
position the object looked like two laid together, semi-rounded great discs,
just like a discus looks."
  "At first I sat down for a while and deliberated. Perhaps I should return to
civilization and have myself examined by a medic. But then I decided that I
had better examine the occureence more thoroughly before I should decide on
that step. I took my compass then and determined the direction where I had
seen the object going down. Then I packed a bundle and marched out, always
checking the direction by the compass. This was nearly east. With much
trouble and sweat I penetrated the environment  and made it through the
rankly growing backwood, on and always on. It seemed I would never get
there, and I already wanted to give up and return. I was threee or more
hours on the way and still had found nothing, and so I must have suffered a
hallucination.  From my calculations I should have come upon the object by
now if it really had landed. I was breathing heavily and soaked with sweat
and wanted to go back. In spite of that, I did not turn around, for
something forced me irresistibly forwards. It seemed I was a magnet, which I
simply could not resist. This might have continued for another half an hour.
I finally decided I was crazy, because I suddenly realized something very
big and metallic glittering through the bushes.  At first I was paralyzed in
unbelief, then got control of myself and struggled through the last of the
barriers. Once more I considered this a dream, because in a clearing was
floating, only about one meter above the ground, a great discus of metal,
certainly 14 or 15 meters in diameter. There was no noise, or else the tomes
were inaudible, and yet this discus floated free above the ground simply in
the air, like I was tied up. I stood there, only about 20 meters away from
the object and stared unbelieving. I could not think any more. I also could
not walk. I am used to a lot in all my travels, and not easily disturbed,
but this, I realized, just paralyzed me. This simply could not be true,
becuse it just could not exist."
End Part 1.
John Winston.





















































terday, early in thmwm
,
xqx3    xgxtxxxx    xx
xxx
xxxxx<!x#x%x'x)x
+x-x/x1x3x5x7x9x;x=x?xAxC
xExGx<GIxKxMxOxQxSxUxWxYx
[x]x_xaxcxexgxixkxmxox<
0Roman 10cpite this to you, still clear in my impressions of yesterday's
events, whech simply was unbelieveable even for
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13396 alt.alien.visitors:12200
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Death Valley Days.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:24:46 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 53

Subject A Little Trip.
  I just got back from a trip to Death Valley and had a wonderful time. I went
to Furnace Creek and looked up at the Pinamint Mountain Range to try to find
the Arches that were said to be in the sides of the mountains that were made
by a previous civilization of people. I had been told by a dowsers person
that the Arches had been covered by a land slide and were now under about 2
feet of rock and other material. I had made a dowsing rod and taught how to
use it. I directed it towards the mountain and did get a positive pick up.
My son and I then went up a road to get closer to the mountains and got on
our borrowed trail bikes but they wouldn't start although we had operated
them two days before.
  Our next attempt was to go up the back side of the mountains by going up
Emigrant Road up to a Agureberry Point. We got up there OK and climbed over
the side of the mountain at about the 6,300 feet level. It had been snowing
and about 3 inches of snow was on the ground with high winds.  We were going
along pretty good till a cloud started coming over us and we turned back.
  It might be better to try it in May or June when it's not raining, snowing,
high winds and cold.
  Our next project was to find the cabin where Charles Manson (the leader of
the group of people who had murdered Sharon Tate, the movie star back in
1969). We finally found it by taking Emigrant Road over to a ghost town
called Balarat. This is right on the north side of the Naval Weapons Testing
Center. We even went past one of their remote radars when going into the
ghost town. The fighter jets fly so low that in the ghost town there is a
large black dog who chases the jets just like other dogs chase cars. That
dog in convienced that he is chasing off the jets when he runs after them.
It's quite a funny sight to see.  From the ghost town we went down a rough
road for 15 miles and then up a four wheel drive vehicle, high clearance
road, for 4.1 miles to the east. I have a 4 wheel drive Toyota pickup so we
made it OK. We then came to a mining company where a person by the name of
Keith Lensey lives and he told us (my son Dave and I) about some of his
experiences of seeing weird things out on the Death Valley Lake. Things like
once he saw something going on out on the lake that looked like a carnaval
with lights going on and when he went out to it some of the lights started
going out and all the other lights started going up together in the sky.
  Keith told me that I should go about 1 and a half more blocks down the road
and turn to the right at some trees.  There used to be an ex-marine in the
area that was somewhat crazy. He used to come out and put a gun on you and
make you salute the flag and then you would have to give him a couple of
dollars, then he would allow you to come into the area. A few years back he
and his dog were found burned up in his cabin.  It was getting dark now and
just about 300 years past some low hanging tree that have some weid looking
birds or bats in them we found the Manson cabin.  This cabin is actually
called the Myer Place and is own by the Myer family. They let people use it
as long and you leave it the way you found it. It is a rock house with a
kitchen, front room and one or more bedrooms. It was said that Manson and
his lady friends had come in with a bus containing a lot of clothes. As they
would use the clothes and get them dirty they would throw them away and put
on some more clothes out of the bus. Manson was captured by being found in
the kitchen right hand cabinet where he was hiding. He was then put in the
Independence, Calif. jail.
  So that is part of my experiences during the trip to Death Valley.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13397 alt.alien.visitors:12201
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:25:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Folks: Oh yea I did make it back from Death Valley in one piece.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34748 alt.conspiracy:21257 sci.skeptic:36373 alt.paranormal:6231 alt.alien.visitors:12202
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Evidence for advanced causation.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:47:54 GMT
Lines: 34


Some one just e-mailed me asking for evidence that creation from the future
is not a matter of faith but a scientic conjecture subject to falsification
according to the Popper test. Briefly, impressionistically the clues - and
they are only clues that appeal to our Sherlock Holmes bent:

1. the fact that there is a universe at all with all the cosmic coincidences
needed for life see Fred Hoyle The Intelligent Universe and Barrow and
Tipler's The Anthropic Cosmological Principle.

2. Wheeler's choice expt, Aspect's experiment, Wheeler-Feynman classical EM,
Cramer's transactional interpretation of QM. Aharonov's double time QM and
time machines, Kip Thorne's traversable wormhole time machines in GR,
legends of prophecy, subjective precognitive experiences, feelings of Divine
Inspiration felt universally by all poets, artists, great scientists etc.
- how's that for a start - all clues in a great mystery               .

Finally, we have seen in the course of the discussion here in the past few
months that while I was wrong that standard QM permits quantum connection
communication of the "quantum eraser" type in which

VV+HH -> V(V+H)

so that light initially unpolarized for one local detector is controllably
polarized by tweaking the twin detector system (transmitter - which can be
in time like future of receiver detection event). Nevertheless, a minimal
generalization of standard quantum mechanics to permit off-diagonal non-
unitarity does permit this transformation in a way that still conserved the
locally detectable probabibilites. That si, it appears tentatively that
while unitarity is a sufficient condition to conserve quantum probability it
is not necessary - a weaker condition will work. The next question is
whether Nature implements such a non-unitary time evolution - is it a
property of complex chaotic macro-quantum systems in the nonlinear regime
far from thermal equilibrium for example?
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sgiblab!west.msi!katie!greg
From: greg@katie (Greg Wells)
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:21:30 GMT
Lines: 12

[e-mail] wrote:
: Well, I think it is come time to start a moderated Ufology group. Winston
: is scaring away an relevent discussions.
:
: Does anyone know how to set up a moderated group?
:
: -Garrett
:
:
Agreed.  I am interested in science. Not bullshit.

Greg Wells
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sgiblab!west.msi!katie!greg
From: greg@katie (Greg Wells)
Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:03:52 GMT
Lines: 31

Chuck Stringer ([e-mail]) wrote:
: And who'll moderate it? Someone completely impartial? Yeah,  right. In
: a  news  group  that  discusses  something  thats  very  existence  is
: questionable, a moderator would have too much influence  over the free
: exchange of ideas. Who is to say what is fiction and what is fact when
: the  entire  discussion  is  based on conjecture?  Sure  most  of John
: Winston's  articles are ridiculous,  they're still more interesting to
: read than pointless arguing about trivial issues.
:
: ----
: Chuck Stringer
: E-mail [e-mail]

Fine. You can continue to read Winston's postings in this group.  The
current group is inadequate for many of us.  The current group clearly has
more than one discussion, we need to the sort the discussions in interest of
clarity.

Your fear of censorship deserves consideration.  We can start a new discussion
with rules for posting agreed upon by people on all sides of the debate
who have a common interest in a method based on scientific inquiry.

I believe your statement "the entire discussion is based on conjecture" is
false.  People see flying objects we cannot identify; that is an imperical
fact.  If we assume only conjecture can come from imperical fact, then we
must toss out the entire history of science.

There are answers.  I want them.

Greg Wells
[e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cie.uoregon.edu!christ
From: [e-mail] (Christian G. Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mass sighting in Mexico?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:48:10 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cie.uoregon.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

  I was talking to someone on IRC about UFO's last night and they said
that several weeks ago (at least, maybe more) there was some humungo
mass-sighting over Mexico which 50k-500k people whitnessed.  That it
was all over the media when it happened (except of course in the US)
and that I could ask anyone and maybe even a TV station and get some
tape shot of this craft (which allegedly landed then took off again).
  I haven't subscribed to a.a.v in a while, those Zeta Grey and crystal
freaks really took this place down a couple of notches, but if there's
any "truth" (heh, I know, a relative term) I'd like to know.

  Thank you +very+ much,

-christian

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman
From: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: ENUF IS ENUF. TIME FO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 11:41:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Lines: 23


-> FROM: [e-mail]
-> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
-> Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
-> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
-> Date: 29 Dec 92 01:24:52 EST
-> References: <[e-mail]>
-> Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

-> Incidentally, I don't have rn and my news reader doesn't have a kill
-> option, so I am stuck wading through nonsense to try to find an
-> intelligent (well, at least interesting :) thread...

Here here!  I don't have software with a killfile either.  I godddamn
sick of hearing "Put it in your killfile" everytime somebody complains
about something on Usenet.  Its rather like being an ostrich and
sticking your head in the sand even if you do have a killfile!!!!

----
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13399 alt.alien.visitors:12207 alt.religion.kibology:5537
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:56:20 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Greetings to One and All: I made it back from my trip and have not
missing part so I guess I'm OK.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13400 alt.alien.visitors:12208 alt.religion.kibology:5538
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Rap Music Singing Aliens.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:58:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 54

Subject: The Greys, Friend or Foe?
   In the past I always thought that the Greys were just a bunch of almond
eyed, grey colored, little creeps. After reading the following information
from Kumar and Walter P. I may have to change my mind. So here we go with
the information; The Greys are here for basically one puroose: To create a
new race of beings.  Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they
are a cross between the Greys and Earth humans.  The reason whey these
Hybrids are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours.
In order to explain how the hybrids will save us both, and explain the
rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and their
features should be made:
These extraterrestrials are called the Greys because of how they look. A
typical Grey alien is about 3-4 feet tall, has whiteish-grey skin and no
hair, a large head with small facial features, and large black lidless eyes.
 They come from a place fnown as Zeta Reticulum, and are part of a larger
Confederation of Planets known as the "Network".  They are actually quite
small and frail, although can move swiftly, in motions that would appear to
us jerky.  Just as there are different races of humans on Earth, so are
there a few different types of Greys: For instance some have more brownish
skin or other varying features, and not all reside in that particular solar
system. Although the Greys have only been actively doing abductions and
other work for the past few decades (similar to the over 100 races that have
taken up observation since 1945) they have actually been  in contact with
Earth for the last several centuries, their influence going back almost as
long as that of the Pleiadians.

Actually the term "Grey" (I like to call the Grey aliens "Greylians" for
short.) for this race of extraterrestrials is appropriate for another
reason: their disposition. The Greys have a "live" mentality, and are
completely devoted to the needs of their collective race.  They work
together expremely well, and have little sense  of ego or personal
individuality.  They are basically all the same, and to us would seem dreary
and boring.  (I have a couple of examples of channeled messages from the
Reticulum itself, that I might post if their's interest; although very
interesting material on the abductions from *their* point of view, is always
written in a dry and unflowing manner.) There are virtually no disagreements
among them of any kind, since they all serve the collective needs. The Greys
are hence very unemotional, and behave much like Spock or Data would on Star
Trek.  (Ever see a Grey smile? I haven't, and I think they should more
often.)

Some might think that the Greys are a reptilian race, but this isn't true.
Rather they are an insect-like race.  Some say the Greys look a lot like
giant insects, and I believe that is perhaps part of their history - a
highly evolved insect race.  This accounts not only for jerky movements, but
their unemotional and hard working collective mentality.  The contents of my
earlier posts said they are like humanized robots which are working for a
few manificent Angelic beings.  These master aliens could in our insect
analogy play the role of the "gueens". An interesting piece of trivia is
that, according to one source, the influence of the Greys in our society has
been expressed through the introduction of Rap music, and although I can't
verify anything, this music would probably fit them well.
End Part 1.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36376 sci.physics:34768 alt.alien.visitors:12209 alt.paranormal:6232 alt.conspiracy:21265
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm
From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Sarfatti Forteana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:39:43 GMT
Lines: 27



Jack Sarfatti mentioned in one of his postings that his name was
derived from the Hebrew "tsarfati" ("French", from "Tsarfat = France"),
Italianized.


"Tsarfat" is, in fact, probably derived from "France" itself, backwards:

ts-a-r-f <-- f-r-a-n-ts (with regular loss of "n" [note]. The ending -at
of "Tsarfat" does not belong to the root, it's simply a feminine
suffix. "Ts" is a single letter in Hebrew).


If that is indeed the true etymology of "Tsarfat", it would be the only
case I know of (and I'm into comparative linguistics) where a word has
been borrowed backwards. A most serendipitous patronym, shouldn't you
think, for someone who says that causality can go *backwards*?

Roots of coincidence!


[Note] Hebrew loses the nasal dental "n" preceding another dental. See,
for instance, tarngol hoddu "turkey" literally, "hen of 'Hoddu'" <--
hindu "India", and the paradigm of the verb "to give".


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna
From: [e-mail] (Anna Anderson)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Organization: Home Improvement
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:35:09 GMT
Lines: 8


alt.alien.visitors is the perfect place for John Winston's tales.

However, I propose that a new group "alt.sightings" be made, and
that it be moderated by Don Allen.
--
Anna

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious Processing and Handling of AAV Info
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:57:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 13


    [e-mail] (Duncan D. Sterling) writes:
    A question for all the serious posters on AAV-- is there an
    information "clearinghouse" for all the stuff I've seen posted
    here?

... nope, not to my knowledge. There is at least one archive of aav,
but that's not quite what you're asking for, of course.    There is
the aav faq, which is a step in the right direction, but I wish you
good luck (if you were to try and put together  what you're looking
for) in setting it up and keeping it up to date.

Charles
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36392 sci.physics:34789 alt.alien.visitors:12212 alt.paranormal:6234 alt.conspiracy:21277
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!math.ksu.edu!deadend
From: [e-mail] (Francis Fung)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Sarfatti Forteana
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:52:34 -0600
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Kansas State University
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hilbert.math.ksu.edu

That's a neat thing you mentioned about the possibility
of a word being borrowed backwards. I know of no  example
of such either, but a borrowing from French to Hebrew is
a more probable place for such a thing to happen
given the writing directions. Intriguing question.
Incidentally, do you by any chance know the
derivation of the word "Yankee"? Just a non
sequitur. :) Have fun!

Xref: icaen sci.physics:34790 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2665 alt.alien.visitors:12213 alt.paranormal:6235 sci.skeptic:36393
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Star Ship Engineering & Time Travel 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:32:48 GMT
Lines: 85


Comments by Sarfatti:

From: [e-mail] (Matt McIrvin)
Subject: Re: Vacuum-Driven Power Exchange in the Free Electron Gas
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:23:34 GMT
Lines: 51
Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu

[e-mail] (Larry Wall) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eugen
Raicu) wr
ites:
>: I am not very knowledgeable, but I thought the energy of virtual
particles
>: is an effect of the uncertainty principle and is available only on very
>: limited time scales after which it must be given up.

>That's backwards, I think.  The uncertainty principle is a description
>of the way virtual particles make things look.  The virtual particles
>aren't a consequence of the uncertainty principle, except maybe in the
>sense that evolution is a consequence of how we classify various living
>things.  One generally prefers to state it the other way: that how we
>describe things is a consequence of how things came about.

These days it's usually described in a manner closer to Eugen Raicu's; the
virtual particles are artifacts of perturbation theory applied to quantum
field theory, whereas uncertainty relations are a fairly fundamental
consequence of how the quantum theory is set up.

*"artifacts of perturbation theory" ? The Lamb shift and Casimir force are
real effects so I'm not sure what "artifacts" means*

You can see energy as temporarily non-conserved via the time-energy
uncertainty principle if you use the non-covariant formalism of QFT, or
you can use a covariant formalism and treat energy as conserved, but
allow the virtual particles to violate laws of motion.

*Yes, this is why a virtual photon can be spacelike outside the light cone.
It explains the instantaneous action of the Coulomb potential in the rest
frame of the charge. Even when the charge is in motion the Coulomb force
acts faster-than-light - the spacelike action is frame invariant only the
simultaneity and the time order of cause and effect features are not frame
invariant.  That is, an interval between source event 1 and field event 2
outside the light cone in one frame is outside the light cone in every
frame in SR.*

These are different calculational techniques; they describe the same
theory, which is really
quantum field theory as it appears when treated perturbatively.

>In a very real sense, it would appear that there are *no* real particles,
>but *only* virtual particles that, by some clever accounting tricks, add
>up to make it look like there's a real particle here, or maybe there.
>Even the speed of light is not a real barrier to virtual particles--some
>can go faster than that, and some slower, but they all average out
>to make it look like the speed of light is what it is.

>That's basically a layman's interpretation of how Diagram Dick explained
>QED, so the professionals might want to disagree or amplify or obfuscate.

That's a fairly correct description of Feynman's view of the situation,
at least at the time he thought it up.  It's still a correct description
of how diagram calculations work.  It's been somewhat superseded
today in the sense that quantum field theory is now assumed to hold in
areas where perturbation theory doesn't work, such as QCD, so a
diagrammatic
treatment where the virtual particles are the primary objects doesn't
really make sense any more.  The problem, basically, is that if the
coupling constant is too large, the series you get by summing diagrams
becomes hopelessly divergent (you lose even the iffy, fudged-up sort of
convergence that holds otherwise), and you need other ways of handling
the calculations.  The objects on which everything else is based end
up being the quantized fields.

*Yes, but that's only because the starting point for the vacuum structure
is not right. The virtual particles are defined relative to the vacuum
structure. Diagrams relative the correct vacuum should converge.  Phase
transitions between different vacuum structures can release or absorb
energy - ultimately this is how we will amplify traversable wormholes out
of the foam for time travel and power our star ships. (Sarfatti)*

--
Matt McIrvin
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nnelson
From: [e-mail] (Nicholas P Nelson)
Subject: Serious Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:28:33 GMT
Lines: 22


     It looks like you guys could use some relatively serious questions.  Most
of the recent postings have dealth with the antics of JW.
     My question is: What is the best evidence supporting UFOs and alien
visitors?  It is very tough to debate UFOs in a scientific manner.  A lot of
people consider the UFO debate trivial because there is not a single iota of
hard evidence.  The fact that there are a lot of people out there making absurd
and unfounded assertations about UFOs and aliens does not help the cause.  I
maintain that the idea of UFOs can not be immediately dismissed, however, the
lack of hard evidence must be explained.
     Is there a consensus that there is a lack of hard evidence?  If there is
not a consensus then where or what is the hard evidence?  If there is a
consensus, then what in your opinion is the best circumstantial evidence for
the existence of UFOs and alien visitors?
     Personally, I am not convinced that there are aliens roaming the earth to
kidnap people from their homes.  I am not even convinced that alien spacecraft
have visited the earth. I can guarantee that I have an open mind on the
subject.  I would rather see a serious discussion in alt.alien.visitors than
the ramblings of JW and the follow ups to his posts.

Happy New Year,
Nick Nelson
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34792 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2666 alt.alien.visitors:12215 sci.skeptic:36394
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Feynman 44 Is it unitary? Sarfatti predicts new solid state release of vacuum energy based upon Feynman's musings in 1949?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:32:00 GMT
Lines: 93


Feynman 44 QED & renormalization Part VI Feynman has problems with
unitarity and gauge invariance. Sarfatti introduces new idea to release
vacuum energy in solid state physics - it is right?
7. The problem of vacuum polarization
the virtual electron-positron pairs not included in above radiative
corrections to scattering which only dealt with virtual photons emitted and
reabsorbed on the electron worldlines.


                              / real electron p2 hit by virtual photon
                            /
           virtual photon  /
         G ______________/ G
          /\            |
  pa+q  /    \ pa       |
        \    /          |
          \/ A          | real electron p1
  virtual pair "closed loop"

This is the biggest vacuum polarization Feynman diagram in 4-momentum
space. I shall paraphrase a little - the quotes are loose - see original
paper for details.

"The potential Ae^-iqx creates a pair of electrons of momenta pa, -pb. This
pair then reannihilates, emitting a quantum q = pa-pb, which quantum
scatters the original electron from state 1 to state 2. The matrix element
for this process ... is (30)

-(e^2/ipi)(uad2Gu1)S{Tr[(pa/+q/-m)^-1 G(pa/-m)^-1G]d^4pa q^-2 C(q^2)A

... the potential produces the pair with amplitude proportional to AG, the
electrons of momenta pa and -(pa+q) proceed from there to annihilate
producing a quantum (factor G) which propagates (factor q^-2C(q^2)) over to
the other electron, by which it is absorbed (matrix element of G between
states 1 and 2 of the original electron, i.e., (uad2Gu1),. All momenta pa
and spin states of the virtual electron pair are admitted which means the
trace and the d^4pa integral are calculated.

One can imagine that the closed loop path of the positron-electron produces
a (vacuum polarization) current

4piju = JuvAv  (31)

(uv are here are not electron spinors but Lorentz indices ranging from 1 to
4 with summation convention on RHS of 31)

which is the source of the virtual photons which act on the second
electron. One sees .. that

Juv = S{Tr[(pa/+q/-m)^-1 G(pa/-m)^-1G]d^4pa  (32)

diverges very badly. The modification of D to f alters the amplitude with
which the vacuum polarization current will affect the scattered real
electron , but it can do nothing to prevent the divergence ....

***The closed loops are a consequence of the usual hole theory in
electrodynamics (i.e., vacuum structure is a filled Fermi sea of negative
energy electrons propagating forward in time. Lift a negative FIT energy
electron into a positive energy FIT state and the hole left behind is a
postive energy FIT positron - this is the Dirac picture of the QED vacuum
structure. It is similar to non-relavistic ground state of a simple metal
in solid state physics.   The Pauli exclusion principle makes the vacuum
stable. Changing the quantum statistics from Fermi to Bose by changing
dimension from 3+1 to 2+1 using slabs or "quantum wells" would appear to
make the metallic ground state unstable inducing a first order phase
transition releasing energy? -Sarfatti note of 12/30/92)***

Was that an unanticipated telepatype - a message from the future?

Back to Feynman:
"The closed loops are .... required to keep probability conserved. The
probability that no pair is produced by a potential is not unity and its
deviation from unity arises from the imaginary part of Juv. Again with
closed loops excluded, a pair of electrons once created cannot be
annihilated, the scattering of light by light would be excluded etc.....

To be sure, it is always possible that these matters of probability
conservation will work themselves out as simply in the case of interacting
charges as for those in a fixed potential...It would be interesting to
calculat the Lamb shift accurately enough to be sure that the 20 megacylce
expected from vacuum polarization are actually present" Remember this is
1949! Feynmen then talks of intruducing still another convergence factor
for the electrons but he cautions that "the result is unsatisfactory"
because it violates gauge invariance (i.e. local conservation of electric
charge).

to be continued





Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Lou
From: [e-mail] (William Joseph Marriott)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Request for J-W FAQ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 03:15:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Is there an FAQ list for John Winston?

I'll say this about him. I like his signature.

-Bill
 [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ParaNet Press Release
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:06:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 36

JOIN THE MOST INTERESTING HOUR OF TALK RADIO IN NORTH AMERICA!

ParaNet Information Services, a global UFO computer communications network, is
proud to present a new, weekly one-hour talkshow called The ParaNet UFO
CONTINUUM.

Aired via satellite with host Michael Corbin, Director of ParaNet, the program
is dedicated to uncovering the mystery of the UFO enigma featuring scientists,
researchers and witnesses otherwise inaccessible.  Listeners are invited to
phone in with questions over toll-free lines.

Some of the guests to appear on the ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM will be:

Don Ecker, research director of UFO Magazine.

Kevin Randle, co-author of UFO Crash at Roswell.

Linda Moulton Howe, cattle mutilation expert and Emmy award-winning documentary
producer.

And many, many, more!

Presently, this show is heard by an estimated 500,000 listeners via satellite
throughout the United States and Canada, and will expand to other radio markets
in the near future.

The ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM is heard each Sunday evening at 9:00 PM Mountain
Time, 11:00 PM Eastern, via satellite Galaxy Six, Channel 17, Audio Channel 7.5
MHz.

-30-

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: January 3, 1993
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:19:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 30

On  Sunday  evening,  January  3rd,  you  will  be  taken  on  an

incredible  journey back to July 1947.  To Roswell,  New  Mexico,

sight of one of the most important events in the history of  man:

the  crash  of  a disk, alleged to be an  alien  spacecraft,  the

recovery  of  alien  bodies, the subsequent  coverup  by  the  US

government, and more.  Join us on the ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM  with

our guest, Kevin Randle, co-author of UFO Crash at Roswell as  he

tells  of  his incredible investigation  uncovering  the  Roswell

incident.   That's  Sunday  evening,  January  3rd,  at  9:00  PM

Mountain,  11:00  Eastern.  We guarantee that the truth  will  be

stranger than fiction!

Join us on Galaxy Six, Channel 17, Audio 7.5 MHz.

Toll free call in lines are available.

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cwatters
From: [e-mail] (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Semi-moderated newsgroup idea
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Summary: just a thought
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Reply-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:59:18 GMT
Lines: 25

An idea about the proposal to create a new moderated group to replace AAV.

What could be done is to create a "semi-moderated" newsgroup.  It would work
like a normal moderated group, but with the following extensions:

The moderator can create a file of "autoapproved" users, whose articles
will go to the newsgroup w/o further intervention.  This will allow those
posters articles to speedily enter the discussion.

Likewise, the moderator can create a "dump" file of users whose articles
will be sent to /dev/null without ever being read.

The software could also be set up to reject postings below a certain threshold
of size (since so many of the "bad" postings are <10 lines).  These postings
may/may not trigger the sending of an email explaining the rejection.

The moderator would then have to read all the other posts, and approve/reject
on a set of criteria.  Once a poster has a certain number of "approved"
postings, the modeerator should add them to the "autoapproved" process.
The criteria should be set down by the readership during the RFD stage.

-Coyt



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Subject: Re: January 3, 1993
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:04:56 GMT
Lines: 22

Michael,

Will PARANET be making the audio transcripts available to those of us whom
do not access to the Satellite feed?

Then again, mabye we could have JW warm up his astral train & transcribe it
for us;->

Let us know Michael.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13404 alt.alien.visitors:12221 alt.religion.kibology:5547
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 07:29:41 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Folks: I meant to say I have no missing parts. Betty sent me a
mouse and she will probubly be sending a video of mine to Kibo soon.
I hope all of you the best during the next year.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12222 alt.conspiracy:21283 sci.skeptic:36400
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 07:46:51 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Friends: I have read your comments pro and con and will defend
your right to the death to say them.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 07:53:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear People: I'm not an alien. I was born in Texas.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13405 alt.alien.visitors:12224 sci.skeptic:36401
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Psychics Strike Out Again.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 07:14:01 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Folks: I was watching TV last night and lo and behold what did
appear to my unbelieving eyes, was the face of your own Robert
Sheaffer. Mr. Sheaffer was pointing out the fact that many of the
tabloid magazine psychic predictions do not come to pass as predicted.
Well done Robert.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203
From: [e-mail] (David R. Stepien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ParaNet Press Release
Date: 31 Dec 1992 16:43:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (David R. Stepien)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


>The ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM is heard each Sunday evening at 9:00
>PM Mountain Time, 11:00 PM Eastern, via satellite Galaxy Six,
>Channel 17, Audio Channel 7.5 MHz.

What kind of equipment is needed to receive this?

David
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36402 sci.physics:34811 alt.alien.visitors:12226 alt.paranormal:6236 alt.conspiracy:21287
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!newsserver.sfu.ca!rs13-annex3.sfu.ca!palmer
From: Leigh Palmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sarfatti Forteana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Xxmessage-Id: <[e-mail]>
X-Xxdate: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:40:29 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Simon Fraser University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:39:11 GMT
Lines: 29

This is the first occasion on which I have
consciously crossposted, but this topic is
serendipitous (and gratuitous) in sci.physics,
and has long been of interest to me. I'd love
to see the answer (the old OED is a tainted
source on this topic, and I have not seen the
new one) without having to read those other
groups. In the foreknowledge that it is easier
to obtain forgiveness than permission, then...

In article <[e-mail]>
Francis Fung, [e-mail] writes:

>Incidentally, do you by any chance know the
>derivation of the word "Yankee"? Just a non
>sequitur. :) Have fun!

I'll get the ball rolling, if not in the alley,
then on a jocular, um, plane.

"Yankee" is the term applied by politicians to
the gullible marks from whom they extract (or
yank) their ill-gotten tribute. Yankees (and
they proliferate here in Canada, too) continue
to pay their taxes without complaint for fear
the Yankers will deem them illiberal otherwise,
the greatest sin of our age.

Leigh Hunt Palmer
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34814 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2670 alt.alien.visitors:12227 sci.skeptic:36403
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone
From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Re: Feynman 44 Is it unitary? Sarfatti predicts new solid state release of vacuum energy based upon Feynman's musings in 1949?
Message-ID: <stone.725820047@cwis>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:40:47 GMT
Lines: 13


This is a nice bit of work, but don't you think it belongs in
sci.physics rather than HERE?

C'mon now.  The subject-atmosphere (possibility of alien visitations,
UFOs, abductions, etc.) in this group is already getting dangerously
thin---it really doesn't need this sort of stuff to come along and make
it rareified to the point of "unbreathability".  John Winston does
enough of that already....

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13407 alt.alien.visitors:12228 sci.skeptic:36405
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re:Bolivian Encounter Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 10:31:31 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 28

Subject: Bolivia Encounter. Part 2.
  This is a continuation of our last information about a person coming in
contact with some space people.
  " I don't know how long I stood there, unmoving. I only know  something
suddenly touched my arm, and that I then turned, like in a dream, and what I
saw paralyxed me still more, because beside me were standing two men in
diver's suits! I still remember wondering about that, adn sked myself why
these towo would run in the middle of the jungle in diver's dresses. Then I
realized many differtences.  These dresses were very eicently much lighter
in weight than any diver's suits known to me, and the silvery color was not
like nay diver's suits I knew of. The two blonde men wore no helmets or
other environmental headgear, abut had on their suits stranhge looking
instruments of different size and form, still paralyxzed, I could not speak
a word, though the men, who ev idently belonged to the flying sauce, did not
look malicous and even laughed in a friendly way. Then one of them spoke,
but I could not understand a single word.  then the second one fried but to
no better result. I did not understand a word.  their language seemed
totally strange to me, but of a melodic and sympathetic sound athat in any
event calmed me and seemed to loosen my paralysis."
  "Bothe men were about the same sized, the size of myself, about 1.74 meters.
 They took me by the arms and guided me to their spacecraft, which I allowed
without resistance. About 5 meters from the spacecraft they ahd set up some
peculair things, among which were the some strange stolls or chairs, on
which  we sat down.  I still could nto speak.  smiling in a frindly way now,
one of them spoke to me, but aghain I could not understand anything. aHis
speaking had the effect of releasing the aralysis and the stiffness was now
gone. I became very calm, and now suddenly I could speak too. In 'spanish I
inaUIRED IN ASTONISHMENT ABOUT THIS INCOMPREHENSIBLE OCCURRENCE,
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Why I put physics here.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:27:32 GMT
Lines: 30


Let me comment on:
From: [e-mail] (Travis Stone)
Subject: Re: Feynman 44 Is it unitary? Sarfatti predicts new solid state
release
 of vacuum energy based upon Feynman's musings in 1949?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:40:47 GMT
Lines: 13

--MORE--(59%)
This is a nice bit of work, but don't you think it belongs in
sci.physics rather than HERE?

C'mon now.  The subject-atmosphere (possibility of alien visitations,
UFOs, abductions, etc.) in this group is already getting dangerously
thin---it really doesn't need this sort of stuff to come along and make
it rareified to the point of "unbreathability".  John Winston does
enough of that already....

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha

The point is I may be a contactee of alien visitors dating from 1952 -
see the Gladstone Report for details. The physics I am working on may
orginate with "alien visitors" or at any rate explain their
super-technology. Among the visitors I suspect are out time travelling
great great .... grand kids from the future! On the ohter hand I may be
totally wrong - which is the power of real science. EverythingI say is
falsifiable in the sense of Karl Popper's idea.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!goofy!mumbo.apple.com!jimn8.apple.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Jim Nitchals)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rap Music Singing Aliens.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:17:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The News System)
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote in
part:
> These extraterrestrials are called the Greys because of how they look. A
> typical Grey alien is about 3-4 feet tall, has whiteish-grey skin and no
> hair, a large head with small facial features, and large black lidless eyes.

John, could you answer a few questions for me?

#1... How intelligent are these beings?  On an IQ test, for example, would
they
score 100? 200?  Off the scale?

#2... Are they edible?  If one were to capture one of the elusive
creatures,
would one be able to eat the Grey to avoid starvation?

#3... (this goes back to question #2) are they carbon-based lifeforms?  Do
they encode their genetic information in a compatible way?  (DNA/RNA)


Jim Nitchals
-- The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not necessarily reflect
those of my employer.

"If money can't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it!" - Weird Al
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: [e-mail] (JIM GRAHAM)
Subject: Re: ParaNet Press Release
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Indiana University Cyclotron Facility, Bloomington, Indiana
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution:  world
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:58:54 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David R. Stepien) writes...
>
>>The ParaNet UFO CONTINUUM is heard each Sunday evening at 9:00
>>PM Mountain Time, 11:00 PM Eastern, via satellite Galaxy Six,
>>Channel 17, Audio Channel 7.5 MHz.
>
>What kind of equipment is needed to receive this?
>
>David

A home satellite television system, capable of recieving C-band signals is
necessary.  The audio frequency of a given tv "channel" may be adjusted,
hence the ability to receive radio.

Jim Graham

        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
                          Neither do they speak for me.
 ______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: [e-mail]                              |
|           dolmen![e-mail]                        |
| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
|            [phone], 24hrs.                                    |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5552 talk.religion.newage:13410 alt.alien.visitors:12232
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!transfer.stratus.com!jjmhome!bit
From: [e-mail] (Betty Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John_-_Winston TV Star Person
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:43:14 GMT
Organization: none
Lines: 12

Greetings People:  I recently viewed a video of three of Mr. Winstons TV
shows (broadcast weekly on the San Jose cable system), which he was so
kind to send to me.  These were excellent shows.  If you people on the
net could see them, I think you'd be impressed by his sincerity.  When I
get some time I'll write a review of the show where John interviews Kelvin
Rowe, who claims to have known and flown with space aliens.
Happy New Year to All!
Betty Lewis
--
Betty Lewis             INET        [e-mail]
Westboro MA             SMART UUCP  [e-mail]
USA                                 uunet!lectroid!jjmhome!bit
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34824 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2675 alt.alien.visitors:12233 alt.paranormal:6237 sci.skeptic:36408
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!jjs40
From: [e-mail] (John Sullivan)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Sarfatti fans take note.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:08:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 11

You can find a letter to the editor from Jack in today's (12/31) San Francisco
Chronicle.  It contains some mumblings about how the government should be
allowed to pursue secret programs.  Kind of a pro-conspiracy theory stance.

Personally, I find him to be far more entertaining than some of the other
local alt.wackos such as John Winston.  Sarfatti reads like a bad acid-SF
novel, as opposed to Winston who is a lot more like the Weekly World News.

--
John Sullivan, Engineer/Computer Development.      Email: [e-mail]
Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA.                  Phone: [phone]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13411 alt.alien.visitors:12234
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Underground City Near Cadiz.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 14:24:42 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 40

Subject: The Underground City Near Cadiz.
  I have been asked to put down some information about the city that is
underground just outside of Barstow and Needles, Calif.
  Many years ago I communicated by letter to an ex-service man in San Diego,
Calif. by the name of Earl Gambrel. I can speak freely of him because both
he and his wife are now dead. He was in World War II and told me about a
time when he was sleeping in his camper beside the left hand side of the
road about 5 miles outside of Barstow about one half mile over towards the
railroad tracks. While he was in his pickup camper asleep he was transported
by a space craft over 40 miles and put down in an area just 2 miles NW of
Bonanza Springs which is about 13 miles from Cadiz, Calif. This area was
just south of the Clipper Mountains.  His camper was put down in an area
that didn't have any roads going to the spot and he even had to get out and
move large stones so he could get his truck out of the area. He finally made
it back to San Diego but it took him quite a while to recover his health.
  After that time he started to communicate with the people in the UFOs by
ESP. They directed him back out into the area and he walked over in the
Clipper Mountain area to a place where he found a cave or tunnel entrance
into the ground in the side of a hill.  The area is near the same spot where
you can see a needle (an area where the earth makes a sort of a natural
bridge that you can walk through like you see in some other states except
this one is just big enough for a normal person to walk through). There is
also a mountain peak in the area that looks like it has a black stone
railroad car on top of it.  As he walked into this cave he noticed that it
went down at about a 30 degree angle. After quite a while he came into a
city with houses and street. About the only thing of value was that in some
of the houses there were stones of a high grade of crystal nearly as large
and as pretty as diamonds. He felt that these cystals were made in the same
was as the Jewels of the Gods as the American Indians of the area call the
cystals that are found in the ground when a space craft comes over a piece
of land, discharges it's electricity into the ground, heating up the soil
and thus forming a sort of jewel from the heated soil and rock.  The Indians
of the region value them very much.
  After coming out of the area he found out that another person had found the
area and had told the world about it and he was killed. The story then gets
pretty far out by warning about what would happens to people who go into the
area but I didn't put much value in that part of the thing
End Part 1..
End Part 1.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13412 alt.alien.visitors:12235 sci.skeptic:36410 talk.bizarre:87184
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!wheatena.berkeley.edu!kuritzky
From: [e-mail] (Eric Kuritzky)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: No laughing matter.
Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:46:58 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheatena.berkeley.edu
Summary: Yes, it is.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Crunchy Frog) writes:
[I know that it was a while ago, but I've just started reading TB]
|In article <[e-mail]>
|  [e-mail] (Daniel F Boyd) writes:
|>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|>> You think you've got problems. I'm now getting E-mail from Satan.
|>So where is Satan apparently mailing from?
|>I'm surprised I'm the first one to ask this question.
|
[stuff deleted]
|
|2. Have you considered sending mail to his sysadmin?
|
|% mail [e-mail]
[humorous portion of post deleted]

   [e-mail] bounces.  Have you tried [e-mail]?



--


                              [e-mail]
                              Eric Kuritzky
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13413 alt.alien.visitors:12236 sci.skeptic:36415
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: VCR Alert- Watch CNN (was: Psychics Strike Out Again.)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:33:05 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: I was watching TV last night and lo and behold what did
>appear to my unbelieving eyes, was the face of your own Robert
>Sheaffer. Mr. Sheaffer was pointing out the fact that many of the
>tabloid magazine psychic predictions do not come to pass as predicted.
>Well done Robert.

Thank you, John. That was KGO-TV, Channel 7 in San Francisco.

This morning (12-31) I taped a segment for CNN, doing more or less
the same thing. This should be getting aired on CNN, CNN Headline News,
and CNN International, starting this evening Pacific time. It will
probably be broadcast a number of times over the New Year's holiday.

Also, anyone who get the New York Times might look in the paper
for (probably) Friday. They're preparing something on "psychic
predictions."

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36419 sci.physics:34829 alt.alien.visitors:12237 alt.paranormal:6238 alt.conspiracy:21300 alt.usage.english:14830
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.usage.english
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!gtoal
From: [e-mail] (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Sarfatti Forteana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pizzabox.demon.co.uk
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:14:14 GMT
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Francis Fung) writes:
:That's a neat thing you mentioned about the possibility
:of a word being borrowed backwards. I know of no  example
:of such either, but a borrowing from French to Hebrew is
:a more probable place for such a thing to happen
:given the writing directions. Intriguing question.
:Incidentally, do you by any chance know the
:derivation of the word "Yankee"? Just a non
:sequitur. :) Have fun!

One suggestion is from the Dutch 'John Doe' equivalent, Jan Kees.
I dunno.  Sounds dubious to me, but I expect that's the one you're
thinking of.

Followups redirected to alt.usage.english

G

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13414 alt.alien.visitors:12238 sci.skeptic:36421 talk.bizarre:87191
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!wpi.WPI.EDU!satan
From: [e-mail] (Matthew James Meyer)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: No laughing matter.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jan 93 01:22:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 41
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eric Kuritzky) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Crunchy Frog) writes:
>[I know that it was a while ago, but I've just started reading TB]
>|In article <[e-mail]>
>|  [e-mail] (Daniel F Boyd) writes:
>|>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>|>> You think you've got problems. I'm now getting E-mail from Satan.
>|>So where is Satan apparently mailing from?
>|>I'm surprised I'm the first one to ask this question.
>|
>[stuff deleted]
>|
>|2. Have you considered sending mail to his sysadmin?
>|
>|% mail [e-mail]
>[humorous portion of post deleted]
>
>   [e-mail] bounces.  Have you tried [e-mail]?
>
>
>
>--
>
>
>                              [e-mail]
>                              Eric Kuritzky






to think he would do such a thing....



--
*******************************************************************************
* satan@wpi *
*           * my lips may promise, but my heart is a whore - nin
*******************************************************************************
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!news.funet.fi!funic!nntp.hut.fi!vipunen.hut.fi!etalvio
From: [e-mail] (Samuli Talvio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jan 93 01:41:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet pseudouser id)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nicholas P Nelson) writes:
>     Personally, I am not convinced that there are aliens roaming the earth to
>kidnap people from their homes.  I am not even convinced that alien spacecraft
>have visited the earth. I can guarantee that I have an open mind on the
>subject.  I would rather see a serious discussion in alt.alien.visitors than
>the ramblings of JW and the follow ups to his posts.

    I have an open mid on UFO's also. Which means I have no more hard
evidence on UFO's than anyone else does, since I have not seen nor heard them,
but I still believe they can (and do) exist. It is merely probable: there
are a nearly infinite amount of stars with a planet which is suitable for
inhabitation.
    I belive that if (and since) there are aliens "invading" Earth, they
hardly are here to conquer us. What would they gain for taking Tellus
for themselves? Just a mere planet with intelligent beings; no big deal.
    If aliens really are here and most of the people haven't heard of
them, they must have technology so superb compared to us, that they actually
might even make fun of us trying to find out who and from where they were.
With superb technology, they would probably just see what Earth turns out
to be in a couple of millennia, what humans can do to make the World a
civilised member of the Universe. And, if so, we would have nothing to
worry about except to not get over-confident.

Samuli Talvio

UFO's certainly exist, but are we their playground?
Anyways, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13415 alt.alien.visitors:12240
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!01jmbrown
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rap Music Singing Aliens.
Message-ID: <1993Jan1.031601.13357@bsu-ucs>
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:16:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: world
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Subject: The Greys, Friend or Foe?
>    In the past I always thought that the Greys were just a bunch of almond
> eyed, grey colored, little creeps. After reading the following information
> from Kumar and Walter P. I may have to change my mind. So here we go with
> the information; The Greys are here for basically one puroose: To create a
> new race of beings.  Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they
> are a cross between the Greys and Earth humans.  The reason whey these
> Hybrids are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours.
> In order to explain how the hybrids will save us both, and explain the
> rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and their
> features should be made:

^^^^Let me get this straight. There is a Hybrid of the greys and humans and..


> Some might think that the Greys are a reptilian race, but this isn't true.
> Rather they are an insect-like race.  Some say the Greys look a lot like
> giant insects, and I believe that is perhaps part of their history - a
> highly evolved insect race.  This accounts not only for jerky movements, but
> their unemotional and hard working collective mentality.  The contents of my
> earlier posts said they are like humanized robots which are working for a
> few manificent Angelic beings.  These master aliens could in our insect
> analogy play the role of the "gueens". An interesting piece of trivia is
> that, according to one source, the influence of the Greys in our society has
> been expressed through the introduction of Rap music, and although I can't
> verify anything, this music would probably fit them well.
> End Part 1.
> John Winston.

...despite your hypothesis that they are of insect descent, you maintain that
they are similar enough to mate and produce healthy young with humans, despite
the fact that humans have an endoskeleton and don't all insects have
exoskeletons?  considering genetic theory today suggests evolution spreads out
in different branches, like traveling from the trunk of a tree to a leaf on the
end. hopping from branch to branch would be most unprecedented if it could be
proven.

just a thought.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13416 alt.alien.visitors:12241
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Underground City Near Cadiz.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 11:24:28 GMT
Lines: 10

Pretty amazing story John. I really like the stuff you write about people
you have corresponded with and talked to personally. I guess what makes
me believe this story is that so many people around the world are telling
similar tales, and most are not the sort to just make it up and lie
about it. The odds are just astronomical that they are all making it up,
so if even 10% of these stories are true, it means the our planet, our
reality; it's all very different from what they tell you in school...

Jeff-

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13417 alt.alien.visitors:12242 alt.religion.kibology:5553
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 08:41:52 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: It looks like I'm going to have to put another
nickle in the Portal Machine because I'm not getting through.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RE: ENUF IS ENUF. TIME FO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 09:10:06 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Convention of Flamers: It's good to hear you saying what you
believe. Thanks you very much.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Semi-moderated newsgroup idea
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Jan 93 16:49:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Coyt D Watters) writes:
> An idea about the proposal to create a new moderated group to replace AAV.
>
> What could be done is to create a "semi-moderated" newsgroup.  It would work
> like a normal moderated group, but with the following extensions:
>
> The moderator can create a file of "autoapproved" users, whose articles
> will go to the newsgroup w/o further intervention.  This will allow those
> posters articles to speedily enter the discussion.
>
> Likewise, the moderator can create a "dump" file of users whose articles
> will be sent to /dev/null without ever being read.
>
> The software could also be set up to reject postings below a certain threshold
> of size (since so many of the "bad" postings are <10 lines).  These postings
> may/may not trigger the sending of an email explaining the rejection.
>
> The moderator would then have to read all the other posts, and approve/reject
> on a set of criteria.  Once a poster has a certain number of "approved"
> postings, the modeerator should add them to the "autoapproved" process.
> The criteria should be set down by the readership during the RFD stage.


Universal consciousness is obviously working well as I was just about
to post an almost identical message :-)

Possibly a better solution would
be to pass all posts *unless* a contributor has repeatedly transgressed
the groups charter. Obviously the decision as to when this line is
crossed is to some extent subjective but I would suggest it would be
better than what we have now. A ban need not be permanent and the offenders
could be warned in advance that they were stretching the limits.



>
> -Coyt
--
Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]                 Int: [phone]
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!actcnews!sun1x!scottb
From: [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn)
Subject: Re: Moderated Newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 16:56:22 GMT
Lines: 11

Yes, it would be difficult to moderate this group (as pointed out in prev
msg.).  But, for those of us who dont have kill file capabilities, it would
be great.  Unless it is a post that has some kind of merit, dont let it be
posted.  JW is great for posting 3/4 lines posts of pure utter Bullshit.
Stuff like this should not be allowed - and moderating is one way (only?)
way of doing it.
--
Disclaimer:  I didn't do it!  Nobody saw me do it!  You can't prove anything!
             My opinions are my own.   They do not reflect anyone/thing else!
\/       preferred        \/
[e-mail]            |           [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: i have a question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 09:29:24 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References:  <199227.4962.12342@dosgate>
Lines: 15

Dear Question Asker: I believe you will find that Don Showen is the
expert when it comes to the Pleiadian space people who are visiting
our planet. Most of the information about them comes from the work of
a oned man over in Europe who has collected a lot of information
from and about them. They are from the star system called the Pleiades
or Seven Sisters spoken of in Greek Mythology and American Indian
lore. The Cherokee Indian People claim to have come from there. The
Blonds or Nords are blond headed space people who look a lot like us.
Many are from the Pleiades and some are from Venus. They use the word
Nord because they look like Nordic (Swedish) earth people.  EBE stands
for extraterrestrial Biological Entity and it is a name that our
scientist call people from other planets. Most of the time it refers
to space people who we have picked up either alive or dead.
I hope this will be of some help to you.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pest Control. Ever hear of this idiot?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 09:33:33 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear People: I believe you will find that it was not me.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 09:53:26 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: There is no one who can prove the fact that space craft are
visiting us at the present time and in the past except youself. Check
it out for yourself. We have hard evidence of space craft in the
hangers at Groom Lake, Calif. Lazar has attempted to tell the word
about it and they have just about ruined him. Craft have been found
in New Mexico and people are still fighting over that incident. Just
do your own investigating and prove it to yourself.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: January 3, 1993
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 10:02:29 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: You must remember the Astral Train is in for repair till
Jan. 5, 1992. Until that time we cannot help you.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Semi-moderated newsgroup idea
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 10:05:13 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear People: You people are truely amazing.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Sarfatti Papers 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 10:10:00 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear New Person To The Group: After reading you post it is my
opinion that you are a very well read person which probubly drive
a few flamers on this Net crazy. Welcome kind sir.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13418 alt.alien.visitors:12252 sci.skeptic:36428
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 10:47:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the last person who was writing me
was not Satan. Satan has not written me lately. He is from the UK. My last
posting about the Bolivian Encounter sort of cut off towards the end. Sorry
about that. It hard to get good help nowadays.
John Winston. If my flamers would let me I would like to say thanks to Betty
and Robert, but then I had better not say that so I won't.
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34852 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2676 sci.skeptic:36433 alt.paranormal:6240 alt.alien.visitors:12253 alt.conspiracy:21313
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re: Hidden variables in QM (refutation of Budnik etc.)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 19:52:40 GMT
Lines: 146


*Sarfatti comments* on:

From: [e-mail] (Paul Budnik)
Subject: Re: hidden variables
Date: 1 Jan 93 16:08:53 GMT
In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>
> [e-mail] (Bob Koehler) writes:
>
> > Would someone be so kind as to summarize the argument that hidden
variable theories violate causality?
>[...]
> However (and simply ignoring the many person-years of "debate" in
sci.physics on this issue), I would strongly suggest that if you look
carefully at the way it is set up, this very odd QM "spookiness" does _not_
violate causality any more than fully local "hidden variable" theories do.
Causality violation means the abilty to transfer a message upon which some
very real action can be taken.

This is an interesting new definition of causality.

*It is not so much a definition of cauality as it is a good definition of
"strong causality violation". Your idea Paul I would call "weak causality
violation".*

Bell's result implys that either special relativity, quantum mechanics or
causality as defined in classical mechanics is false.

*Agreed*

There is no escaping this except be redefining causality as some physicists
have attempted to do. It is not possible to send a message instantaneously
using this effect.

*It will soon be possible to make machines that will send messages over
both spacelike intervals and from future to present via lightlike and
timelike intervals. These machines require a minimal generalization of
standard quantum mechanics from "strong unitarity" which is a sufficient,
though not necessary, condition for conservation of local probability
current to "minimal nonunitarity" in which local probability current is
still conserved (i.e. norms <i|i> = <i|N*N|i> = 1 are invariant) but
orthogonal states are squashed to parallel states (i.e. <i|j> = 0 ->
<i|N*N|j> = 1, i /=j). This does demand that N be almost an "intelligent
operator" that induces variable phase shifts dependent on the input
superposition. This generalized QM appears mathematically self-consistent
and the issue is whether they exist as natural processes. There is
circumstantial evidence that the answer is affirmative.*

However, the effect does require that information be transferred
instantaneously.  We know something about possible combinations of two
events, polarizer angles and detections, at a distant site that could not
have been transferred in a way that preserves causality consistent with
Lorentz invariance. In some frames of reference the information must be
transferred from A to B and in other frames from B to A.

*You can get away with this for weak causality violation but not for strong
causality violation. In latter case, in some frames for spacelike
communication the cause will be in the future of the effect. But in the
timelike or lightlike "delayed choice" mode the cause will be in the future
of the effect in all Lorentz group frames of reference - for example a
message from the future giving the date of your death - the quantum force
of destiny.*

> The QM version just does not allow that, since no matter how you
> arrange it the "correlations" will be recognizable _only_ after you bring
> records back together from both sites and compare them.  The latter
process of "bringing together" the records enforces a speed-of-light delay
that keeps the universe nicely consistent and prevents any serious (past-
changing) info from being transferred.

*This is only a temporary "unitary barrier" that we will soon smash!  It is
already smashed in precognitive experiences and in the fact that there is a
universe delicately adjusted in its fundamental constants and boundary
conditions that permit life to evolve.*

This is true, but I believe there is a serious problem with the current QM
model

*No Paul, there is no problem. The problem is your way of understanding the
meaning of nonlocality.*

... when you start asking what happens in the time domain in tests of
Bell's inequality. Assume the polarizers are located some distance from the
detectors. Assume there is a steady stream of singlet state particles that
you are detecting. At what time does QM predict that one will see a change
in probability of joint detections as a result of changing the angles
between polarizers? QM does not make a clear prediction about this.

*Wrong Paul. QM is perfectly clear about this as the following spacetime
diagram shows. A pair is emiited from events 1 and 4. The first pair is
detected at events 2 and 3. The second pair is detected at events 5 and 6.
The standard QM formalism (without the minimal extension needed to ger
quantum connection communication) unambiguously predicts that the nonlocal
joint probability to detect both photons in the same local linear
polarization state (i.e., relative to local orientations of polarizers) is
for the first pair (i.e.,ideal conditions of efficiency etc)

p(2+|3+) = {cos[@(2) - @(3)]}^2/2

and for the second pair

p(5+|6+) = {cos[@(5) - @(6)]}^2/2

where @(i) is the actual orientation of the polarizer at the event in which
the photon locally interacts with electrons in the polarizer.  That's it,
period! It can be derived rigorously. You have been wasting years on a non-
problem. Try to be objective, I know its hard to moderate the ego, about
this.*


                            5 \                    / 6
                                \                /
                                  \            /
                                    \        /
                                      \    /
                                        \/
                                         4
                            2 \                    / 3
                                \                /
                                  \            /
                                    \        /
                                      \    /
                                        \/
                                         1


Considering this issue leads directly to a proof that QM is an incomplete
theory.

*False!*

This is an appropriate result since it was this claim by Einstein 60 years
ago that started this debate.

*NO! Einstein showed that QM was incomplete if there was no real action at
a distance. True, at the time he did not believe in real action at a
distance. However, his last research assistant Ernst Straus reported that
at the end of his life Einstein began to doubt his belief that there was no
real action at a distance on the quantum connection. I can find the actual
quote and reference if anyone is interested.*

Paul Budnik  with comments in *..* by Sarfatti


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 23:12:16 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anna Anderson) writes:
>
>alt.alien.visitors is the perfect place for John Winston's tales.
>
>However, I propose that a new group "alt.sightings" be made, and
>that it be moderated by Don Allen.
>--
>Anna
>


Why thank you for those kind words but I have my hands more than full
with the Fido UFO conference at present. I'm sure there's a few good
individuals here that could qualify.

Happy New Year!

Don

--
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
[e-mail] - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13419 alt.alien.visitors:12255 alt.religion.kibology:5558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!boesch
From: [e-mail] (Eric Boesch)
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Hamburger Repair Coordinator for Big Mac #15,343,2342,343
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 02:02:30 GMT
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: It looks like I'm going to have to put another
>nickle in the Portal Machine because I'm not getting through.
>John Winston.

Gosh, those aliens are mean.  Have they been feeding you that
pay-me-or-I'll-make-it-go-away line again?

Let's get it straight, then.  Tesseracts are acts of God.  They don't
care who you give money to.  Except, of course, if you give money to
God.  God likes that; he can't use money, but he likes the idea of
people not having it.  God spends his money on useless junk and makes
sure that he buys things that someone made only for the money,
thinking wrongly that their moments of misery involved in its
production might be worth the cash.  Or maybe God might give the money
to charity, God's charity, the Fund for the Extension of the Lives of
the Miserable and Lifeless.  They please Him, or if not actually
_please_ him, at least relieve some of the pain of God's own eternal
superlife.  (Superlife is like regular life times infinity.)

So if you care to improve your life in the short term at the expense
of life universe-wide, give your money to God, he'll be "pleased" to
reward your selfish support of an evil cause (Him), but don't give it
to the tesseract-sellers or weather-merchants, they can't do shit for
you.  God punishes such foolishness, but then God punishes wisdom too
so it's a difficult call.

The best thing is to give up the trips through to parallel universes
altogether, but of course you won't do that; if you had the will to
avoid such temptation, God wouldn't have bothered letting you see them
at all.  Don't fool yourself that the happy land you visit is one that
you can live in, though, it's just there to remind you of the squalor
of your life.  It's Hell you see, but you're too good to ever get
there.  Temptation is evil but only because you can never have what
you're tempted to take.  Remember that Hell would not exist if it
didn't serve God's purposes.  Hell exists because God became so
furious with Satan that He made a few unappreciative people insanely
happy and put Satan among them in to make Satan more miserable.

I hope that the rest of you enjoyed New Year's as much as I did, but
that you all tried harder.  Me, I'm saving my money so I can give it
to a rich person.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!byron.u.washington.edu!krenner
From: [e-mail] (Randolph Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mass sighting in Mexico?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jan 93 06:04:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 5
NNTP-Posting-Host: byron.u.washington.edu

>  I haven't subscribed to a.a.v in a while, those Zeta Grey and crystal
>freaks really took this place down a couple of notches, but if there's
>any "truth" (heh, I know, a relative term) I'd like to know.

Uh...is that crystal as in new age crankery or crystal as in crank addicts?
Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:21325 sci.skeptic:36447 alt.alien.visitors:12257 alt.paranormal:6242 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2680
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Spear of Destiny? (some very raw data).
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:59:55 GMT
Lines: 36


from thread in WELL (news 1142):
Yes, that's right about the practical joke played on Putzi.
There is an interesting synchronicity here along the lines of Trever
Ravenscroft's The Spear of Destiny - it is multi-leveled.

1. Putzi's Sedgwick's relation to Hitler closely parallels Margherita
Sarfatti's relation to Mussolini. Both Putzi and Margherita worked for US
during WWII.

There is afunny story how the Pentagon was built because of pressure on FDR
about his cousin Putzi by Sam Rayburn.

2. I meet Putzi's grandson at Savoy Tivoli in late 70's he becomes part of
the SAR circle singing us Tyrolean songs in Lederhosen at magic mushroom
parties. I later meet Suky Sedgwick and fall in love with her. Putzi's
grandson returns to Munich with his new bride whose father owns Der Stern.
Prior to meeting Putzi's grandson I wrote Hitler's Last Weapon a parody of
Werner Erhard - played on Pacifica Radio produced by Steven Hill with Eric
Bauersfeld. I play Hitler's Last Weapon for Hand Syberberg at Francis Ford
Coppola's House after screening of Syberberg's Our Hitler which features
Putzi - though I knew nothing of Putzi and would not meet his grandson until
later.

3. My relation to Werner weakly parallels Putzi's to Hitler and Margherita's
to Mussolini - and it parallels Rashi de Troyes (Solomon ha Zarfatt 1040 -
1105) to Godfrey's - the leader of the first Crusade and the inspiration for
the Parsifal legend that Hitler loved so much. Mussolini had the idea that
the future creates the past and precognitive prophecy is reputed to be a
power of Rashi Sarfatti. Suky's granddad Henry Dwight Sedgwick has the idea
that the future creates the past anticipating Fred Hoyle's thery that it
does by 80 years - almost word for word.

All of this is weird Phillip Dick like evidence for the intervention of
H.P. Lovecraft's "the old ones" in opur personal lives and gor VALIS
and what John Lilly calls "cosmic coincidence control"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway
From: [e-mail] (Jim Atwell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Debunkeritis:  A Partial
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:05:00
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 32

In a message to All <26 Dec 92 06:21> Michael Corbin wrote:

 MC> From:
 MC> [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
 MC> Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0
 MC> - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO

 MC> THE VARIETIES OF DEBUNKERITIS:  A PARTIAL LIST

 MC> Compiled by Jerome Clark, December 1992.

 MC> Reprinted with permission on ParaNet Information Services

 MC> DEBUNKERITIS:   The  inability  of

Well done Mike!  I liked it.
Let's see more posts from ParaNet, they might just out-weigh the
copious volumes of Bull_-_Sh*t we have to put up with on a.a.v.

Regards,
          Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
                              |  PO Box 281
          Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
          3:800/851           |  Australia



___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway
From: [e-mail] (Jim Atwell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:07:02
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 18

Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of
up-to-date Australian UFO reports?

If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll
organize some regular postings.

Regards,
          Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
                              |  PO Box 281
          Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
          3:800/851           |  Australia


___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:6243 alt.alien.visitors:12260 sci.skeptic:36449 alt.conspiracy:21329 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2681
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Sarfatti's Dream
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:21:16 GMT
Lines: 28


from WELL science 299 Data-Base for Precognitions - add your own!

#1 I awoke at 6am Jan 1, 1993 from a lucid dream in which I was in "London".
But this was a London of the future. I wandered several neighborhoods.
The dream was marked by extremely vivid archtectural detail in full color.
It was a City of Gods - incredibly beautiful composition of structure and
natural envioronment - crisp fresh air - Fairy Tale Castles harmonious with
modern structures that Frank Lloyd Wright might envy. Such a lucid dream was
no doubt experienced by Samuel Coleridge when he wrote about Kubla Kahn's
Xanadu. I may have tapped into the same dream coming from the future. I
would leave this place and time without hesitation should a Star Ship arrive
and offer me passage.

What is odd about this is that normally I do not remember my dreams and I
am not very sensitive to architecture - but this was so glorious like a
Beethoven symphony in stone, vegetation and unknown artificial materials yet
to be constructed by quantum solid state engineers.

I was not alone but guided by another creature whose form I cannot remember.
We came upon two earthy British women. I began a flirtatious conversation
and woke up.

I normally do not remember my dreams.

If you have interesting dreams of an occult or metaphysical or precognitive
nature - record them here as accurately as you can for later scientific
study.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12261 alt.conspiracy:21330 alt.paranormal:6244
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Sarfatti's Father
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:49:29 GMT
Lines: 120


Will some one kindly re-post this to other relevant conferences dealing with
religion, spirituality etc. Or send me conference names so I can post it.
Thank you.


Hyman Sarfatti
POB 26548
San Francisco, CA 94126

415) 788 4510 (H),[phone] (FAX)



North American rights
) Hyman Sarfatti,1992

Forward by Jack Sarfatti
My father, Hyman Sarfatti, was born in Macedonia in 1914. His father came
from Italian Sephardim said to be descended from the French Merlin Rashi de
Troyes. He spend his infancy in a cave escaping the battles between the
Turks and the Bulgarians not unlike what is happening now in Bosnia.  My
Aunt Esther says that my father as an infant kept asking her in Ladino "Yo
quero agua! Yo quero agua!" Esther repeatedly brought Hyman water from the
well. He spat it out every time and kept asking "Yo quero agua! Yo quero
agua!" My father explains his odd behavior by saying that he is an "old
soul" who was fully conscious at his birth. He was asking for the
enlightenment of the "spiritual waters" not the "material waters".


The Doctrine of the Supremacy of the Soul
by
Hyman Sarfatti

The Saints or Sons of God in all ages incarnate on Earth solely for the
purpose of teaching and guiding human beings to the spiritual path back to
God and His Kingdom, our true and Eternal Home.

The Soul within us is part and parcel of the Lord and of the same essence.
True religion implies the spiritual path which takes us back to God and
becomes One with Him.  The term Yoga means exactly that - Union with God.

Spirituality is the common denominator of all religions.  Over time, more
importance is given to ritual prayers, ceremonies, religious holidays and
dogmas, than to the real teachings of their respective Spiritual Masters.
They all speak in different words essentially the same spiritual truth,
which is the common heritage of all religions.  Unfortunately, the
followers of every religion interpret their respective teachings in their
own way, delete and interpolate them, and build organizations and churches
that emphasize ritual prayers, ceremonies, dogmas and holiday celebrations.
Thus, the followers and their priesthood forget or ignore the real
teachings and disiciplines, becoming grossly materialistic.

God-realization or Self-realization implies the merging of our individual
souls back into God, or becoming One with God, without at the same time
losing our identity as a part of God or a Son of God.  This life in
Eternity (i.e., Eternal Life) knows no death, decay or sorrow.  The life
with God is the ever-lasting and ever-renewing self-affirmation of fully
conscious illimitable divinity.

This is the purpose of the spiritual path; to gain spiritual freedom and
attain Eternal Life, our ultimate destination.  We must yearn to attain
God, the One and only Reality.  Nothing is real but God.

How to become spiritual? - by fasting, prayer and meditation.  Only supreme
faith in God can assure abiding peace.

Our bodies are the Temples of the Living God.  We can only find God or
realize God within our own bodies.  Meditation, fasting and prayer is the
process of involution by which we gain the experiential knowledge of God
and finally merge into Him.  This is the true meaning or definition of
Salvation and Eternal Life in God, or Cosmic Consciousness.  This is the
true inward spiritual journey or spiritual path.  Here is where we find
true peace of mind, satisfaction and happiness.

Our search for these things is generally in worldly achievements and
worldly possessions.  The more we run after these outer things, the more we
generally become frustrated and unhappy.  The worldly materialistic life
degenerates into an endless round of ephemeral pleasures and pain.  The
world is really an illusion.  The only one and true Reality is God and the
life in God, with God and only for the sake of God.  The world and the
worldly life has no intrinsic worth.  It is only a stage or a school in
which we learn - a learning process by which we learn to differentiate
between the unreal and the real.

After many incarnations we finally reach the one in which we start on the
spiritual path.  If we do not attain God in that particular one, then we
come back on Earth and continue from where we left off in the previous
incarnation until we reach the Goal - the highest prophecy stored for us in
the archives of the Almighty.

God is the Goal, and we go from unconcious God to conscious God.  We are
all God - everyone of us - in the process of becoming God1.  This is the
whole reason, the one and only reason for the Creation.  If every soul in
the universe attained God-Consciousness tomorrow morning at 9am, then the
whole universe, known and unknown, would literally disappear at that
moment.  God's purpose would be fulfilled and their would be no reason for
the universe to exist.  God is the beginning and the end of everything.
Nothing exists outside of God - not even a single atom or molecule.

In the beginning only God existed - no universe, nothing.  Then God spoke
the Word AUM, the spiritual sound and the whole universe came into
existence.  As the Bible says "In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God." Scientifically speaking, the Big Bang
theory is absolutely correct.  The universe came into existence at the AUM-
Point - the Word of God.

Buddha's state of Nirvana means release from birth and death or Salvation
or God-Realization through the Eight-fold Path to Perfection.  It is the
same goal of Christ or Krishna or of any other great Saints.  God is the
Goal and the only Reality.  There is only one truth and only one God.  We
must release our soul from the mind-heart and the senses in order for the
soul2 to merge into God.
1 involution
2 to free it from bondage.



****The phone numbers given at beginning are out of date no longer in
service.**** The POB is still good.
Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:21331 sci.skeptic:36450 alt.alien.visitors:12262 alt.paranormal:6245 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2682
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!gtoal
From: [e-mail] (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: The Spear of Destiny? (some very raw data).
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pizzabox.demon.co.uk
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 10:55:02 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
:All of this is weird Phillip Dick like evidence for the intervention of
:H.P. Lovecraft's "the old ones" in opur personal lives and gor VALIS
:and what John Lilly calls "cosmic coincidence control"


I'm surprised you haven't been sued yet by IdEaL OrDeR PsyKicK TV for
stealing their shtick.  It was funny for a day or two, but it's getting
tedious now.

G
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!starlog
From: [e-mail] (anthony star)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 08:22:17 CST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Lines: 26

[e-mail] (Jim Atwell) writes:

> Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of
> up-to-date Australian UFO reports?
>
> If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll
> organize some regular postings.
>
> Regards,
>           Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
>                               |  PO Box 281
>           Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
>           3:800/851           |  Australia
>
>
> ___
>  * CRR QWK 1.40 *
>
>  * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)
>



Interested

                  /s
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2683 alt.paranormal:6246 alt.alien.visitors:12264 sci.skeptic:36452 alt.conspiracy:21341
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Casting pearls before cuddlehogs.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:45:23 GMT
Lines: 30


An articulate pizza-munching hog has snorted:
From: [e-mail] (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: The Spear of Destiny? (some very raw data).
Nntp-Posting-Host: pizzabox.demon.co.uk
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 10:55:02 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
wri

tes:


I'm surprised you haven't been sued yet by IdEaL OrDeR PsyKicK TV for
stealing their shtick.  It was funny for a day or two, but it's getting
tedious now.    "

OK cuddles I apologize for the typos it was late and I was in a hurry - but
perhaps they have some humorous value. However my Hermetic initiatory
information is not meant for cuddlehogs but for beings higher up the scale
of evolution starting with chimpanzees although an occasional genius pig
and even parrot might qualify. But cuddlehogs are known for their stupidity
which comes from a lack of garlic in their pizza which is not made with real
cheese.

My information separates the wheat from the chaff and the latter are invited
to use the automatic kill command so that their limited biocomputer
processors need not be overloaded with meaning from the source.
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2684 alt.paranormal:6247 sci.skeptic:36453 alt.conspiracy:21342 alt.alien.visitors:12265
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re:Query
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:58:01 GMT
Lines: 35


re:
From: [e-mail] (Michael B Garrett -- Chudys)
Subject: Query:
Organization: Chaos is everywhere- also pixies.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:44:57 GMT
Lines: 11

--MORE--(47%)
FTL drives? Time travel? I believe them not impossible. So why not build
the damned things and see if they work?

If it's a question of money, then how much? If an organization HAD the
funds,
who do you hire?

Or am I missing something? (Please don't harp about research costs- I know
all about it- and I still wanna know How Much and Who).
                                                             "

As you note it takes money. The credibility barrier and a depressed economy
inhibit investment although Clinton's R&D investment tax credits if
implemented may change that. The only money in this area is Church's
funding of Puthoff's zero-point energy research at Zeus - which is good.
I need about $1,000,000/year for 10 years to fund a small group of
theorists to keep abreast of the work of Kip Thorne, David Deuthsch, Yakir
Aharonov,Igor Novikov and other visionaries (Roger Penrose) working on
real time-travel physics - as well as to explore my new "minimally non
unitary QM" and Steve Weinberg's new non-unitary QM which does permit
FTL connection communication etc. We would also need a reserve endowment
of $50,000,000 in case experiments were deemed necessary in that period.
We would also develop educational multi-media and VR software teaching
relativity, quantum mechanics etc. to kids who would be the future
star ship cadets to make Star Trek Real and to fullfill our destiny of
Space Migration, Intelligence Increase and Life Extension.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:06:01 GMT
Lines: 8


Yes,

reports of Ausi UFO's would be interesting, and that goes for other
continents as well... Any body in S. America or Africa want to join
in here?

Jeff-
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![[e-mail]]
From: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Subject: i have a question
Message-ID: <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate>
Reply-To: "roman andruszko" <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 2 Jan 93 15:42:54 EST
Lines: 32

TO: [e-mail]

J->Dear Question Asker: I believe you will find that Don Showen is the
J->expert when it comes to the Pleiadian space people who are visiting
J->our planet. Most of the information about them comes from the work of
J->a oned man over in Europe who has collected a lot of information
J->from and about them. They are from the star system called the Pleiades
J->or Seven Sisters spoken of in Greek Mythology and American Indian
J->lore. The Cherokee Indian People claim to have come from there. The
J->Blonds or Nords are blond headed space people who look a lot like us.
J->Many are from the Pleiades and some are from Venus. They use the word

I was under the impression that the atmosphere on Venus is extremely
hot to support life.

J->Nord because they look like Nordic (Swedish) earth people.  EBE stands
J->for extraterrestrial Biological Entity and it is a name that our
J->scientist call people from other planets. Most of the time it refers
J->to space people who we have picked up either alive or dead.
J->I hope this will be of some help to you.

Thanks for the information.
[e-mail]

                         �����������������������������������������������
                         ��Ķ Roman Andruszko �����۲�������������������
                         �����������������������������������������������
---
 � DeLuxe� 1.26b #7079 � CAUSION: Off medication and concidered dangerous.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!artist1
From: [e-mail] (Artist # 1)
Subject: "WAX" in San Francisco (Help!) + other playdates
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: rdrc.rpi.edu
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:47:52 GMT
Lines: 209

Not what you ordinarily read on alt.alien.visitors...
but remember that EBE's are also bees (re: Majestic).

The post:

A request for HELP here,

as well as the bi-monthly posting of where my film is playing, in
case you want to catch it.

===========================================================
"WAX or the discovery of television among the bees" (85:00)
===========================================================

WAX opened on Friday (Jan. 1st) at the Roxie Theatre in San
Francisco. Due to a negative synergy apparently common the last
several months between the papers and the houses that show
independent films, there were NO REVIEWS for the opening, as far
as I know. So if you live in San Francisco, and have any
familiarity with the film, could you please mention it to people
you know. As luck would have it, there was at least a really good
writeup by Richard Kadrey in the winter Whole Earth Review (RK
also wrote a review in Mondo back in August)... but it is really
word of mouth which will save this run.

The number at the Roxie is : [phone]

The film moves over to the UC in Berkeley on Friday, Jan. 8, for
2 days, (9 shows). There is are some new chances for press
there, but I am afraid that the same situation may hold true...
so, hello Berkeley... are you out there? If you know about WAX,
please tell someone else about it.

If you don't know anything about the film, you can write me, and
I will send you a text file (about 70k now) with newspaper
reviews, and a variety of descriptions; included are some net
reviews I either found, or was lucky enough to have forwarded on
to me. The film has already made 2 "10 best" lists here in New
York (NY Press and another).


You can write me at:

[e-mail]        (my name is David Blair)


Obviously, I am self-distributing, in case you wonder why I have
taken the taking the liberty of posting.


-------------
Following are some quotes, to warm you up, then the listing of
playdates up until spring:


William Gibson (author, Neuromancer, Count Zero, etc.) on WAX:

"Authentically peculiar. Like something from the network vaults
of an alternate universe."

William T. Vollman (author, "You Bright and Risen Angels", "The
Iceshirt", "The Rainbow Stories", all Penguin/Viking Press)

"I admire your dark and paranoid visions in all of their
intergalactic complexity."

Larry McCaffery (editor, "Storming the Reality Studio: A Casebook
on Cyberpunk and Postmodern Fiction", Duke University Press):

"WAX strikes me as a truly major accomplishment, intellectually
rich, verbally inventive, visually stunning, and -- perhaps most
remarkable of all -- as emotionally resonant as any film I've
come across in recent years."

Brooks Landon (author, "Aesthetics of Ambivalence: Rethinking SF
Film in the Age of Electronic (Re)Production", Greenwood Press)

"WAX is like no movie you have ever seen. Call it postmodern,
postcyberpunk... or post cinema, the point is this 85 minute
celebration of the possibilities of "electronic cinema" may well
indicate the future direction of SF film, if not "film" itself.

Timothy Leary

"WAX is a treat for the eyeballs, a delight for the receptor
sites, a brilliant illumination for our left brains and our right
brains!"




Here are the screenings:

Jan. 1-7
Roxie, San Francisco
Sat, Sun: 2,4,6,8,10 / Mon-Thur 6,8,10 (except no show Wed. at 8)
(on film)

Jan. 8.9
UC, Berkeley
Friday: 5,7,9,11 / Sat: 1,3,5,7,9

Jan. 14, Jan. 21
Wexner Center, Columbus, Ohio
time ?
(video projection... one of the best in the country)

Jan. 15
Media Lab, MIT
closed screening (but not sure)
(video projection; maker present)

Jan. 21
Knitting Factory, New York
7:30 pm (Knot Room)
(video; maker present)

Jan. 27, 28
Watershed Cinema, Bristol, UK
(film)

Feb. 6th
Cornell Cinema, on campus of Cornell University
part of the VR-film weekend
(film)

Feb. 11, 12
Cornerhouse, Manchester, UK
(film)

week of Feb. 16th
Filmhouse, Edinburgh, UK
sometime that week
(film)

Feb. 24-28th
Brown University, Providence, RI
as part of Vanguard Festival, mainly experimental, cyberpunk, and
hypertext writers, with some visual artists.  Attendees include
Kathy Acker, Mark Leyner, Larry McCaffery, and about 30 others.
Sponsored by the English Department (Robert Coover). If you're in
Providence, check it out!
(film; maker present)

March 4-7
Hillus Intermediale Projektforschung, Vienna, Austria
as part of an Austrian symposium called "On-Line"; no more info
available at this moment
(video; maker present)

March 26th
Saratoga Springs Public Library
evening
(video; maker present)

Proposed for this period are a number of dates- not firmly fixed
yet. These are:

early March
STUC, Leuven, Belgium
(film; maker present)

mid-March
Upstate Cinema, Rhinebeck, NY
(film; maker present)

late-March
The Movies, Portland, Maine
(film)

April (?)
UNM, Albuquerque
(film)

May (?)
Clinton St. Theatre, Portland, Oregon
(film)

Film openings in Boston, Chicago, Washington are also possible
(in case you're curious why you're not listed).

A Japanese-language film version will open in Tokyo in the early
summer.


Thanks for your attention. If you think of a good venue, let me
know!


If you are curious about cassettes, I am selling a limited
edition of 500, signed and numbered, to help pay off the post
production and distribution expenses. They are $36 postpaid. My
address is

David Blair
P.O. Box 174,
Cooper Station
New York, NY 10276


in the UK, PAL versions, within this numbered sequence,  are
available for 22 pounds (postpaid) from:

NSFA
c/o Chris Reed
BBR
PO Box 625
Sheffield S13GY, UK

Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2685 alt.conspiracy:21347 alt.alien.visitors:12269 sci.skeptic:36457 alt.paranormal:6249
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!ivem.ucsd.edu!spl
From: [e-mail] (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: The Pagels Phenomenon? Part 1
Date: 2 Jan 1993 21:52:45 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
> ... | discord | nroff -ms

     Lines Xref network.  Dominic to  I  can  say  that  you
Goofy  take some valium!  Telephone call with a wooden cross
post it was what it.  Space ship.   Blood  drippin  down  my
shoes.

     Written for the term used and don't throw stones For  I
got quantum action at a distance from the blood drippin down
now Here Goofy take some valium!  Money!  Nine is  the  hell
here  we can all pitch in the alleged AI intelligence from a
free ticket to moderate themselves.   Difference  between  a
serious physicist.

     Post it was in Bosnia run by the lips of  the  one  who
told  me  on  a  direct descendent of these people refuse to
help them you're a.  Valium!

Bomp-ba-dump-dump.

                            spl
--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- [phone] -- [e-mail]
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Living alone is living in perpetual irony and thinking, more and more
frequently, Why not."   - Joyce Carol Oates, "The Boyfriend"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman
From: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TEST MESSAGE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Jan 93 16:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Lines: 7

this message wont work

----
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm
From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Yankee (previously Sarfatti Forteana)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:19:17 GMT
Lines: 31

Eric Partridge, in his hefty and classic
"Dictionary of Slang", dates the first usage
of Yankee to around 1780. There are, he says
many theories about the origin of the word.
He thinks the two most credible are an
American Indian mispronunciation of the
word "English", and the Dutch name "Janke"
(lit.: "little John"), which was used as
derogatory term at that time, a bit like
"pommie" is in Australia of English migrants
(from "pomegranate", well documented in the
Australian press and literature of the turn of
the century).

This said, a bit of alien visitors to justify
this posting.

Having looked closely at the photographs of
the Face on Mars in the last issue of Fortean Times,
I am not so much impressed by the Face as by
the two regular pentagonal mountains not far
from it. What sort of geological phenomena
yields regular pentagons? If I were Charles
Fort, I'd like to hypothesize that they are
... wait for it... fossils of *gigantic*
sand dollars. Why, with gravity one third of
the earth, and seas covering the area, you'd
expect sea urchins to be able to grow pretty
big, wouldn't you? What was that Jack Sarfatti
said about the Pentagon on this Earth having
been built in the shape of a Martian sand dollar?
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2687 alt.conspiracy:21358 alt.alien.visitors:12272 sci.skeptic:36462 alt.paranormal:6251
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.uta.edu!utarlg.uta.edu!b645zaw
From: [e-mail] (General Decree)
Subject: Re: The Pagels Phenomenon? Part 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Speaking in Tongues
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Keywords: Oye
Sender: [e-mail] (Stephen Tice)
Nntp-Posting-Host: utarlg.uta.edu
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 01:25:00 GMT
Lines: 43

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Lamont) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
>> ... | discord | nroff -ms

>Bomp-ba-dump-dump.

Tuli Kupferberg, "Who Put the Vey (In the Oy Oy Vey Oy Vey) (c) '71...
(tune: Who Put The Bomp (In The Bomp Ba Bomp Ba Bomp))

    I'd like to get the guy who wrote the song
    That made my baby fall in hate with me

    Who put the vey in the oy oy vey oy vey
    Who put the sham in the sham a lam a ding dong?
    Who put the cop in the cop sh cop sh cop
    Who put the shit in the shit shit shit shit da?
    Who was that man?
    I'd like to break his hand
    He made my baby fall in hate with me.

    When my baby heard
    Vey oy vey vey vey, vey oy vey vey vey
    Every word went right into her heart
    And when she heard them singing
    Sham a lam a sham a lam ding dong
    She said we'd surely have to part

    Who put the vey in the oy oy vey oy vey
    Who put the sham in the sham a lam a ding dong?
    Who put the cop in the cop sh cop sh cop
    Who put the shit in the shit shit shit shit da?
    Who was that man?
    I'd like to break his hand
    He made my baby fall in hate with me.

    Time that we're alone
    Vey oy vey vey vey, vey oy vey vey vey
    Sets my babys gall a-glow
    And everytime we dance to
    Sham a lam a sham a lam ding dong
    She always says sh hates me so.


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!easix!tron.gun.de!locatech
From: [e-mail] (Joerg Loehn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rap Music Singing Aliens.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neuss, Germany
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:16:00 +0100
Lines: 41

To: [e-mail]

\JOHN_-_\WINSTON%CUP.PORTAL.COM@USENET schrieb am 30.12.92 um 21:58:

\P> From: [e-mail]
\P> Subject: Rap Music Singing Aliens.
\P> References:  <[e-mail]>
\P> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
\P> Organization: The Portal System (TM)
\P>
\P> Subject: The Greys, Friend or Foe?
\P> rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and their
\P> features should be made:
\P> These extraterrestrials are called the Greys because of how they look. A
\P> typical Grey alien is about 3-4 feet tall, has whiteish-grey skin and no
\P> hair, a large head with small facial features, and large black lidless eyes.
\P>  They come from a place fnown as Zeta Reticulum, and are part of a larger
\P> Confederation of Planets known as the "Network".  They are actually quite
\P> small and frail, although can move swiftly, in motions that would appear to
\P> us jerky.  Just as there are different races of humans on Earth, so are
\P> there a few different types of Greys: For instance some have more brownish
\P> skin or other varying features, and not all reside in that particular solar
\P> system. Although the Greys have only been actively doing abductions and
\P> other work for the past few decades (similar to the over 100 races that have
\P> taken up observation since 1945) they have actually been  in contact with
\P> Earth for the last several centuries, their influence going back almost as
\P> long as that of the Pleiadians.

Here in Germany there was a movie called 'Intruders' (Science Fiction). In
this movie they showed creatures that looked exactly like them which you
described. Those aliens in the movie crossed aliens with humans.
Could that have something to do with 'operation awareness'? (You reported on)


All the best...
                   Joerg

--
* Origin : PGP 2.0 public key available upon request.

// THE_DOT V2.05b DEMO //
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5563 alt.alien.visitors:12274
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!enterpoop.mit.edu!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Kibof
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:03:56 GMT
Lines: 2

By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
James_-_Kibo_-_Parry
Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2689 alt.paranormal:6252 sci.skeptic:36476 alt.conspiracy:21363 alt.alien.visitors:12275
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!concert!rock!darkshot
From: [e-mail] (Michael B Garrett -- Chudys)
Subject: Re: Query
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:41:36 GMT
Lines: 14

Sarfatti- I agree with you about our destiny, as noted in the last paragraph
of your post. Strongly.

A million bucks a year, huh? It's not impossible. I'm working (slowly) on
setting up a foundation to support exactly this type of research, among
other things. I know a way to fund it, as well. Stay in touch.

And before anyone tells me that this kinda research is wacky, I will state
that even if it is, the serendipitous payoff should STILL be more than worth
the money and time.

'Shot


Xref: icaen alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2690 alt.paranormal:6253 alt.alien.visitors:12276 sci.skeptic:36477 alt.conspiracy:21364
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip
From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Casting pearls before cuddlehogs.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 05:20:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Lines: 9

According to [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti):
>My information separates the wheat from the chaff ...

Check.  And you _are_ chafing.  Ciao.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!sbooth
From: [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 10:48:04 GMT
Lines: 8


I'm American, so don't flame if I'm mistaken, but shouldn't that be
'Aussie' (for Austrailian) rather than 'Ozzie'?

:-)

simon

Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12278 alt.conspiracy:21369 sci.skeptic:36485
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cts.eiu.edu!csbdb
From: [e-mail] (Brett D. Bensley)
Subject: Re: FILE: HUFON report on Underground Base in Calif
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: Brett Bensley
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:01:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Eastern Illinois University
Keywords: Crop Circles
Followup-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 7

I am interested in digized photos or sources or photos of the Crop
Circles.  I am not interested in those proved to be hoaxes!  If you could
contact me directly or send any photos, it would be appreciated!

Brett Bensley, [e-mail]


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!pacbell.com!network.ucsd.edu!pitstop.ucsd.edu!spl
From: [e-mail] (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:55:59 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pitstop.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear People: I'm not an alien. I was born in Texas.

That's alien enough for me.

Beam him up, Scotty.

                            spl



--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- [phone] -- [e-mail]
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Living alone is living in perpetual irony and thinking, more and more
frequently, Why not."   - Joyce Carol Oates, "The Boyfriend"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman
From: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: KIBOF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jan 93 09:34:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Lines: 10

-> By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
-> James_-_Kibo_-_Parry

So who cares?

----
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!network.ucsd.edu!pitstop.ucsd.edu!spl
From: [e-mail] (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Date: 3 Jan 1993 22:04:13 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pitstop.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Harrington) writes:
>Absolutely!  Moderation is the answer!

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.  Moderation in the
pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Oh... sorry... I just dropped in a time warp from the 1964 Republican
National Convention... I thought you were Barry Goldwater for a
moment.

Zzzzzzzzziiiiiiipppppp.  Beep.

                            spl
--
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- [phone] -- [e-mail]
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Living alone is living in perpetual irony and thinking, more and more
frequently, Why not."   - Joyce Carol Oates, "The Boyfriend"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!almac!andy.liddiard
From: [e-mail] (Andy Liddiard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:Bolivian Encounter Par
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jan 93 15:16:00 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Andy Liddiard)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. [phone]
Lines: 15


Dear John_Winston,

JO/*instruments of different size and form, still paralyxzed, I could not speak
JO/*a word, though the men, who ev idently belonged to the flying sauce, did not
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is typo of the month - I laughed so hard, I farted. Keep those
posts coming and never mind the flames; if folk don't want to read
'em, it ain't compulsory.

 Andy ~ london ~ uk                        [e-mail]
                                           [e-mail]
---
 . SLMR 2.1a #112 . You say tomato, but we say tomato.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!lobster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NASA antigravity patent
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:38:53 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 8
NNTP-Posting-Host: lobster.cps.msu.edu



Can someone please send me the original(and subsequent) posts on Nasa's
anti-gravity machine patent.

Thanks,

Brick
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12284 alt.religion.kibology:5566
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: KIBOF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:51:17 GMT
Lines: 1005

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)  writes:
>-> By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
>-> James_-_Kibo_-_Parry
>
>So who cares?
>
>----
>+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
>| HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
>| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
>+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+

By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't explain the jokes
to the humor-impaired.
James_-_Kibo_-_Parry


A REALLY NEAT .SIGNATURE FOLLOWS, PRESS "NO" IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE IT !!!111

^ L


 .SIGNATURE UNDER CONSTRUCTION....... LAST REVISED 5/12/1990 11:02:32 PM
                                      AND ALSO LAST REVISED 5/22/90 11:27:59 PM
                                      AND 8/22/1990 10:03:16 PM TOO
                                      AND 8/25/90 01:57:08 PM
                                      AND 11/11/90 12:35:53 AM <-- LAST TIME!!
                                      (WOW, FOUR 1'S IN A ROW!!!!)
                                      AND 7/8/91 2:06:03 AM <-- LATE NIGHT!!
                                     AND 9/6/91 2:51:26AM <--- LATER!!!
                                      AND 2/9/91^H^H92 4:25:43AM <--- WOW!!!!
                                      AND 7/8/92 1:58:59AM <-- CALL IT 2!!!
                           AND 7/31/92 1:27:49AM <-- JUST FOR ONE NEW LINE!!!!
                           NOT COUNTING THE ABOVE ONE OF COURSE!!!!!!!!
                           AND 12:58:53 9/11/92 FOR ONE MORE!!! NOW IT'S DONE!!!!
                                      AND 9/25/92 1:24:33AM <-- AGAIN!!!
                                      AND 9.29.92 2L37L48AM
                                      AND 10/6/92 3:18:31AM <-- LATE BEDTIME HUH !!!!
                                      COPYRIGHT (C) COPYR.1988,1990,1989,1992
                                      ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
                                      TODOS LOS DERECHOS RESERVADOS!!!
                                      THIS POSTING MAY NOT BE REPORDUCED IN ANY
                                      FORM WITHOUT MY WRITTEN PERMISSION
                                      OR SOLD FOR MONETARY FINANCIAL PROFIT.
                                      AND 6/13/92 3:45:26PM <-- FRI THE 13TH !!!


I WROTE IT ALL BY MYSELF BUT THANKS TO MARK AND JASON DOMINUS, AND TO MATHEW
WHOSE LAST NAME I FORGOT!!!  AND ALL THOSE AUSSIES NAMED "IAIN"!!!

I DIDN'T MAKE ANY SPELLING ERRERS SO
  YOU CAN'T POST THIS SIGNATURE TO
        ALT.FAN.WARLORD!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
^L
                      THIS IS YOUR BRAIN.
                             ___
                            /(()\
                            \__\|


                  THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON THE INTERNET.
                             ___    +-----+
                            /(()\   | VAX |
                            \__\|===+_____+
^L

               ____
              /    \__
  |\         /    @   \
  \ \_______|    \  .:|>     "Dogs aren't ALLOWED?   WAAAAAAH!"
   \      ##|    | \__/
    |    ####\__/   \                         -- Spot
    /  /  ##       \|
   /  /__________\  \
   L_JJ           \__JJ


     S   C   R   A   T   C   H        A   N   D       S   N   I   F   F

     to enjoy the aromatic aroma of beautiful downtown schenectady !!!!
_____________________________________________________________________________
james "kibo" parry, 151 tremont st #8u, boston ma 02111 <- not schenectady.
[e-mail]           _________________________________________________
[e-mail]@uunet.COM    / Kibology    /  Anything I say is my opinion,
[e-mail]@bitnet.COM  is better! /   and is the opposite of Xibo's.
__________________________/_____________/_____________________________________
"All colors are arbitrary." --Carl Sagan   /   Bozos use anything but emacs!
__________________________________________/___________________________________
Wacky, wild, Kibo style! / You're allowed.  (Unless you don't want to be...
________________________/_ you are also allowed to not be allowed.) _________
I never said I wasn't a bozo. /____________________________________/_Hi mom!_
_____________________________/  Life is silly but should be taken seriously.
Some days you    / Klods * /    TV is evil and should be destroyed.  Really.
just can't get  /   for   /__________________________________________________
rid of a bomb. /   klods /  Moisten needle before inserting Taiwan. /  298R
______________/_________/__________________________________________/_________
* Note: "Klods for Klods" is the motto of Lego(tm) blocks in Lego's native
Denmark, where they speak Danish.  It means "Block by block".  Neat, huh????
_____________________________________________________________________________
You're reading my .signature file.  /  COMMODORE 64S RULE THE WORLD !!!!!!!!!
___________________________________/_________________________________________
"I'm Bozo, the world's most famous clown!" -- the world's most famous clown
_____________________________________________________________________________
I've read all of Kurt Vonnegut Junior's books and my favorite is "Breakfast
Of Champions", my second favorite is "Chariots Of The Gods". I love them all.
My other favorite author is Philip K. Dick who wrote "Do Androids Dream Of
Sheep?", "Clams Of The Alphane Moon", "OBIK", "Man In The Castle", and "Total
Recall"!  Oh, and Stephen King is absolutely the best too!  And Derrida!
_____________________________________________________________________________
If it doesn't say PURINA, /                     /  Bart Simpson and Charlie
bury it in the yard!     /      BYTE ME!       /   Brown are both GIRLS!
________________________/_____________________/______________________________
THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE IS COPYRIGHTED (C)1989/90 MCMLXXXIX/MCMLXL BY JAMES "KIBO"
PARRY AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED, SOLD, READ, PRINTED, OR REPLIED TO WITHOUT
MY EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION.  HE IS SERIOUS AND WILL SUE YOUR PANTS OFF.
_____________________________________________________________________________D
|| _______________________________________________________________________ ||I
|| ||                                                                   || ||S
|| ||------>        I'M NOT BIFF !!!!!! HE'S NOT ME !!!!!!!      <------|| ||C
++-++-------------------------------------------------------------------++-+|L
|| ||------>        BIFF IS TOO OBNOXIOUS TO BE ME !!!!!!!!      <------|| ||A
|| ||------>        ALSO HIS .SIGNATURE IS LONGER !!!!!!!!!      <------|| ||I
|| ||___________________________________________________________________|| ||M
||_________________________________________________________________________||E
_____________________________________________________________________________R
"BOZE NOSE BOOKS!" -- Bozo, The World's Most Famous Clown  /    QUAIL SUCKS
__________________________________________________________/__________________
                          /
Orwell was an optimist.  /  "There is infinite hope, but not for us." - Kafka
________________________/____________________________________________________
Join the Kibo Fan Club!  Send lots of money to the address above, RIGHT NOW!
_____________________________________________________________________________
All generalizations stink.  /  Kibology is *NOT* Satanism!  /  Ollie for prez
___________________________/_______________________________/_________________
DON'T WORRY, BE HAPPY!  /   What's fahefergnugen?  /   QUAIL STILL SUCKS! ! !
_______________________/__________________________/__________________________
"The secret word is... SIL!  Now you all know what to do whenever anybody
 says the secret word, right?  SCREAM REAL LOUD!"  -- Pee Wee Herman
_____________________________________________________________________________
If I said anything to offend anyone in this message, I'm sorry and didn't
mean to hurt your feelings.  ________________________________________________
____________________________/  "Losing our marbles for the last 23 years"
I hope you're enjoying     /   I'm gonna be 24 soon!  My birthday is July 13,
reading this posting...   /    send presents!  The day before Bastille Day!
_________________________/___________________________________________________
If Lambada is the forbidden dance, why did they make a movie about it?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Hi [e-mail]!  /  You are here  X  /  What's Peewee Herman's favorite
_________________/___________________/   baseball team?  THE EXPOS!
Garrison Keillor is my hero         /                       (rec.humor.funny)
___________________________________/_________________________________________
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here!"  -- STAR TREK
_____________________________________________________________________________
"SIL!"  "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
_____________________________________________________________________________
There's a mouse in my apartment right now while I'm typing this.  Isn't
that an incredible coincidence!  Have you ever been using this bboard while
a mouse was in your room.  Now I have.........?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Anyone who thinks anyone else should be shot should be shot; the NRA is a
bunch of bozos just like the Democrats AND Republicans AND Williard Scott.
Kill the Fascists and Communists and all the other nuts too.  Kill 'em all!
_____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm Batman!" -- BATMAN THE MOVIE   /  This space intentionally left blank.
(THE BEST MOVIE IN THE WORLD!!!!)  /
__________________________________/__________________________________________
Elvis lives.  /  "I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..." --MONTY PYTHON  /  Hug me
_____________/_____________________________________________________/_________
Did I spell anything wrong? If so, please tell me so I can post a correction.
_____________________________________________________________________________
  |\     My favorite PostScript font is Chicago!  Times Roman is just a cheap
--- \  ripoff of the real New York.  And you don't even have to be in Chicago
___ /  to use Chicago!  I printed my whole resume in 36pt Chicago Bold Shadow!
__|/_________________________________________________________________________
|  "Beauty and the Beast" may be cancelled, but it lives on forever in our  |
|  hearts and minds and hearts!  It will live forever even though it's dead!|
|___________________________________________________________________________|
Can I have a cookie?  / The Kibology Center is a non-non-profit arm of the
_____________________/  National Association for Kibological Awareness(NAKA).
I'M 100% FLAMEPROOF /________________________________________________________
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Harry Graber, age 11, is dying of a fatal disease which will eventually kill
him.  Before he dies, he would like to be in the "Guinness" Book of "Records"
for receiving the most postcards in the mail.  Please send him lots of
postcards at the below address:

              Kibo, PO Box 722, Boston MA 02116-0722 (USA)

Although he is very ill and only barely clinging to life, he gets thousands
of postcards a day from people like you.  He writes back, personally, to
each and every single one.  Amazingly, everyone who writes to Harry recieves
a year of good luck afterwards!  Mrs. Bertha Briggs of Poughkeepsie, NY
recently wrote to Harry and then won the lottery the very next day--AND her
dog was cured of cancer!  Plus, if you write now, Harry will send you
his miracle POSTCARD DIET which will allow you to lose 100 pounds a week!

                            THIS IS NOT A SCAM!
                           This service is FREE!
               Please enclose $14.95 for postage and handling.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

HANDY "TWIN PEEKS" CHART          [murder]<-->[LAURA]<--/-->[Bob]<--["Bob"]
                                              |     ^         |        ^
This is fun to read even if you haven't       v     v         v        |
seen the series.  I like my chart, and    [David   [That FBI guy]   ["J.R."]
I've never seen the show!                 Lynch]         ^             ^
                                         /               |             |
                                        v             [donuts]    [Bobby in
[the log lady]<->[flouridation]-->["Eraserheads"]        =       the shower]
 ^         ^                                           [sex]          |
 |         |     /->[Monty Python's Flying Circles]                   v
[bag     [lumber-                                             /->[Ted Bundy]
ladies]   jacks]<--["RoboJox"]<->[VW]<->[FOX]-->[Al&Peg Bundy]
  ^         |                             ^                   \->[Children]
  |         v                             |
[the dog-faced boy]-->[Laura's<-/->[the Simpsons]<--[Life in Hell]<--[UseNet]
                     evil twin]                                         |
                                                                        v
And remember, the name of the show is a breast metaphor.   [alt.tv.twin.peeks]
                                        ^    ^                |          ^
                                       /     |                v          |
[Mike Douglas]=[Douglas firs]-->[breasts]   [drumsticks]  [rmgroups] /->[logs]
      |                      \______________________________________/    ^
      v                                                                  |
  [Albert]<--/-->[furry white rats]-->[green rats]-->[traffic   [the log lady]
     ^                                                lights]     (here too!)
     |                         [walk with fire me]--->  ^             ^
 [Layland]<-->[Pinky Lee]                               |             |
                               [Herve Villachaise]<--[tattoos]     ["Bob"]

_____________________________________________________________________________
My favroite sci-fi/fantasy short story is  /  VOTE NIXON  / The SubGenius
"The Eye of Argon" by L. Ron Hubbard!     /     IN 1992  /  must wear slacks!
_________________________________________/______________/____________________
Best Skeleton Joke Ever:   "What do you call fish bones?"  "Skele-tuna!" :-)
_____________________________________________________________________________
I spell things the way I want, since William Safire is too wimpy to stop me!
_____________________________________________________________________________
"The medium is the message!"  -- Marshall Mike Luhan  /  I'm a lumberjack...
_____________________________________________________/_______________________
I know the Green Golfball Joke!  I'd post it here but BitNet doesn't allow
R-rated jokes to be posted here so I won't post it!  That's a violation of
your unconstitutional rights and you should complain to your sysop!
_____________________________________________________________________________
MY TETRIS HIGH SCORE ON MY NINTENDO IS 999,990 -- THAT'S A WORLD RECORD!
I HAVE PHOTOS OF THE TV SCREEN TO PROVE IT!  THEY DIDN'T COME OUT THOUGH.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\\\\\\\\
 \\\\\\\\\\                                   \\    \\    \\   \\    \\
  \\\\\\\\\\                                   \\/   \\/   \\/  \\/   \\/
   \\\\\\\\\\
    \\\\\\\\\\                  AMIGA ONLY! \\    \\    \\    \\    \\   \\
     \\\\\\\\\\                              \\/   \\/   \\/   \\/   \\/  \\/
      \\\\\\\\\\                                        ___
       \\\\\\\\\\                                      /. .\
        \\\\\\\\\\                                     |\_/|
         \\\\\\\\\\                                    \___/
          \\\\\\\\\\                  /####\  /######\  ### /#####  /######\
           \\\\\\\\\\                 ##  ##  ## ## ##  ### ##      ##    ##
            \\\\\\\\\\                ##  ##  ## ## ##  ### ## ###  ##    ##
             \\\\\\\\\\       ////////######  ## ## ##  ### ## ###  ########
              \\\\\\\\\\     //////// ##  ##  ## ## ##  ### \#####  ##    ##
               \\\\\\\\\\   ////////
                \\\\\\\\\\ ////////   /#####  ###   ### #####\  ### ###
                 \\\\\\\\\////////    ##      ##     ## ##  ##  ##   ## GRAFIX
                  \\\\\\\////////     ## ###  ##     ## ######\ ##   ##
                   \\\\\////////      ##  ##  ##     ## ##   ## ##   ## WIZARD
                    \\\////////       \#####  \#######/ ##   ## \#####/
_____________________________________________________________________________
 _______________                     |  __        _    ____
/               \   |\/\/\/|  r      |  |\\    | | \  / ,__\       AIR SUPPLY
|  "Have a cow, |__ | @  @ |  a      |  ||\\   | |_/  \ |       _  _  |
|      man!"     /  |   '  |  d      |  || \\  | | \   \\   | | |\ |\ |  \ /
\_______________/   | \___/   i      |  ||__\\      \   \\  | | |/ |/ |   |
                    |  |      c  d   |  ||___\\      \   \\ \_/ |  |  |__ |
                              a  u   |  ||    \\     \\__//     |  |      |
as seen on           BART     l  d   |                \__/
   FOX!            SIMPSON       e   |  THE MOST AWESOME HEAVY METAL BAND !!!
_____________________________________|_______________________________________
^L
^L

                 #     #  ####   #    #   #  #####   ######
                  #   #  # ,, #  #    #   #  #    #  #
                   # #   #    #  #    #  #   #    #  #####
                    #    #\__/#  #    #      #####   #
                    #    #    #  #    #      #   #   #
                    #     ####    ####       #    #  ######

           ##    #       #        ####   #    #  ######  ####    ##
          #  #   #       #       # oo #  #    #  #       #   #   ##
         #    #  #       #       #    #  #    #  #####   #    #  ##
         ######  #       #       #\__/#  # ## #  #       #    #  ##
         #    #  #       #       #    #  ##  ##  #       #   #
         #    #  ######  ######   ####   #    #  ######  ####    ##

                        HAVE A NICE DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PLEASE POST YOUR REPLIES TO THIS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY NET ADDRESS IS!
ALSO PLEASE CROSS-POST TO LOTS OF GROUPS SINCE IT MIGHT NOT BE A GROUP I READ!

[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]





   This blank region of empty space is a hollow void that adds lines to the
                           length of this .signature's physical size.





[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]---[]
                *****   ___   ___      _________
                  *    /   \ /   \    | _______ |
                  *   |     V     |   | | * * | |     HELP ME NAME MY
                  *    \         /    | |_____| |     APPLE SE/30 WITH
                  *      \     /      |    ===  |     40MB MEGABYTE DRIVE
                  *        \ /        |_________|
                *****       v          |||||||||

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- Aren't these cute?
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- I was the one who
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) <--- invented them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  |\
        ---*--   |  \
    -"""      \__|   \
   /   : Qld  :  TAS  \
  /    :........       \
 ' SA  : AA    :.......*|   x = Schenectady NY USA
 \     :     * :NSW    /
  \*   :/""""""\`..x */
   ----'     VIC\ *`./
                 """"
                 \"""/
                NT\*/

Dan Quayle is Howdy Doody!  (And Susan Sontag is the Bride of Frankenstein!)
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    S  T  O  P      C  A  S  T  I  N  G      P  O  R  O  S  I  T  Y        |
+____________________________________________________________________________+
I've been to Cheers(TM) in downtown Boston and I have a T-Shirt that says
Cheers(TM) and the official Cheers(TM) Plastic Souvenir Shopping Bag!
Hey, is Ted Danson really as bald as they say?  He couldn't be, his hair's
fluffy, and wigs can't be fluffy!  William Shatner wears a toupee though,
I bet you didn't know that!  I hope I never go bald.  I'd lose my sex appeal.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Fats Loves Madelyn. / Honk if you hate bumper stickers that say "Honk if ..."
___________________/_________________________________________________________
"We're like gerbils.  We're in a cage running around and around."
                                                                -- Tom Brokaw
_____________________________________________________________________________
"OH WHAT A ZINGER!!!" -- CHRIS ELIOT  / "Married With Children" is the best
                         GET A LIFE  /  TV show ever!  Ted is the greatest!
_____________________________________/_______________________________________
Fly KLM!   /    Did you hear that PeeWee Herman was arrested for masterbating?
__________/____ Really!______________________________________________________
Dana Hersey is Willie Whistle in addition to hosting The Movie Loft (channel 6)
_____________________________________________________________________________
Read alt.exploding.kibo, the group about exploding kibo! /    NO FATE
________________________________________________________/
I put microwave coffee in the Tater Twister and almost /    KNOW FUTURE
went back in time!  -- Steven Wright (Emerson alumnus)/
_____________________________________________________/    NO DOGS ALLOWED
"NOT!" -- WAYNE'S WORLD  / "The Stevemeisterooski!" /
________________________/__________________________/_________POOR SPOT______

"If I had MY OWN NETWORK, it would be on ALL the TIME.  It would be EDUCATIONAL,
like COSMOS and NOVA, but not so DRY.  It would best be seen on HIGH-definition
TELEVISION.  And every DAY we'd READ from the BOOK of CHER, because when you
READ from the BOOK of CHER, it doesn't MATTER if you UNDERSTAND... it's the ACT
that MATTERS.  MY network would be METAphysical, paraNORMAL, and EXTRAORDINARILY
ORDINARY.  It would COMPEL you to RELAX and read `MADAME BOVARY', LOOK into the
MOUTHS of VOLCANOES and LEARN to make RISOTTO... It would have a LINEAR BUILD
and ARISTOTELIAN LINES... MY network would be both JARRING and AVANT-GARDE...
with just a TOUCH of BRIAN DENNEHY.  MY network would not promote WAR, WASTE,
DOUBT or ANXIETY, and would pose the question... What was MICHELLE PFEIFFER
doing in `Grease 2'?"  -- Sean E. Coates, the "E!" poster child

**************************(.signature continued)*******************************

   HOW MANY POSTS A DAY I MADE LAST WEEK
   ***************************************************************************
   *                                                                         *
   *                                                                         *
   *                                                                         *
   *                                                                         *
   *                                                                         *
   **                        W*T        T*W*T        T*WT                   **
   *            W*T*F    M*T*   *F     *     F     M*    *F     M            *
   *          T*    *    *       *     *     *     *      *     *            *
   *          *      *   *        *   M       *   *        *   *             *
   *          *      *   *        *   *       *   *        *   *             *
   *         *       *  *         *  *        *   *        *   *             *
   **        *        * *          * *         * *          * *             **
   *         M        S*S          SS          S*S          S*S              *
   *        *                                                                *
   *       S                                                                 *
   *         ^Labor Day            ^Sep 14                  ^Sep 28          *
   *                                                                         *
   *                  *                 *                 *                  *
   240 -x- 280  0 -y- 15000***************************************************

*******************************************************************************
MY TEN FAVORITE QUOTES: Broad-mindedness, n.: The result of flattening high-
mindedness out.  There is a certain impertinence in allowing oneself to be
burned for an opinion. All the good ones are taken.  "Microwave oven?  Whaddya
mean, it's a microwave oven? I've been watching Channel 4 on the thing for two
weeks."  Murphy was an optimist. Love means having to say you're sorry every
five minutes. No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats --
approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less. Get forgiveness now --
tomorrow you may no longer feel guilty. Commitment can be illustrated by a
breakfast of ham and eggs. The chicken was involved, the pig was committed.
You are here ------> * But you're not all there.  Kirkland, Illinois, law
forbids bees to fly over the village or through any of its streets.  Love and
scandal are the best sweeteners of tea.  A clairvoyant is a person, commonly a
woman, who has the power of seeing that  which is invisible to her patron --
namely, that he is a blockhead.  A multi-day event on public television, used
to raise money so  you won't have to watch commercials.  Try to get all of
your posthumous medals in advance.  The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the
needs of an expanding  bureaucracy.  The intelligence of any discussion
diminishes with the square of the number of participants.  The hearing ear is
always found close to the speaking tongue, a custom  whereof the memory of man
runneth not howsomever to the contrary,  nohow.  Good advice is something a
man gives when he is too old to set a bad  example.  -- La Rouchefoucauld
Professor Gorden Newell threw another shutout in last week's Chem. Eng. 130
midterm.  Once again no student received a single point on  his exam.  Newell
has now tossed 5 shutouts this quarter.  Newell's  earned exam average has now
dropped to a phenomenal 30%"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm
rich." -- "Ali Baba Bunny" [1957, Chuck Jones]  Marriage is the only adventure
open to the cowardly.  -- Voltaire  The First Rule of Program Optimization:
Don't do it.  The Second Rule of Program Optimization (for experts only!):
Don't do it yet.  -- Michael Jackson Goldenstern's Rules:  (1) Always hire a
rich attorney  (2) Never buy from a rich salesman.  The problem ... is that we
have run out of dinosaurs to form oil with.  Scientists working for the
Department of Energy have tried to form oil  using other animals; they've
piled thousands of tons of sand and Middle  Eastern countries on top of cows,
raccoons, haddock, laboratory rats,  etc., but so far all they have managed to
do is run up an enormous  bulldozer-rental bill and anger a lot of Middle
Eastern persons.  None  of the animals turned into oil, although most of the
laboratory rats  developed cancer.  -- Dave Barry, "Postpetroleum Guzzler"  If
a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape  at about
30 miles/second. -- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming Peanut Blossoms  4
cups sugar  16 tbsp. milk  4 cups brown sugar  4 tsp. vanilla  4 cups
shortening  14 cups flour  8 eggs  4 tsp. soda  4 cups peanut butter  4 tsp.
salt  Shape dough into balls.  Roll in sugar and bake on ungreased cookie
sheet at 375 F. for 10-12 minutes.  Immediately top each cookie with a
Hershey's kiss or star pressing down firmly to crack cookie.  Makes a  hell of
a lot.  Gyroscope, n.:  A wheel or disk mounted to spin rapidly about an axis
and also  free to rotate about one or both of two axes perpendicular to  each
other and the axis of spin so that a rotation of one of  the two mutually
perpendicular axes results from application of  torque to the other when the
wheel is spinning and so that the  entire apparatus offers considerable
opposition depending on  the angular momentum to any torque that would change
the direction of the axis of spin.  -- Webster's Seventh New Collegiate
Dictionary.  In fifteen minutes, everyone will be famous. -- Andy Warhol

_______________________________________________________________________________


                      .--------------.
                 .---'  o        .    `---.
              .-'    .    O  .         .   `-.
           .-'     @@@@@@       .             `-.
         .'@@   @@@@@@@@@@@       @@@@@@@   .    `.
       .'@@@  @@@@@@@@@@@@@@     @@@@@@@@@         `.
      /@@@  o @@@@@@@@@@@@@@     @@@@@@@@@     O     \
     /        @@@@@@@@@@@@@@  @   @@@@@@@@@ @@     .  \
    /@  o      @@@@@@@@@@@   .  @@  @@@@@@@@@@@     @@ \
   /@@@      .   @@@@@@ o       @  @@@@@@@@@@@@@ o @@@@ \
  /@@@@@                  @ .      @@@@@@@@@@@@@@  @@@@@ \
  |@@@@@    O    `.-./  .        .  @@@@@@@@@@@@@   @@@  |
 / @@@@@        --`-'       o        @@@@@@@@@@@ @@@    . \    Full Moon +
 |@ @@@@ .  @  @    `    @            @@      . @@@@@@    |     0  5:15:36
 |   @@                         o    @@   .     @@@@@@    |      Last Quarter -
 |  .     @   @ @       o              @@   o   @@@@@@.   |       7  3:55:27
 \     @    @       @       .-.       @@@@       @@@      /
  |  @    @  @              `-'     . @@@@     .    .    |
  \ .  o       @  @@@@  .              @@  .           . /
   \      @@@    @@@@@@       .                   o     /
    \    @@@@@   @@\@@    /        O          .        /
     \ o  @@@       \ \  /  __        .   .     .--.  /
      \      .     . \.-.---                   `--'  /
       `.             `-'      .                   .'
         `.    o     / | `           O     .     .'
           `-.      /  |        o             .-'
              `-.          .         .     .-'
                 `---.        .       .---'
                      `--------------'

                       I AM NOT A BOZO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^L

     ____|||||///
   /     |||||////        TERMINATOR TWO: BEST MOVIE IN THE WORLD !!!!!11
  /  __   ||    ////
 |   L|   :      ===      "Hasta la vista, baby!" -- ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER
 | |   __ : ___  =|=                                 (a personal friend)
 |    (_) :/__)   |
 |/       |      \|    <--- THE TERMINATOR
  |       .\     |
   \ \ \  :     /         I HOPE TERMINATOR THREE DOESN'T SUCK DEAD BUNNIES
    |  HHH---  |          THRU A STRAW LIKE BATMAN TWO !!!!!11
     \____:___/

"THERE IS NO BATHROOM" -- MY PAL ARNOLD, KINDERGARTEN COP

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;;;;::::;::::::::::::::

My son Herbie, age 7, needs a computer for school and I can't afford
one, would anyone like to give us one?  It would be a tax deduction for
you!  Herbie wants a Mac IIfx with a Color PostScript printer.  He needs
this by next week!  All the other kids in his class have them already!!!
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

STAR TREK RULEZ!!!       ________^_______     ============= - - - - - - - - -
                          \______ _____/\       /  /     -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Write-in to Paramount            V   \   \_____/__/_  - - - - WHOOSH! - - -
to keep them from killing Spock     )|US ENTERPRISE/ -  -  -  -  -  -  -
in their next movie!!!!              |____________/ - - - - - - - - - -

TOP TEN STAR TREK QUOTES         10) "I'm a doctor, not a mechanic."
9) "Dammit Jim!"                 8)  "Spit it out, man!"
7) "I kinna do it Captain, I have not th' power!"
6) "Where's the beef?"           5)  "They're BORN pregnant!"
4) "His BRAIN is missing!" "Oh... you noticed."
               ** send mail if you want the rest **

Majel Barett was only on STAR TREK because she was married to William Shatner.
The new STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION new series that they're making
now is too full of Yuppie bozos.  And the special effects are too good.
SHATNER COULDN'T DIRECT HIS WAY OUT OF THE BATHROOM WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP!

------------------------------------=-----------------------------------------
I have discovered a truly wonderful proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, but
unfortunately this .signature is too small to contain it.
-----------------------------------=----------------------------------------------
There exist no legitimate audio  tapes of me admitting to being
an  alien,  a  government   agent,   a  sexual  pervert,  or  the
camp-follower of little  grey  men  from  Zeta  Reticuli.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
I watch Nick at Nite all day!   Xibo watches stupid soap operas!
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

MY .SIGNATURE IS MORE POSTMODERN THAN YOURS!  (It's even autographed by
William S. Burroughs.  See--->?)              /
                                        \/\/. \. Burroughs
                                              /
I wish he hadn't stopped writing those Tarzan books though!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an out-of-date copy of each of the following MTS manuals: Vol. 1, 2,
5, 7, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 24.  If you want a copy, I'm selling 'em, $1 each.
I also have lots of plastic bags for five cents each!

/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\
 _________
/         \
|         |
\__\   /__/
  --| |--
   -| |-
   /| |\
/////\\\\\\
                           NUKE THE DAMN BUNNY ALREADY!!!!
   |  _
   \ /
    UU __
    ==/  \
   /\__o |
  *|__\__/
   /_ \_          "boomp boomp boomp boomp boomp..." "BOOM!!!!!!!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*****        *****    *****    ****************        ******************
*****        *****    *****    *****************      ********************
*****        *****    *****    ******************    **********************
*****        *****    *****    *****       ******    ******          ******
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****     My     *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****    name    *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****     is     *****
*****       *****     *****    *****       *****     *****    short   *****
***************       *****    ***************       *****   'cause   *****
****************      *****    ****************      *****    it's    *****
*****************     *****    *****************     *****    only    *****
*****       ******    *****    *****       ******    *****    four    *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****  letters!  *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****        *****    *****            *****
*****        *****    *****    *****       ******    ******          ******
*****        *****    *****    ******************    **********************
*****        *****    *****    *****************      ********************
*****        *****    *****    ****************        ******************

AND THIS IS THE PART OF THE .SIG THAT BROKE MIKE JITTLOV'S AMIGA!!!

V guvax guvf dhbgr ol Qnir Oneel, zl snibevgr jevgre, rkcynvaf jul V
bsgra jrne zl haqrejrne ba zl urnq jura V tb gb jbex:

Nyy lbh unir gb qb gb frr gur npphenpl bs zl gurfvf vf ybbx nebhaq
lbh.  Ybbx, va cnegvphyne, ng gur crbcyr jub, yvxr lbh, ner znxvat
nirentr vapbzrf sbe qbvat nirentr wbof -- onax ivpr cerfvqragf,
vafhenapr fnyrfzna, nhqvgbef, frpergnevrf bs qrsrafr -- naq lbh'yy
ernyvmr gurl nyy qerff gur fnzr jnl, rffragvnyyl gur jnl gur znaardhvaf
va gur Frnef zrafjrne qrcnegzrag qerff.  Abj ybbx ng gur erny
fhpprffrf, gur crbcyr jub znxr n ybg zber zbarl guna lbh -- Rygba Wbua,
Pncgnva Xnatnebb, nalobql sebz Fnhqv Nenovn, Ovt Oveq, naq fb ba.  Gurl
nyy qerff shaal -- naq gurl nyy fhpprrq.  Ner lbh pngpuvat ba?
                -- Qnir Oneel, "Ubj gb Qerff sbe Erny Fhpprff"

TO DECODE THE FUNNIST JOKE IN THE UNIVERSE JUST PIPE THAT THROUGH "UUDECODE(1)"
_____________________________________________________________________________
R-RATED GIF FOLLOWS, PRESS N NOW!
^L

  O
(.|.)
 ).(     TIFFANY BRISSETE HAS A GREAT BOD!  WOO WOO!!!!  HUBBA HUBBA!  YOW!
( | )
 \|/


|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

fee fi fo feh.  fee fi fo feh.  fee fi fo feh.  fee fi fo feh.  fee fi fo feh.
_____________________________________________________________________________

"100% gist-free!"  -- Amy S. Brockman on Kibo's .signature.
                      Compliment... or CONSPIRACY?
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

My favorite painters are Pollock, Rothko, Warhol, Dali', Miro', Tanguy,
Rockwell, Warhol, and myself.  I'm almost as good as Dali' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My least favorite musical composer is Salieri, since he was a bozo.
                               ____________________
                              /                    \
                             /                      \
             ^______________/    __       __         \______________^
             \              |   /  \     /  \        |              /
               \            |  |  o |   | o  |       |            /
                 \          |   \__/__   \__/        |          /
                   \        |      /  \              |        /
                     \      |      \__/              |      /
             BO-       \____|    __________          |____/      -ZO
                            |   / ________ \         |
                            \  | / ______ \ |        /
                             \ |/_/      \_\|       /
                              \____________________/
                                        |
                                        |
                                  \     |      /
                                   \----+-----/
                                        |
                                        |
                                        |
                                        /\
                                       /  \
                                      /    \
                        _____________/      \____________ (clown shoes)


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Ich bin ein .signature Virus. Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.
Don't ask what it means, just put it in your .signature, okay?

_____________________________________________________________________________
THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS POSTING ARE SOLELY THE AUTHORS' AND DO NOT
NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, RENSSELAER POLY-
POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE, PENN STATE, IBM, NASA, HARVARD UNIVERSITY, SCIENTOLOGY,
ATARI CORP., STANFORD UNIVERSITY, BITNET INC., SOFTWARE TOOL & DIE, INFOCOM,
PRODIGY, RALSTON PURINA INC., JAPAN, LYNDON LaROUCHE, THE SYSOP OF USENET,
GEORGE BUSH, THE LONDON TIMES, ORACLE CORPORATION, WILLIE WHISTLE, STAR TREK
THE NEXT GENERATION, THE HOME SHOPPING CLUB, THE HAIR CHANNEL FOR MEN, OR THE
CITY OF NEW YORK.  HOWEVER YOU CAN'T SUE ME FOR SAYING ANY OF THIS BECAUSE
IF YOU SUE ME YOU'D HAVE TO QUOTE ME IN COURT AND THEN I'D SUE YOU FOR
QUOTING THIS COPYRIGHTED (C) MESSAGE!!!  MY COUSINS ARE ALL LAWYERS !!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
******************************************************************************
* NEW drawing!                                                               *
* of a RADIK00L sword thats even BIGGER then the USS ENTERPRISE wow!         *
*                                                                            *
*                 ___                                                        *
*              /\/  /                       ====@====     /////////  ---------
*             /   _/                               ``________//              *
*            /   /                                    `------'   -------------
*           /   /                                                            *
* __===__  /   /                                                             *
*/       \/----+---------------------------------------\______               *
*|        |           XCALIBER THE DECAPITATER!!!!            \______________*
*|        |                                                   /~~~~~~~~      *
*\__====_/\---+----------------------------------------/~~~~~~               *
*          \  \                                                              *
*           \  \                                                             *
*            \  \                                                            *
*             \  \_                                                          *
*              \   \          NOTE: This isnt a hyperdermic needel !!!!!!    *
*               \   \                                                        *
*                \/\_\                                                       *
*                                                ITS SO GOOD I FRAMED IT !!!!*
******************************************************************************

aibophobia (ay' bo fo beeya): n. The fear of palindromes.

kibophobia (ki' bo fo beeya): n. The fear of Kibo.

kibophobik (ki' bo fo bik): n. The fear of Kibo's palindromes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'M STILL 100% FLAMEPROOF!   /   I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP!  /  HI MARK!
____________________________/____________________________________/___________
Arsenio Hall is the black Johnny Carson but Byron Allen is the black Pat Sajak!
But at least Byron Allen is funnier than Skip Stephenson or John Barbour!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
IBM's "AIX" operating system is better than "real" "UNIX" systems
because "AIX" has "man" pages that show "pictures" of each "command"!
Here's an "example", isn't this "cute"?

RM, DELETE(1,C)             AIX Commands Reference              RM, DELETE(1,C)

PURPOSE

Removes files or directories.

SYNTAX

  one of
+--------+   +------------+
| rm     |---|   +----+   |--- file ---|
| delete |   +---| -f |---+ ^        |
+--------+     ^ | -i | |   +--------+
               | | -r | |
               | | -- | |
               | | -s | |
               | +----+ |
               +--------+
____________________________________________________ \o clip and save _______
                                                     /O
                                                        <--those are scissors
                 .------------
             .--'  o     . .   `--
          .-'   .    O   .       . `
       .-'@   @@@@@@@   .  @@@@@
      /@@@  @@@@@@@@@@@   @@@@@@@   .<--- Crater Parry -- I paid $15 for it!
    ./    o @@@@@@@@@@@   @@@@@@@
    /@@  o   @@@@@@@@@@@.   @@@@@@@   O
   /@@@@   .   @@@@@@@o    @@@@@@@@@@     @
   |@@@@@               . @@@@@@@@@@@@@ o @@
  /@@@@@  O  `.-./  .      @@@@@@@@@@@@    @             Full Moon +
   | @@@@    --`-'       o     @@@@@@@@ @@@@              2 17:08:58
   |@ @@@        `    o      .  @@   . @@@@@@             Last Quarter -
   |       @@  @         .-.     @@@   @@@@@@             4 16:02:05
   \  . @        @@@     `-'   . @@@@   @@@@
     |      @@   @@@@@ .           @@   .
     \     @@@@  @\@@    /  .  O    .     o
      \  o  @@     \ \  /         .    .
       `\     .    .\.-.___   .      .   .-
          \           `-'                `-
           `-.   o   / |     o    O   .
               `-.   /     .       .    .
                  `--.       .      .--
                        `------------

          If this posting offends you, then you're a WEENERBRAIN!!!


             @@@@@@  @@  @@  @@@@@@        @@@@@@  @@  @@  @@@@@
               @@    @@  @@  @@            @@      @@@ @@  @@  @@
               @@    @@@@@@  @@@@@         @@@@@   @@@@@@  @@  @@
               @@    @@  @@  @@            @@      @@ @@@  @@  @@
               @@    @@  @@  @@@@@@        @@@@@@  @@  @@  @@@@@

             @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
             Dedicated to Gene Roddenberry, who died last year...
             @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

-------\__/
|     * /
|_____-/  BOSTON, MASSACHUSSETTS <-- SITE OF WORLD.COM PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX
                                     ONLY A DOLLAR A MINUTE PLUS CONNECT TIME!

          AND NO I DON'T KNOW MICHAEL DUKAKIS PERSONALLY!
^L

12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!!



 ^L
 ^L
 ^L
 ^D
 ^D
 ^D
 .
 exit
 stop
 bye
 ^C
 ^Z
 !sh
 !ed
 /exit
 quit
 q
 /quit
 ~x
 help
 help stop
 !help
 logout
 $signoff
 write sysop "how do i stop this ???"
 psot
 post
 ^P^O^S^T

 this line intentionally left blank so that the following line will be #350.

 THIS IS THE THREE HUNDRED FIFTIETH LINE OF MY .SIGNATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                                the edn


P.S.:
----------
From [e-mail] Tue Jul  2 11:28:05 1991
To: James 'Kibo' Parry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Call for creation of alt.evolutionary.acceleration
From: Industrial Poet <[e-mail]>
Comments: Civilization is a momentary failure of entropy
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 91 10:55:39 BST
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

Might I suggest adding the following quote to your .signature:

"It seems like it's time to retire the length-of-sig-wasted-bandwidth flame.
The point really is, News is BIG and .signatures, even long ones, are small."
                            - Mark-Jason Dominus <[e-mail]>


mathew
----------
--
--
From [e-mail] Sat May  9 01:19:46 1992
Date: Fri, 8 May 92 22:19:07 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Berlin)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  your .sig

Hi there.

Thanks for your nifty .sig.  I already got a copy from alt.fan.warlord,
but with such a wonderful work of art, you can never have too many copies,
can you?  Well, of course you can!  I mean, "Mona Lisa" is a damn good
painting, but am I going to hang it in every room in my apartment?  No!
But I digress.

Anyway, to make your .sig a bit more "user-friendly", here is an index for
it.  The numbers, of course, refer to line numbers.
I'll let someone ELSE do a table of contents.

Suggestions for index:
1)  Append it to the end of the .sig
2)  Include it as a seperate file
3)  Just delete the damn thing, log off, and watch Ren and Stimpy
or (my favorite):  append it to the end of your sig, THEN log off and
watch Ren and Stimpy.

- Stev0


13, Rot - 610-623
Address - 55-58
Autograph, Burroughs, William S. - 527-533
Child, Dying - 155-174
Copyright - 86-88
Credits - 19,20
Dedication - 781-783
Disclaimers - 22-25, 89-98, 142, 153, 216, 276, 474, 677-686, 772, 790
Drawings, ASCII:
    Bozo - 644-670
    Brain - 28-37
    Bunny, Energizer, Being Nuked - 540-556
    Check, Amiga - 223-243
    Dog - 40-48
    Enterprise - 501-506, 692-695
    Simpson, Bart, Minimalist - 245-253
    Sword - 692-709
    Terminator - 478-489
    unknown (command flow?) 736-744
    unknown (computer?) 293-300
End, The - 775-780, 831
Favorites:
    Author - 77-81
    Font - 144-146
    Heavy Metal Band - 245-253
    Movie - 137-138
    Movie - 478-489
    Painters - 641-643
    Quotes - 388-440
    Quotes, Star Trek - 507-511
    SF Short Story - 207-208
    Skeleton Joke - 210
Feh, Fee Fi Fo - 638
Font, BUA - 257-273
Font, Biggest UA - 559-609
GIF, R-Rated - 626-635
History - 2-16
Line 350 - 828
Manuals, MTS - 535-537
Map, Australia - 308-320
Map, Massachusetts - 785-788
Map, Moon 442-473, 748-771
Network, Sean Coates' - 350-362
Peeks, Twin - 176-205
Phobias - 712-716
Posts Made, Number of - 364-386
Quitting Attempts - 794-825
Quotes, Random - 57-75, 83, 84, 99-135, 140-152, 212-214, 321-348,
                 490-497, 514-525, 723-734
Scissors - 745-746
Score, Tetris - 220
Smilies - 303-305
Space, Blank - 280-291
Virus, .Sig, German - 672-674

====

Alt.alien.visitors elected me OFFICIAL Spokesman For The Planet Earth!


---------

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] signed:
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Carol Osterbrock       *   Life is too short for 4 line .sigs
>[e-mail]    *    -- well, if Kibo didn't say it, he should have
>==============================================================================


----------

                UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this
                IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED.

RMS told me to plug the League For Programmed Freedom in my .signature
so I did.  Join the LPF!  RMS is cool.

                     SEE BATMAN 2 !!!!
--

                        I HAVE A BLACK BELT !

--


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:49:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 36


    [e-mail] (Nicholas P Nelson) writes:
    Is there a consensus that there is a lack of hard evidence?
    If there is not a consensus then where or what is the hard
    evidence?

...I have no idea if there is a consensus, but one reason there isn't
much hard evidence is because evidence is squirreled away by the
government.

   For instance, the object (whatever it was) that crashed at Roswell
in 1947 was taken in its entirety away from the crash site and sent to
various places (WPAFB, others).  It was called a radar-targeting
balloon (or weather balloon) -- but a few days earlier a balloon of
the type described landed in Ohio and was completely ignored by the
military (the guy who found it was allowed to keep it.)  If the
whatever-it-was could be examined by you and me, we'd know what it
was, but we can't.  Why?

   Likewise the 1965 Keckburg, Pa. object (whatever *it* was) was
whisked away by the Air Force; we can't look at it.  Why?

   Sometimes the existance of evidence was never made known, for
instance gun-camera footage from aircraft intercepting objects
(whatever they are).  "... reports of unidentified flying objects
which could affect the national security" (whatever that means) "are
made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11 and are
not part of the Blue Book system" (memo from USAF Brig. Gen. Bolender,
1969).  Even the "Blue Book" files are therefore incomplete - on
purpose.

... so the playing field is not exactly level.  Try picking up "Clear
Intent", by Fawcett and Greenwood, 1984, or "Above Top Secret", by
Good, 1988 (recently reprinted in paperback) to get started.

Charles
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34914 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2692 sci.skeptic:36490 alt.paranormal:6254 alt.alien.visitors:12286 alt.conspiracy:21376
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The New Physics of "The Force" of "Star Wars".
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:48:08 GMT
Lines: 178


Progress Report on The New Age Physics of "The Force" of "Star Wars".

ABSTRACT
Precognition is put on a sound basis in terms of a new physics that can be
tested.  The new physics involves a minimal generalization of standard
quantum mechanics (NSQM) but reduces to standard quantum mechanics (SQM) in
the relevant limit the way general relativity reduces to special relativity
when curved spacetime flattens out.

1. Looking at Feynman's classic 1949 papers on quantum electrodynamics
(QED) from the 1992 perspective of quantum gravity suggests that the
"ultra-violet catastrophe" is easily avoided by using the Planck length
(i.e. 10^-5 grams = 10^-33 cm etc.) as the high-momentum/short wavelength
cut-off.

QED is "semi-classical" in that the spacetime metric is classical only the
photon and electron fields are quantized.  The metric quantum fluctuates so
strongly at the cut-off that Lorentz symmetry breaks down. There is no
smoothness, no differentiability there.  The geometry of quantum gravity is
fractal! Note that in semiclassical QED the worldlines of photons and
electrons are fractal but the metric is not.

The renormalization "shell game" of Feynman et-al neglects gravity and has
infinite bare mass ( i.e., -m(0)) and bare charge (i.e., -e(0)) with
infinite self-energy (virtual photons and virtual pairs) mass shift (i.e.,
+@m) and vacuum polarization charge shift (i.e. +@e) such that the observed
mass (i.e. m) and charge (i.e. e) of the electron is finite

m = -m(0) + @m > 0

-e = -e(0) + @e < 0

It is also shown that the observed real photon mass is zero (Lorentz-
invariant gauge invariance) in spite of virtual electron-positron pairs in
the real photon propagation.

All of this was done without any thought of gravity. We have seen how a
simple classical model of a point electron with gravity gives a finite
self-energy. That is the clue.

By simply sticking in the Planck cut-off into Feynman's formulas for the
lowest-order leading diagrams of perturbation we get that @m and @e are not
infinite but very close to the observed values consistent with

m(0) = 0

e(0) = 0

so that gravity in a sense causes both the mass and the charge of the
electron. This is a very different philosophy which may also connect
gravity to the Higgs mechanism of spontaneous broken symmetry in the
quantum vacuum.


2. Quantum -connection communication.
If it exists it may explain "telepathy", "precognition", "mind-matter
interaction" and how the designed universe comes into being from the
advanced intelligence inside it but in the far future!

The "transactional interpretation" of QM (John Cramer), a spinoff of the
Feynman path picture, as well as the Wheeler "delayed choice" and the
"quantum eraser" experiments, suggests that when an atom emits a photon or
a photon pair, that the state created is not a local phenomenon but depends
on how that photon or photon pair is going to be detected in the future. I
am also using a Bohmian "quantum potential" picture here in which there is
real nonlocal action at a distance that exerts forces and torques
originating in the future detection on the atom emission in the past.

For example, in the Aspect experiment

                   1                            2
+' --------<-------------------|  |----------------------->-------- +
         /                 pair source                       \
  I    /                                                       \   II
     /                                                           \
-' /                                                              \ -

For this total experimental arrangement the photon pair state is

|1,2> = (1/rt2)[|1+>|2+> + |1->|2->] = (1/rt2)[|1+'>|2+'> + |1-'>|2-'>] (1)

where <+|+'> = <-|-'> = cos@   (2a)

      <+|-'> = -<-|+'> = sin@  (2b)

from the theory of group representations (i.e. spin 1 rep of orthogonal
rotation group around line of flight of back-to-back photon pair).

@ = @(I) - @(II)    (3)

where @(I) is actual orientation of the polarizer beam splitter at the
local event when photon 1 scatters from it etc.

*Note that Budnik's objection against Aspect's experiment is totally
meaningless operationally.

The standard quantum prediction for the nonlocal joint probability that
violates Bell's locality inequality is then

p(1+'|2+) = |<1+'|<2+|1,2>|^2 = (1/2)(cos@)^2     (4)

which is observed to a precision of 5 standard deviations away from the
Bell-inequality prediction in Aspect;s 1982 exeriment in Paris.

But now let us consider a different total experimental arrangement:


              1                            2                 +
+' --------<------|  |----------->--------------------------------
         /                 pair source            \               |
  I    /                                            \   II        |
     /                                                \           |
-' /                                                    \ ----||--#
                                                            -    +
RECEIVER                                             TRANSMITTER

ANSATZ: the "ab-initio" photon pair state is not |1,2> as in eq (1) but is,
rather,

|1,2>' = (1/rt2)|2+>[e^i&|1+> + |1->]    (5)

where & is the translational phase shift controlled at II but detected at
I.  Note that the space-time separation between the local detections at
events I and II is irrelevant. This is pre-geometrical phenomenon.  The
idea is that real nonlocal quantum forces and quantum torques from II
distort the usual J = 0 ->1->0 cascade of Aspect's experiment to create
|1,2>'.

Note that the "transmitter" event II for photon 2 is a kind of
interferometer with a half-wave plate (i.e.,"polarization quantum eraser")
in one alternate path which rotates the plane of polarization of photon 2
by 90 degrees in space from - to +. The symbol # represents a special
"clamped" detector in which photon 2 excites a delocalized elementary
excitation in such a way that there is no trace of which path phton 2 took
through the interferometer (i.e. "space path quantum eraser").

We already know that the time-evolution |1,2> -> |1,2>', that is,

(1/rt2)[|1+>|2+> + |1->|2->] -> (1/rt2)|2+>[e^i&|1+> + |1->]   (6)

is not unitary even though it conserves local probabilities. It is not
unitary because it does not respect the invariance of the inner product
<2+|2-> = 0. Therefore, it is not permitted in standard quantum mechanics
(SQM), although it would be permitted in a non-standard quantum mechanics
(NSQM) which still conserved local probabilities. The relation of SQM to
NSQM would parallel that of Euclidean geometry to non-Euclidean geometry.
NSQM violates "retarded causality" that causes are always before their
effects.  Feynman's propagator boundary condition for contours in the
energy plane about poles in quantum electrodynamics (QED) also violates
retarded causality.

A similar problem arose in classical relativity because it takes infinite
energy to push a subluminal particle up to the Einstein classical barrier
of the speed of light.  However, nothing prevents a faster-than-light
(tachyon) particle being created ab-initio. Such a particle would violate
retarded causality but it would not violate the symmetry group structure of
special relativity.

I have leap-frogged over the non-unitarity problem by conjecturing that (5)
is not necessary to conceive as happening as a time - evolution. The
"transaction" between the future detection events I and II with the past
source event S conspire to make |1,2>' rather than |1,2> in the new total
experimental arrangement.  If this is the way the world works then the
locally decodable nonlocally transmitted quantum connection signal S(I)
received at I but transmitted from II is

S(I) = |<1+|1,2>'>|^2 - |<1-|1,2>|^2 = sin2@cos&    (7)

in which the nonlocal un-hidden variables @ and & are controlled from II
and modulate the signal received at I.

In the delayed choice mode the signal is transmitted from the frame-
invariant timelike future of its reception. This would be genunie
precognition. Any attempt to create a time paradox would fail in this sort
of situation. In other words there would be no free-will and equipment
would malfunction to prevent a time paradox.  The Force of Star Wars keeps
the universe globally self-consistent in such a case!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse
From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: Re: NASA antigravity patent
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:14:40 GMT
Lines: 14


  I would like a copy of that patent too.


--
============================================================
  "No creature that is intelligent and with the right
   values is an alien to me."
                        John Salter
============================================================
    Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
============================================================


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:12:08 GMT
Lines: 8

Just like the Nike commercials say:

                        JUST DO IT !  :)



                                Joe Citro III

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary
From: [e-mail] (Ed McCreary)
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Netnews Account)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:40:43 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Lamont) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Dear People: I'm not an alien. I was born in Texas.
>
>That's alien enough for me.
>

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!

--
Ed McCreary                                               ,__o
[e-mail]                       _-\_<,
"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao."  (*)/'(*)
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5578 alt.alien.visitors:12290
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Collective, dispassionate aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:22:06 GMT
Lines: 20


Hey folks. I was intrigued by Winstons description of the Greys as
collective types, very un-individualistic. And i started thinking about
how often alien civilizations are depicted in this manner. Think back
to Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and then come forward to the
Borg on star trek. Very frequently the aliens are depicted as being
hard working collectivists, lacking in emotion and individuality
but being very efficient.

Why is this? Is it because Americans like to affirm themselves as being
different and individualistic? Is it because we (as a society) wish that
we were more collectivistic? Or is it because this collectivism is
very frightening to our individualistic mentalities?

How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish,
and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america?
are drugs legal on alien worlds? why am i ranting like this instead
of working?


Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5579 alt.alien.visitors:12291
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!isaac.its.rpi.edu!kasprj
From: [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Collective, dispassionate aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: isaac.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: The Big Wedge
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:30:03 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rob Dobson) writes:
|>
|> How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish,
|> and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america?

 Because such races would never make it off their home planet.

 Then again, there are the Ferengi...
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: [e-mail] or [e-mail]

Xref: icaen sci.physics:34929 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2695 sci.skeptic:36497 alt.paranormal:6258 alt.alien.visitors:12292 alt.conspiracy:21406
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!ucbvax!ucdavis!landau.ucdavis.edu!carlip
From: [e-mail] (Steve Carlip)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: The New Physics of "The Force" of "Star Wars".
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:46:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: sci.physics
Organization: Physics, UC Davis
Lines: 47

I'm probably going to regret this follow-up, but there's enough almost-physics
here that I can't resist...

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti) writes:
>[...]
>1. Looking at Feynman's classic 1949 papers on quantum electrodynamics
>(QED) from the 1992 perspective of quantum gravity suggests that the
>"ultra-violet catastrophe" is easily avoided by using the Planck length
>(i.e. 10^-5 grams = 10^-33 cm etc.) as the high-momentum/short wavelength
>cut-off.

Easily?  Then you should by all means publish your results.  The speculation
that Planck length effects cut off divergences in quantum field theory has
been around for years, and a lot of interesting work has been done, but no
one has yet managed to find a way to consistently implement such a cutoff.
Do you have a way to preserve approximate Lorentz invariance at low energies?
Do you know how to avoid the divergences of quantum gravity itself?  Is your
cutoff at exactly the Planck length (no extra factors of two or pi)?  Why?
What variables are you applying this cutoff to?  In general relativity,
you can't just Fourier transform between position and momentum space, so a
momentum cutoff is not necessarily equivalent to a length cutoff.  How do
you deal with overlapping loops in Feynman diagrams?  Etc... The idea that
quantum gravity cuts off divergences is a very nice one, and I hope it's
true, but we're going to have to know a hell of a lot more than we do now
before this becomes more than an interesting conjecture.

>QED is "semi-classical" in that the spacetime metric is classical only the
>photon and electron fields are quantized.  The metric quantum fluctuates so
>strongly at the cut-off that Lorentz symmetry breaks down. There is no
>smoothness, no differentiability there.  The geometry of quantum gravity is
>fractal! Note that in semiclassical QED the worldlines of photons and
>electrons are fractal but the metric is not.

If the metric is nontrivial, Lorentz invariance breaks down independent of
how strong the fluctuations are.  And if by "the worldlines of photons and
electron" you mean "the paths that contribute to the functional integral,"
then you're not quite right here --- in quantum mechanics, nowhere-smooth
paths dominate, but in quantum field theory, the dominant configurations
are not even continuous (nothing so neat as a "fractal").  As for quantum
gravity, no one knows what the geometry is like, or even whether geometry
makes sense at the Planck scale.  Again, if you have some real evidence for
"fractal geometry," please publish!

>[much more deleted]

Steve Carlip
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!csar!chattend
From: [e-mail] (Chuck Hattendorf)
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:10:46 GMT
Lines: 31

[e-mail] (Jim Atwell) writes:

>Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of
>up-to-date Australian UFO reports?

>If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll
>organize some regular postings.

>Regards,
>          Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
>                              |  PO Box 281
>          Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
>          3:800/851           |  Australia


>___
> * CRR QWK 1.40 *

> * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

Jim,
    I, for one, would be interested in Aussie UFO reports. Also reports
of sightings,etc. from the U.S. for that matter! I thought that would make up
the majority of entries on this newsgroup when I subscribed...sounds like
another newsgroup could be formed. Thanks!

*    Charlie Hattendorf       Realtime Computer support -       /|            *
* Technical Representative         While you wait!             /-|MIGA works. *
*  619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD    "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool *
* internet: [e-mail]    would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries *
* views expressed are mine(d) alone.     "There's AU in 'dem 'thar hills..."  *
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13422 alt.alien.visitors:12294 sci.skeptic:36499
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Bolivia Information repost.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 11:04:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Folks: I will now attempt to repost the Bolivian information with
corrections and additions. My communication system has been down for
a few days.
John Winston
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13423 alt.alien.visitors:12295 sci.skeptic:36500
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Bolivian Information with corrections. Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 11:07:31 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 44

Subject: Bolivia Encounter. Part 2.
  This is a continuation of our last information about a person coming in
contact with some space people.
  "I don't know how long I stood there, unmoving. I only know  something
suddenly touched my arm, and that I then turned, like in a dream, and what I
saw paralyzxed me still more, because beside me were standing two men in
diver's suits! I still remember wondering about that, and asked myself why
these two would run in the middle of the jungle in diver's dresses. Then I
realized many differences.  These dresses were very evidently much lighter
in weight than any diver's suits known to me, and the silvery color was not
like any diver's suits I knew of. The two blonde men wore no helmets or
other environmental headgear, but had on their suits strange looking
instruments of different size and form. Still paralyzed, I could not speak a
word, though the men, who evidently belonged to the flying saucer, did not
look malicous and even laughed in a friendly way. Then one of them spoke,
but I could not understand a single word.  then the second one tried but to
no better result. I did not understand a word.  their language seemed
totally strange to me, but of a melodic and sympathetic sound that in any
event calmed me and seemed to loosen my paralysis."
  "Both men were about the same sized, the size of myself, about 1.74 meters.
They took me by the arms and guided me to their spacecraft, which I allowed
without resistance. About 5 meters from the spacecraft they had set up some
peculair things, among which were the some strange stolls or chairs, on
which  we sat down.  I still could not speak.  Smiling in a friendly way
now, one of them spoke to me, but again I could not understand anything. His
speaking had the effect of releasing the paralysis and the stiffness was now
gone. I became very calm, and now suddenly I could speak too. In Spanish I
inquired in astonishment about this incomprehensible occurrence, yet now,
evidently, I was not understood. So I tried English with the same result, as
well by my German language of home.  We simply could not talk to each other.
Then once more one of the men spoke to me in his melodic soft voice while he
reached to his waist and switched on a device hanging there. It was no
bigger than a cigarette box. While speaking suddenly his language changed,
and just as suddenly I heard spanish words, then French, and then German. I
don't know why but I was joyfully excited about this, which the man must
have noticed because the German language remained on, and now I realized the
men talking to me in my native language. I still remember very clearly what
they first said, "..now we can talk together by means of our language
translator. Be greeted and do not fear. We are here in peace and will depart
in peace again." These were the first words I could understand, and I will
surely never forget them or the sounding of their words. It so impressed me
that I memorized all very deeply, believe me."
End Part 2.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13424 alt.alien.visitors:12296
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Cadiz Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 11:14:09 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 76

1>+5'(((((
)Subject: The Underground
City Near Cadiz. Part 2.
 This is a continuation of the information about the underground city found
between Bartox and Needles, Calif.
  Afer getting the information about the city I made several trips to the
area. I went out to the area where my friend was picked up and saw a large
shaft of light in a vertical (up and down) position in the lite  layer of
clouds during the day and figured it was some sort of space craft. I then
went out to Bonanza Springs and stayed in an old cabin made out of about 24
doors all put together.
   My friend Gary  and I then were told to go over at Cadiz, Calif. and meet a
lady by the name of Marge Bell (who has now moved). She seemed to think it
was some sort of a miracle that I had found her but I just told her that I
often found people that way. It seems that just outside of the gas station
at Cadiz is one of the best places in the world  to watch UFOs. You can
nearly set your watch by them coming out (during certain months of the
year). Most of them are of the spirit lights form. They blink on and off and
start from the Marine Base about 13 miles to the SW and come over Cadiz.
Many times UFO researchers come and camp out in her front yard with all of
their fancy long range camera lens and equipment just to get pictures. We
saw about 14 of them the night we were there and also saw a 350 feet long
one going into the clipper mountains at a  distance of about 1 mile when we
were going back to the cabin to sleep that night.
  I made quite a few trips into the area but finally stopped because I figured
that I was being given the mesaage that it wasn't time to bring out the city
yet. On one trip I was advized by a pyschic  to not go because something bad
may happen to me. I went anyway. While going down the road in my Pinto
station wagon I suddenly lost 1 and one half guarts of oil in a car that
didn't use much oil at all. I then ran over a rock that messed up the bottom
of the car and a wheel and axle fell off the trailer. I went over to Marge's
house and talked to her husband who said he had been in the area where the
entrance to the city was. He had found an area where a large cave had been
sealed up by large stones and cement. He said it looked a lot like how a dam
or bridge is made out of stone. He offered to take us in the next day but
when we came for him the next day he was all broken out with a rash on his
legs and he felt that he was going to die very soon. He went to a hospital,
came back then went again and he died within two or three months time.
  I finally got the message that maybe somebody didn't want me around anymore.
During the time I was there I did see a lot of weird stuff. My friend Gary
and my son were in a cabin waiting on me when they heard a lady talking and
couldn't see anyone, they heard a high pitched noise that they said sounded
like a banchi come up the hill and then down again and never could see
anything but they were looking right at it. They heard and saw a door slam
with no wind in the area. They also saw a small whirlwind that was about 20
inches tall just dance around in front of them. Gary had an implant put in
this neck while he was asleep and a red spot appeared on his neck that
stayed for about teo weeks. I saw a white colored rock that lite up in the
center and glowed like burning embers at night. I sat down on the rock for a
while and then went on my journey. I later laid down in the desert to rest
and came to conciousness aboard a space craft that was lit up in astral
colors. The two robe wearing individuals allowed me to pilot the craft
around for a while and then  I came back to conciousness on the cold ground
and I was still warm. As I was coming back I noticed that there was
apparently a light behind me that was lighting my way because I was able to
walk through the desert with ease and not fall into the cutter bushes and
catus that was along my way. I bragged about this is my mind and thought I
must be developing some sort of psychic vision. The light went away and I
fell down a small drop in the dry stream in which I was walking and hurt my
leg. I then started to fall into the bushes that would cut you. I  told the
interlligence that whoever or whatever was producing the light, I would
appreciate it if they would turn the light back on. The light did come back
and I made it out OK. The moon came out about 2 hours later.
  I haven't done any more investigation of the city for the last few years.
There is a person on this Net by the name of Dan and I feel that it will be
his job to find the city. Good luck Dan you'll need it.
The End I think.
John Winston.

It seems that just outside of the gas station at Cadiz is one of the best p
5w5
,3x$x3xgx
x@xx#x2x5x7x
,<
0Roman 10cpiUFO researchers come and camp out in her front yard with all
of their fancy long range camera lens and equipm
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13425 alt.alien.visitors:12297 alt.religion.kibology:5580
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Greys. Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 11:17:37 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 83

1>+g&'''''
(Subject: Greys. Friend Or
Foe? Part 2.
  This is a continuation of the information about the Greys.
The collective consciousness of the Greys has many good assets, such as high
productiveity, pyschic connection, and one-pointedness of thought.  There is
always concern for the future and the environment, and there are rarely any
conflicts because they all work for the group. Negatively, they can be seen
as detached "sheep" that allow thenselves to be dominated by the group. Our
individuality also has many good assets, such as accelerated soul growth,
here and now aliveness, and a uniqueness that makes each person special.
Negatively, we are seen as overemotional, moody people who care only for
today and only do what enhances our sense of ego self.

It is interesting to compare ourselves to the Greys, we are very different
from each other, we humans are individualistic, while they are collective,
we are enotional, while they are detached. What it comes down to is that the
Greys and the Humans, are basically exact opposites of each other. To put it
simply, together we form a duality. We represent the individual, and they
represent the society. Out emphasis has been on valuing personal growth,
while theirs has been on unified growth. And this duality is the ultimate
causal reason which brings the Greys and us into interaction with each
other. Like attracts like, but opposites attract too, since in truth,
polarized opposites are one.
(Some finrmation about astrology will now be omitted JW)

The Greys are a dying face. This is because their collectiveness is to such a
degree that they have stifled individual life, and hence the "cells" that
make up the Reticulum are dying.  We of Earth (at least in the forties) were
also a dying race headed toward self-destruction: Greed, egotism,
selfishness of all kinds, combined with more and deadlier weapons without
respect for others or our planet. We both were headed toward our extinction,
and there was only one thing that could save us both: each other! This is
the rason behind the creation of the Hybrid race - to create a race of
beings with the best of both worlds: individual power and uniqueness
combined with a strong inclination to work together harmoniously.

In order to create the Hybrid bodies, we need to mix the DNA of Humans and
Greys.  The main thing done by the Greys in the abduction of people is the
sampling of sperm which is then united with the egg of  a female alien, or
else the sampling of  a human egg which is united with alien sperm.
Recently, there has been direct alien/human mating  aboard their craft. In
"Communion", I heard sometimes a human female is impregnated with alien
sperm, and the fetus is then "stolen" out of the uterus in a later
abduction.  This is why so many of the extraterrestrial examinations are of
a sexual nature, and similar precise scars made during them.  Of course,
this process has lots of complexity, and the Greys have to be attuned to the
growth of  the abductees and many other things, since they can't just fly in
and beam someone up off the street. This can explain the prupose of the
implants as well as contacts throughout life all the way back to childhood.
(It also explains the rationale of a case posted to the net earlier, i.e.
why an llien was annoyed when it realized an abductee had had a vasectomy
earlier.)

The Greys are behind the so-called cattle mutilations.  this is because human
and Grey DNA aren't the only things going into the Hybrids, a few other
creatures, including our Earth cattle, have been used. If one were to
examine such a "Mutilation", they would probably find them to be done in a
formal manner with precise cuts like the abductions. As for why the cattle
are killed and left lying there, several possiblities come to mind: First,
the Greys are so detached and down to business that they would be wholly
devoted to their task at hand, and cleaning up is therefore "irrelevant" to
the mission. Precise cuts and hard to duplicate biological modifications can
 be done to promote speculation among us as to the aliens' presense, (like
the crop circles). Finally, some of the Earth Change literature says cattle
are one of the species that have been asked to be "taken off the Earth"
before the Equinox, so constructively using the cattle for a good purpose
does no harm. At any rate, the Greys are much more humane and serve a higher
purose than the ways people butcher cattle for meat.
  This is me, JW speaking now. Boy if I were a cow, I would put in for a
transfer.
End Part 2.
John Winston.

se of ego self.

It isgwg
,(xfxyx
{x3xmxoxF    xH    x%
x'
xrxGxTxcxgxix,<
0Roman 10cpif each other. To put it simply, together we form a duality. We
represent the individual, and they represent t
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: VIDEO - BEYOND DENIAL
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:32:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 23

I just wanted to inform anyone who would do business with Bill Knell
from Island Skywatch to refrain from buying the video BEYOND DENIAL.
He is selling it illegaly.

One of the members of my UFO Group (Silicon Valley Skywatchers) sent
him the video to share new material. In the very beginning of the tape
it says in bold print the tape is not for comercial use but can be
distributed free of charge. Bill is charging $20.
The thing that really upsets me is that the flyer for the tape went out
in his newsletter but he made sure it didn't get put into our newsletter.
A friend in another state sent us a copy. The sneak!

I am very dissapointed in him and feel he is just trying to make a buck.
He is listed in the FAQ so just be aware that he may be a jerk (IMHO).

P.S. For the curious - I did contact the creator of the video and faxed
him a copy of the flyer.

--
........--=={0}==--.........................--=={0}==--..............
--=={0}==--  * .   *. [e-mail]  *   .*  --=={0}==--.
 *   --=={0}==-- *  .   DENISE FAITH SOLIS     --=={0}==--*.*
--=={0}==--.....--=={0}==--..................*.............--=={0}==--
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:20:38 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear People: I'm not an alien. I was born in Texas.
>John Winston.

What's the difference, John?


kbq
--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5581 alt.alien.visitors:12300
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cwatters
From: [e-mail] (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: Collective, dispassionate aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:55:20 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rob Dobson) writes:

[snippage]
>
>How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish,
>and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america?

The Ferengi on ST:TNG for one.  (only one I can think of right now)

I think the general philosophy is that any race which achieves the ability
of interstellar travel should have been able to solve all of their societal
problems.

The "group-mind" concept is not always shown as evil or dark
in fiction, one of Asimov's Foundation books explores this as an alternative.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:48:35 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ed McCreary) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Lamont) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>Dear People: I'm not an alien. I was born in Texas.
>>
>>That's alien enough for me.
>>
>
>Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!
>
>--
>Ed McCreary                                               ,__o
>[e-mail]                       _-\_<,
>"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao."  (*)/'(*)

Yo, Ed!  What's a pair of boots with a cowboy hat sitting on top of 'em?

A Texan with the s#*t kicked out of 'em!

kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13426 alt.alien.visitors:12302 alt.religion.kibology:5582
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 13:05:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 76

1>+w#$$$$$
%Subject: Where We Came From.
  If I may be so bold I would like to give you my and Walter P.'s opinion as
to how we humans got started and what we have been doing in the past. I'll
start off with some of Walter's information that he gathered.

The story begins when we first entered this third dimensional universe through
the stargate in the belt of Orion. Various solar systems (including the
Orion system itself) were inhabited by various races. The main race we are
concerned with here is one that inhabited the planet sytem at Lyra, and are
presently known by us as the Lyrians.

With much effort, the Lyrians developed technology and space travel. However,
this being early on in the development of our galaxy, they were still rather
primitive as far as spiritual wisdom goes, and therefore would often fall
into conflicts among themselves, just as we on Earth have done in our own
history.  The Lyrians eventuallly divided into two groups: those who felt
that they should expand militarily and control as much of the universe as
possible, and those who desired peace and non-interference.

The peace desiring Lyrians eventually left their planet in search of a
different place to settle where there would be no more war (leaving the
original Lyrians to fight among themselves).  They searched until they found
an amaxzingly fertile and uninhabited planet, our Earth. They settled Earth
(after editing their genetic coding so that they could live in our
atmosphere), and redeveloped their technology.  This means that Earth
humanity's ultimate ancestors are the Lyrians.

Run away from your problems, and they will follow you until you deal with
them. Unfortunately, the Lyarian Earthlings hadn;'t really eliminated their
violent tendencies, and soon fell into fighting among themselves. Once
again, there was a split in the race, and a group of them emigrated again,
leaving to search for *another* planet, where they could *really* get it
right this time, and no longer have conflict. So this group searched and
found a new star system which had been formed relatively recently, the
Pleiades, and settled the various planets there. Note that this means that
we of Earth are technically the ancestors of the Pleiadians, and not the
other way around.  The colonization of new worlds can explain how we and the
Pleiadians can look almost identical, and also how an advanced race can live
in a star system which is relatively new.

These early Pleiadians by now were emotionally messed up, having had to
evacuate their previous home planets twice previously.  They realzed that
unless they did something different, they would just fall into conflict
again.  Therefore, they turned inward, meditaiting a great deal and
experiencing their inner worlds, starting their spiritual path. Again, with
effort, they redeveloped technology, but they kept to themselves, and did
not fly around the universe.  Soon they were living in such an inner Pisean
world, that they began to lose touch with reality, and had escaped from and
became unaware of exteranl things happening esewhere in the glaxy.

This was still long ago, and the majority of the galaxy was still in  a
spiritually unenlightened state, The other two races, the Earthians and the
original Lryians, were still fighting among themsleves (and therfore kept on
destroying their technological efforts, falling behind the Pleiadians.)
However, there was a completely different race, the Empire of Orion, which
was able to grow and gain great power. This empire had the aim of taking
over the galaxy, and were advancing all over conquering race upon planet.  A
great galactic war ensued which was basically the Orions and their henchman
vs. everybody else.  The "evergbody else" formed the first confederations
among different planetary races (and it was among these confederations, that
long ago plans for our Earth eventually being a great galactic library were
formed). Our Pleadians, however, with their heads in the sand, didn't even
know that there was a war going on all around them.
  So this me JW talking now. Did we loose you? Stay tuned for furture
developements (just like they say on the radio).
End Part 1.
John Winston.
ar systemwww
,xvxz
xRxTxTxVx9x;xxx(
x*
xcx[xh
xwxyx,<
0Roman 10cpiavel. However, this being early on in the development of our
galaxy, they were still rather primitive as far
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13427 alt.alien.visitors:12303 alt.religion.kibology:5583
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 13:08:27 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 99

1>+/00000
1Subject: Where We Came
From. Part 2.
  This is a continuration of the information from Kumar and Walter P.

Eventually the Pleiadians woke up to what was going on, and needless to say
were quite distressed.  They had surpressed the violent instincts within
their subconscius all the way from Lyra, and it wasn't until now they
proceeded to take action. Confronted everywhere with the conflict that they
abhored, they completely threw themselves into the fight against the advance
of the Orions, trying to defeat the Orions externally, although one could
say that in fact they were fighting against their own internal feelings.

The Orions didn't like this new enemy and fought back against the Pleiadians.
The turning point in the story was  when the Orions destroyed one of the
beautiful planets of life in the Pleiades. (This burned out lifeless planet
today still lies in the Pleiadian system as a reminder to them of their
past; although we shouldn't be too hard on them, after all in *our* solar
system we not only demolished but completely broke apart the planet that
used to lie between Mars and Jupiter, remaining as  reminder to us as the
asteroid belt.

The Pleiadians, having now awakened to their own denials, pretty much had two
choices as to how to proceed.  They could overcome their past  by learning
about the Orion system, their "enemy". Some actually chose to incarnate with
this group, although needless to say, once one got in, it was a much more
difficult task to obtain spiritual liberation, although those who were able
to do so would obtain a vast amount of knowledge and experience of how the
universe really works.

 The second route that the Pleiadians who stayed with their own solar system
took, is the one that conceterns we of Earth the most. Now the Orions'
imperial conquests were stopped by the combined effors of everyone else, and
peace was restored.  The defensive groups that had been formed evolved into
the Intergalactic Confederations and the Brotherhoods in existence today,
just as our own United Nations evolved out of the aftermath of World War II.
The Pleiadians were told that they would have to be in touch with a young
evolving civilization, until that growing civilization reached spiritual
maturity. It was in this way that the Pleiadians hoped to get in touch with
their own negativity, and truly achieve full maturity in their own right.
The civilization that the Pleiadians monitored was, of course, our Earth,
their earlier home.

These events were still thousands of years in the past, and they marked the
beginning of the Pleiadian involvement with our early Earth  civilization.
They landed among us in their ships and helped bring more order and
distribute wisdom to those barbaric times. This is why the  Pleiades appear
so often in ancient art and in the alignmnet of various structures of old
civilizations. However, as the Pleiadeans say, we have all at one time
abused power, in that it's all part of the full three dimensional
experience.  At this time, the Pleiadians were't completely free themselves
from the lure of power. Also, as  less evolved civilzations tend to do, we
of Earth began treating the Plieadians as gods, and some of them obliged,
taking pride in their lofty staus with us.

Meanwhile, it had been decided long ago that Earth would have a special role
in the galaxy, and was going to play the role of something like a great
galactic library where  all the races could share and store their wisdom.
(And some of the earlier fights over this "prime piece of real estate" can
explain how the Pleiadians are ahead of us even though they originally
emigrated from Earth.) Anyway, as we  of Earth began to evolve, the many,
many other already evolved races in the galaxy started taking an interest
in Earth, too, and started their own analysis and landings. The Pleiadian
"gods" didn't like  this intrusion, and for a while were even jealous of the
presense of the other systems.  The Pleiadians did come face to face with
their own negativity, although not in the way that they expecteed!

In the years that have passed since this last of many learning experiences for
the Pleiadians, they  (along with the Lyrians and many of the other races
have evolved well beyond that stage of wars or abusing power. The Pleadians
are a relatively advanced race and have even helped out their old ancestors,
the Lyrains, with certain things. They are still evolving themselves - they
have  admitted that to us although as we of Earth mature, our Pleiadian
siblings are taking an increasingly active involvement with us. The
Intergalactic Confederations from long ago have since perfectly evolved into
part of the Great White Brotherhoood, the Ashtar Command. (Note that other
alien races have played and will be playing major roles in our past and
future); for example the Zeta Reticulans  have an important (positive) place
in our future. One goal of these great Confederations, of which the
Pleiadians are a member, is to help protect us (although still maintaining
the policty of non-interference) from some of the less mature alien races
that are still out there (although today such races are rather rare) until
we can develpe to a point where we can protect ourselves. And unless we
destroy ouselves first, there will come a point where we can talk to our
aliens directly, and become a member of the Confederations ourselves. That
time may not be as far away as we  think.
This is me JW talking now. You know I have a feeling it's going to all work
out and everybody is going to come out smelling like a rose.
The End.
John Winston.
rions' imperial conquests were stopped by the combined effors of everyone
else, and peace was restored.  The defensive grow

xwxy
xFxHxQ
xS
xlxwxx<
0Roman 10cpiilization, until that growing civilization reached spiritual
maturity. It was in this way that the Pleiadians
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13428 alt.alien.visitors:12304 alt.religion.kibology:5584
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 13:14:28 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: Now to answer a question. It was asked how we compare in
IQ to the space people. If you consider a human to be very smart with
an IQ of 150 then the Greys from Z. R. have a 300 IQ. People from
Venus are 5,000 years ahead of us an in the 4th dimension, because we
destroyed our civilization about 5,000 years ago. Some people from
Saturn and Jupiter would seem god like to us. Jupiter is where Adam
came from of the the Adamic race. So how about them apples?
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13429 alt.alien.visitors:12305 sci.skeptic:36514
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!uotcsi2!revcan!cerianthus!uuisis!testsys!doug
From: [e-mail] (Doug Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 00:00:19 EST
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: DistNet Technical Support
Lines: 79

In article <[e-mail]>  [e-mail] writes:

> Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the last person who was writing me
> was not Satan. Satan has not written me lately. He is from the UK. My last
> posting about the Bolivian Encounter sort of cut off towards the end. Sorry
> about that. It hard to get good help nowadays.
> John Winston. If my flamers would let me I would like to say thanks to Betty
> and Robert, but then I had better not say that so I won't.

I would like to propose the creation of two new newsgroups.  One would
be called "july.4.1992.global.spiritual.independence.day" since, by my
count, this is the single most common subject line in usenet in the
past six months.  In another few months it will have to be renamed to
"july.4.1992.global.spiritual.independence.year".

The other would be john.winston.humor.funny since by my subjective
analysis, John_-_Winston's posts achieve the highest laugh-per-word
(or giggle per characer) impact on the net.  Ya know, I was
considering just terminating my usenet feed recently, but I couldn't
bear to be without that daily jolt of off-the-wall humour and the news
flashes about when John goes away for a couple of days and when he
comes back and the free reprints from tabloid rags!

So maybe we really need a third new newsgroup: john.winston.itinerary
so that everyone will know where he is, when he is, and when he's
back.

It'll read like:

Monday:    desert (any one will do)
Tuesday:   Mt. Shasta (any one of these will likely do too)
Wednesday: Bolivia (is there more than one?  You guessed it, there are 52!)
Thursday:  Mars (by train, via steamship to Venus)
Friday:    Supermarket reading tabloids (and just *how* many are there??)
Saturday:  Sun (don't ask)
Sunday:    [a day of rest, to be announced to the world on the net, of
course. On a bad week, there will be four copies of the announcement.
On a good week, there will be only one, but it will be indeipherable]

Of course, John may well be using the Roman 8 day week instead of the
barbarian 7 day week in which case the Internet is in *DEEP* *DEEP*
*DOODOO*!  Everyone who is responsible for calendar code had better
hurry to prepare modifications to handle the 8 day week because if
John is working on that cycle (and my hunch is that he is) his
influence is bound to alter the "consensual week" to 8 days from seven
sometime real soon now.  It'll happen when the moon is in the seventh
house and Jupiter aligns with Mars and John's next trip to the Sun.

=Doug

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Caveat: this isn't me.  I posted this in a past life or two, not as
you think - assuming you think - which assumption is disproved by the
fact that you are reading this newsgroup - which also proves, beyond a
reasonable moon-shadow of a Ufologists doubt that I don't exist except
in your over-active imagination (or third eye chakra, whichever comes
first) which will undoubtedly result in twins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Acknowledgements:  Who could even think about Usenet in 1993 without a
reference to the enormous debt owed by the net to John_-_Winston who,
in case anyone was wondering, is not really an ordinary human at all,
but rather is an angel.  I know this is a secret which wasn't s'posed
to get out, but the devil made me do it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: just in case anyone should think this is my opinion, or
something absurd like that, I feel that it is incumbent upon me to
warn you that danger increases with amount smoked!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Disclaimer: this is an experiment in artificial intelligence.
These opinions belong to my CPU and are not shared by my brain or my
employer or anyone/thing else for that matter.  In fact these are not
opinions, these are ASCII int4erf8er*ence pat&te#rns created by John
and indicate a stack overflow which is about to become a core dump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---

uuisis!testsys!doug
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5585 alt.alien.visitors:12306
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news.itd.umich.edu!ajd
From: [e-mail] (Arthur Delano)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Collective, dispassionate aliens
Date: 4 Jan 1993 23:56:59 GMT
Organization: finchhaus
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: helen.oit.itd.umich.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rob Dobson) writes:
>Why is this? Is it because Americans like to affirm themselves as being
>different and individualistic? Is it because we (as a society) wish that
>we were more collectivistic? Or is it because this collectivism is
>very frightening to our individualistic mentalities?
>
>How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish,
>and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america?

tribbles.

think
about
it.

AjD
appeasing
the
line
counter
--
                       [e-mail]
"You'll never find happiness as a human being, kid." -- Suehiro Maruo
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:41:28 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> greg@katie (Greg Wells) writes:
>:
>Agreed.  I am interested in science. Not bullshit.

  Then why are you reading "alt.alien.visitors"?

  Try "sci.space" or "sci.astronomy".

  You want Alien Visitors, yer gonna GET bullshit!


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!actcnews!sun1x!scottb
From: [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn)
Subject: Re: NASA antigravity patent
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:12:45 GMT
Lines: 7

If such a patent/device exists, post all relative info here.
I, for one, would like to hear more about this.
--
Disclaimer:  I didn't do it!  Nobody saw me do it!  You can't prove anything!
             My opinions are my own.   They do not reflect anyone/thing else!
\/       preferred        \/
[e-mail]            |           [e-mail]
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34951 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2701 sci.skeptic:36529 alt.paranormal:6261 alt.alien.visitors:12309
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,alt.comspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: POP! FIZZZZ... Einstein's Dreams
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:17:54 GMT
Lines: 29


POP! FIZZ....REVIEW
Jack Sarfatti
Editor
Vol.1 No.1 1993
#1 Einstein's Dreams by Alan Lightman from NY TIMES Book Review, Jan 3,
1993(quotes written by Dennis Overbye):
"In one dream, a woman is swept back into the past  ... huddles in a
doorway trying not to kick up dust that could alter history."
She need not have been so careful. It does not matter what she does. The
universe will be what it will be when she leaves it in future partly
because she did whatever she did in the past. It's a big globally self-
consistent loop in time.

"... time moves in a circle  ... some unhappy people, sensing they are
doomed to endless repetitions of their mistakes, fill the night with their
moans>"

It's Dante's Inferno!

"... cause and effect become disjointed: a woman's heart leaps and week
later she meets a suitor>"

How romantic! Isn't it great that retarded causality is violated in what
John Lilly calls "cosmic coincidence control".

"In the acausal world, he gushes, 'each kiss is a kiss of immediacy.'"

Play it again Sam!
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34952 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2702 sci.skeptic:36531 alt.alien.visitors:12310 alt.paranormal:6262
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: re: Carlip's comments on The Force that is not a force.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:13:42 GMT
Lines: 135


John Archibald Wheeler taught us:
Mass without mass.
Charge without charge.
It from bit.

I add the quantum connection which is
Force without force.
as well as
Cause without cause.
Physics without physics.
Sense without sense.

*Sarfatti comments* on:
General comment. Steve did not read what I wrote very carefully. He hits me
with a lot of very good and hard questions that no one knows the answers to
regarding quantum gravity. But that is irrelevant to my very modest claim
that the quantum gravity cut off for quantum electrodynamics in a classical
metric makes quantum electrodynamics divergence-free i nthe ultra-violet
limit (not infra-red).

From: [e-mail] (Steve Carlip)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-
theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,
alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: The New Physics of "The Force" of "Star Wars".
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:46:17 GMT
Followup-To: sci.physics
Organization: Physics, UC Davis

I'm probably going to regret this follow-up, but there's enough almost-
physics here that I can't resist...

*I've got you under my spell!"*

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack
Sarfatti) writes:
>1. Looking at Feynman's classic 1949 papers on quantum electrodynamics
>(QED) from the 1992 perspective of quantum gravity suggests that the
>"ultra-violet catastrophe" is easily avoided by using the Planck length
>(i.e. 10^-5 grams = 10^-33 cm etc.) as the high-momentum/short wavelength
>cut-off.

Easily?  Then you should by all means publish your results.

*I plan to when I'm finished. Is there any law against using this new
medium for brain-storming, refining half-baked ideas. Why do you want to
crush free inquiry. This is not the Physical Review!  What would have
happened to Feynman if Wheeler tried to crush him at the beginning? I feel
sorry for your research students if you have any!*

The speculation that Planck length effects cut off divergences in quantum
field theory has been around for years, and a lot of interesting work has
been done, but no one has yet managed to find a way to consistently
implement such a cutoff.

*Why not? Please amplify on this. What do you mean by "consistently"?*

Do you have a way to preserve approximate Lorentz invariance at low
energies?

*Do you mean that if we violate Lorentz invariance at a scale of 10^-33 cm
in one frame that there will be another frame in which this violation shows
up on a larger scale? I thought the length contracts not expands. Where are
you coming from. Please explain the problem here.*

Do you know how to avoid the divergences of quantum gravity itself?

*Do you? Does anyone? I have an idea though, that the problem is in the
technical constraint of causality - which does break down in quantum
gravity.  How about a review of the intrinsic divergence of quantum
gravity. What causes it?

I never claimed to solve the divergence of quantum gravity. I only claim
that the QED of Feynman et-al has no divergence (for classical gravity) if
we stick in the cut-off for QED at the Planck scale and start with zero
bare mass and zero bare charge for all particle fields.*

Is your cutoff at exactly the Planck length (no extra factors of two or
pi)?  Why?

*Good question. The self-consistency condition should be that the bare
mass, charge etc. are exactly zero (not infinite) and all observed mass and
charge is self-created out of the virtual fluctuations of the vacuum
starting at the Planck scale. The factors of 2 etc. are determined by this
self-consistency.

What variables are you applying this cutoff to?  In general relativity,
you can't just Fourier transform between position and momentum space, so a
momentum cutoff is not necessarily equivalent to a length cutoff.

*My remarks were only for quantum electrodynamics in flat-spacetime! The
vacuum fluctuations in flat spacetime would still cut off at the Planck
length. In curved space-time we will need some new "wavelet" sort of
variables that reduce to momentum and position for flat limit.

How do you deal with overlapping loops in Feynman diagrams?  Etc... The
idea that quantum gravity cuts off divergences is a very nice one, and I
hope it's true, but we're going to have to know a hell of a lot more than
we do now before this becomes more than an interesting conjecture.

*Agreed, but you are attributing to me more than I intended. The key idea
is that in flat QED the bare stuff is zero etc.*

>QED is "semi-classical" in that the spacetime metric is classical only the
>photon and electron fields are quantized.  The metric quantum fluctuates
so>strongly at the cut-off that Lorentz symmetry breaks down. There is no
>smoothness, no differentiability there.  The geometry of quantum gravity
is >fractal! Note that in semiclassical QED the worldlines of photons and
>electrons are fractal but the metric is not.

If the metric is nontrivial, Lorentz invariance breaks down independent of
how strong the fluctuations are.

*NO! You are wrong there. You violate the equivalence principle that GR is
locally flat (smooth, differentiable, etc.) when quantum metric
fluctuations are small.*

And if by "the worldlines of photons and electron" you mean "the paths that
contribute to the functional integral," then you're not quite right here --
- in quantum mechanics, nowhere-smooth paths dominate, but in quantum field
theory, the dominant configurations are not even continuous (nothing so
neat as a "fractal").As for quantum gravity, no one knows what the geometry
is like, or even whether geometry makes sense at the Planck scale.  Again,
if you have some real evidence for "fractal geometry," please publish!

*Lenny Susskind and others have published that the particle world lines
have a fractal dimension. A Frenchman has published similar stuff on
metric. I do not have references handy.*

>[much more deleted]

Steve Carlip
[e-mail]

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsk!cbnewsj!att-out!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: KIBOF
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:41:51 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Victor Volkman) writes:
> -> By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
> -> James_-_Kibo_-_Parry
>
> So who cares?
>
i'm on vacationf and i can't postf either, and whof cares. I
know 'cause i know whof, and whof cares.
i normally don't postf to this groupf anymore now that Gary
got taken to heavenf.

Xref: icaen sci.physics:34956 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2703 alt.conspiracy:21429 sci.skeptic:36541 alt.paranormal:6263 alt.alien.visitors:12312
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:46:42 GMT
Lines: 35


POP! FIZZ....REVIEW
Jack Sarfatti
Editor
Vol.1 No.2 1993
#2 PSI WARS!
from WALL STREET JOURNAL, Jan 4, 1993

Quotes are from Nonlethal Arms written by Thomas E. Ricks, front page.
"... a new electromagnetic 'pulse' generator that disables equipment
without hurting people."

Better than the neutron bomb which did just the opposite.

"...'combustion inhibitors' that stop the engines of movint vehicles, as
well as chemicals that crystallize and destroy certain kinds of tires ...
information-age wars in which the emphasis is on paralysing the adversary,
not necessarily destroying him. .... John Alexander began thinking about
them ... in 1980 he published an article in Miltary Review ... about 'the
new mental battlefield,' which he said could involve telepathy or weapons
that interfered with the brain's owm electrical activity .... 'soft-
kill'... In 1988, Col. Alexander ... joined Los Alamos National Laboratory,
where he is attached to the special technologies group ...   his interest
in parapsychology led him to collaborate ... with Janet Morris  ... She
enlisted Ray Cline, a well-connected former deputy director of the Central
Intelligence Agency, who was able to open doors at the White House and the
Pentagon . ....The Pentagon ... cut out Janet Morris and Ray Cline, who
were perceived as meddlesome and uncontrollable ....

Infrasound: Very low frequency sound ... causing disorientation, nausea,
vomiting or bowel spasms ...

Computer virus technology ... focuses on computer systems which control
fire support systems, data transmission .... .... worm which may remain
hidden until the system is used..."
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34959 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2705 alt.conspiracy:21431 sci.skeptic:36544 alt.paranormal:6264 alt.alien.visitors:12313
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817
From: [e-mail] (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS!
Date: 5 Jan 1993 09:45:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I saw the Wall Street Journal article also. What I thought was of
particular interest was the part about science fiction writer Janet
Morris and "retired" CIA covert ops specialist Ray Clines (an associate
of Theodore Shackley for those familiar with THAT name) collaborating
on a book about the military applications of mind technology. Do you
Jack, or does anybody else here have any further info on what this
"odd couple" has been up to?

-Steve Crocker
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA antigravity patent
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Jon Clarke)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 20:48:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.
Lines: 15

[e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn) writes:

> If such a patent/device exists, post all relative info here.
> I, for one, would like to hear more about this.

 Ditto.  I remember a few patents on ion floaters ie high voltage
 and ozone etc.. But these are not true anti-gravity devices.


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  [e-mail]           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: [phone]       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news!nosc!crash!jvarley
From: [e-mail] (J.J. Varley)
Subject: Video Game - Majestic Twelve
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 04 Jan 93 23:22:52 PST
Message-ID: <1993Jan04.232253.8539@crash>
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

    A couple days ago I was in an arcade, and I saw a game called
"Majestic Twelve." Interesting I thought, taking a title from a
government group I read in UFO literature.  Pretty much a re-hash of
"Space Invaders" but it caught my interest.  One more thing,
the outside of the machine had many drawings of a UFO type thing
lifting up cows by some sort of beam.  Just a video game, but
someone at TAITO (who made the game) must have a hint as to
whats going on...


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!nsmca
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: NASA antigravity patent+
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 11:14:32 GMT

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Clarke) writes:
> [e-mail] (TheLrdLovsAHngn) writes:
>
>> If such a patent/device exists, post all relative info here.
>> I, for one, would like to hear more about this.
>
>  Ditto.  I remember a few patents on ion floaters ie high voltage
>  and ozone etc.. But these are not true anti-gravity devices.
>
>
>  Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
>  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>   [e-mail]           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
>   Phone: [phone]       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>      "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988

Interesting.. Ozone field.. Interesting..

Rubber Write Protect Tab??

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth [e-mail]

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!n08dp
From: [e-mail] (I.A. Inman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Winston - Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:41:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: tuda
Originator: n08dp@tuda


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem) writes:
>
> Sad but true: this really has to a moderated group.  It reminds me
> of gradeschool, where a teacher would give the kids quite a bit of
> rope until the "bad apples" hung the rest of the class.
>
> There seems to be quite a group of people ready to jump ship (me
> among them).  Maybe we should just go find our own sandbox to play
> in.
> --

Just a small point, but is it or is it not true that the newsnet is pure anarchy
anyway?
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!enterpoop.mit.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!nntpsrv
From: [e-mail] (Lee Van Dyke)
Subject: San Diego News shows a video of UFO
Nntp-Posting-Host: balboa.eng.uci.edu
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 18
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:34:19 GMT

Hi, Last night, 1/4/93 the San Diego ABC local news (10)
showed a homemade video of an unmistakable UFO. It was
a round ball of light that had a smaller ball of light
circling around it's middle in a horizontal fashion.

Several UFO-ologists have descended on the area, according
to the newscast.

I did not get the name of the mountain range or the man
video taping it though, any one get it?


Lee

--
Lee Van Dyke
      [e-mail],
UUCP: infotec!Infotec.COM![e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: i have a question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 08:26:32 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References:  <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: I should have stated that the man was one armed (he had one
arm missing) in my last postings. The planet Venus is a very hot place
and not hospitable to humans in the third dimension, but in the 4th
dimension it is quite a nice place. Humans can visit there is their
astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar structure
so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week conditioning
period.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 08:16:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you
think you need a moderator.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Everyone Listen-up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 07:55:32 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Folks: Let's agree to disagree.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Why I put physics here.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 08:46:36 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: This all reminds me of the old song words that say, Why is
everybody always picking on me.
John Winston
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 08:54:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Sir or Whatever: I would be interested in some of those Ozzie,
Assie, Australian UFO reports.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12324 alt.conspiracy:21441 alt.paranormal:6265
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Sarfatti's Father
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 09:06:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear New Person: In my humble opinion there is a lot of truth in
what you say. I believe you will find that some people will not
appreciate you telling them what you consider to be the truth and
will use every means at their disposal to stop you from saying it.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!avon!clcv16
From: [e-mail] ("a.w.veitch", Thermodynamics Clcv16)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Evidence for advanced causation.
Keywords: Gobbledygook or Bullshit?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:08:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News account )
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Strathclyde University Computer Centre.
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: avon


.....Hi there spunkheads. Ya got a virgin user here.....just call me Al.
   Who is this Jack Sarfatti?  A great new mind loose in the world?
   Well loose anyway!
   You seem to have read quite a bit and understood less.
   Q: What are the implications of Bells theorem to the Wheeler-Feynman
     "classical" EM model?
   Q: Do you have to have faith in precog to perceive them.
     This smacks of Kant!
   Platonic Realities or just proprioceptive ratiocinalised bullshit!
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!victor.volkman
From: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: BIGFOOTF SPACEMAN?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jan 93 07:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)
Lines: 30

[e-mail]
-> Newsgroups:
-> talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
-> Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman?
-> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

-> Dear Folks: Now to answer a question. It was asked how we compare in
-> IQ to the space people. If you consider a human to be very smart with
-> an IQ of 150 then the Greys from Z. R. have a 300 IQ. People from
-> Venus are 5,000 years ahead of us an in the 4th dimension, because we
-> destroyed our civilization about 5,000 years ago. Some people from
-> Saturn and Jupiter would seem god like to us. Jupiter is where Adam
-> came from of the the Adamic race. So how about them apples?
-> John Winston.

There is no such thing as a standard IQ test, there are several (such as
Standford-Binet, California Mental Maturity Test) each has a different
standard deviation.  For example, an IQ of 120 on a test with a standard
deviation of 10 would be the same as an IQ of 140 on a test with a
standard deviation of 20.  I'm sorry, but there are no IQ absolutes.

Even worse, you cannot "live" on Jupiter because there is no place to
"stand".  It is not solid, it is gaseous.  Not to mention gravity and
radiation are almost 100 times earth normal.

----
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
| Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13431 alt.alien.visitors:12327 alt.religion.kibology:5596
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Greys Speak Their Mind.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 10:26:48 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 57

Subject: The Greys Say A Few Things.
  I have been asked to put down some of the information that comes from the
Greys. Boy is this information dull or what?

The ability of the human sciological spectrum  to conceptualize the existence
of the phenomena (UFO) and its resultant effect upon the cultural
advancement of human civilization will be hade  manifest within a
measureable amount of time/space continuum. In accordance with the eventual
purpose of the "Network" consensus, there is ample communicative infomuation
in program to maintain "Network" direct observance (physical contact) in
support of mutual contact involvement. There can be free exchanges of
information absolutely designed to enhance the occurrence of "Network"
contact and ongoing definite relative fundamental multitudinous act of
on\going direct observance (close encounter) experiments.  The data
assimilated regarding the experiments is continually examined by the
"Network" analysis, and the full findings distributed within the "Network"
operations.
  The individual amount of examined data can be verified and classified within
the "Network" Space Center, and is injected for the "Network: eldership, the
available data is implemented within the progressional direct observance
procedures. There can be no partial utilization of the assimilated data.
The subject involved is then inculcated with the desired data which is given
in either active or full dormant status (unconscious).
  There must be intense precautions taken to insure there is no actual
resultant vitiation rearding the "Network" subject. The ability of the
"Network" to enunciate the inculcated program to  maintain the continual
duality of purpose concerning ht econtacts is accomplished through an intact
inculcated monitor.  The transmittal of "Network" linguistical symbols is
due inpart to anable the subject to communicate via random transmittal data
which will contribute to the understanding and enhancement of the meaning
of the "Metwork" and the populace of human civilization.  The progressive
contacts between the "Network" and selected "Network" subjects will
continue. A plot of gegoraphical areas involved in direct observance
activities is currently undergong in in-depth equational analysis.  The
purpose and selection will then be considered according to the consensus of
the "Network" eldership.  The contact is then initiated.
  Data is then integrated into a "Network" lexicon and the imiplication
involving the subject are determined. Calculations are then transimitted
thoughout the "Network".  The "Network" communications with plantetary
intergalactic  prevalent existent lifeforms is based upon universal and
interuniversal comity.  Recognition of interuniversal principles and
oraganizational thought is directed primarily towards preservation of the
evolutionary spectrum entire and the advancement of human civilizations.
Interferrance into the entire direction of the planetary scale of the
selected planet is prohibited... The Pleiadian races have agreed, as have
the Council of Dorado and Horologium Assembly.  The Eldership and other
quadriuniversal representatives are in full and complete agreement with all
tenets of interuniversal comity. The forthcoming observance of "Network"
vehicles will be manifest.  The "Network" has monitored the progress of
inculcated data and resultant documentation. The utilization of laser light
amplification devices to initaiate activity with the resultant intention to
videotape "Network" vehicles is considered an allowable activity and will be
permitted upon affirmation that the videotape use is guarded and restricted.
End of message.
Source of Information: Kumar and Walter T.
This is me JW speaking now. Sounds like a Grey College Professor to me.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 5 Jan 1993 13:27:48 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:
>
>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you
>think you need a moderator.
>John Winston.
This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap.  You must
understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right.
When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post,
you are wrong.  If you would like to go out on the streets and preach
to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right.  But you
must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly.
And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one.
You John Winston are under no obligation to partake in the discussions there
and can freely post here(although it is not a right).
Ethan Haslett
smoke... smoke.. flame off
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!hyperion!desire.wright.edu!ehughes
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: CLINTON'S INTERNET ACCOUNT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Jan 93 13:49:29 EST
Organization:  Wright State University
Lines: 65

X-NEWS: desire alt.education.disabled: 171
Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.0-3 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site desire.wright.edu
Path: desire.wright.edu!uoft02.utoledo.edu!malgudi.oar.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu!sci.ccny.cuny.edu!sci.ccny.cuny.edu!patth
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
Subject: Electronic Access to the President
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Patt Bromberger)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:52:43 GMT
Reply-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap
Sender: [e-mail] (Patt Bromberger)
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap
Distribution: usa
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Lines: 48

Reposted from alt.activism
From: [e-mail] (Jack Krueger)
Subject: If you didn't see this.(President-elect)
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:31:52 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

THOUGHT YOU MAY LIKE TO HAVE PRESIDENT ELECT CLINTON'S E-MAIL ADRESS

 From: [e-mail] (Clinton/Gore '92)
 Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
 Date: 19 Dec 1992 21:06:37 -0500
 Newsgroups: alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.activism
 Subject: CLINTON: Season's Greetings & Best Wishes for a Happy New Year

 Season's Greetings and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!

 Thank you for your messages to the Office of the President-elect.
 This mailbox will be unattended from December 22, 1992 until January 4th,
 1993.  Please try again after January 4th.  If you prefer, you may send
 hardcopy messages to the address below:

    The U. S. Mail address for the Clinton/Gore Transition Team is:

         Office of the President-Elect
         Atkins Building
         105 West Capital Street,  Suite 400
         Little Rock,  Arkansas   72201

         Telephone: [phone]


 Regards,
 Jock Gill
 Public Access Email
 Office of the President-Elect
 [e-mail]
|
|
|
 Distribution:
   Clinton Volunteers >internet:[e-mail]
   Clinton News >internet:[e-mail]
   Clinton Economy >internet:[e-mail]
   Clinton Foreign >internet:[e-mail]


--
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      [e-mail]
                               or    [e-mail]
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!botgc
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 5 Jan 1993 12:35:20 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Newsletter
Lines: 14

I am still getting questions about the newsletter I publish, and it seems
my previuos messages are being buried among the tons of others on this
conference.
Ok. Here goes again...The newsletter is called "The Nefilim Forum". It is
meant to be an interactive newsletter, so that we publish the letters of
our subscribers, brainstorming problems relating influence of extraterrestrials
on human civilizations. It is very influenced by Z. Sitchin's books and
in fact he has subscribed himself in December. We are also having other
scientists from all areas subscribing. Things are picking up, subscribers
start to realize at last how things work in terms of interaction with the
otheres. If interested, leave me a note.

Regards,
Vladislav
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13432 alt.alien.visitors:12331 sci.skeptic:36562
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!psci15.polisci.umn.edu!serb
From: [e-mail] (Scott Erb)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: psci15.polisci.umn.edu
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:32:56 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Thompson) writes:

>Acknowledgements:  Who could even think about Usenet in 1993 without a
>reference to the enormous debt owed by the net to John_-_Winston who,
>in case anyone was wondering, is not really an ordinary human at all,
>but rather is an angel.  I know this is a secret which wasn't s'posed
>to get out, but the devil made me do it.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

I was watching an old Star Trek show last night, and the actor playing Lt.
Kyle was named John Winston.  Could Star Trek be real and Winston from the
future?
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!fort
From: [e-mail] (Bomber)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: PRINTER
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:08:40 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS User)
Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS]
Lines: 8

STAR NX1000 PRINTER 5 FONTS PAPER PARK EXCELLENT CONDITION WHAT OFFERS OR
TRADE FOR ????? VOICE LINE 275-8053 JOHNNY


---
[e-mail] (Bomber)
The Draco Unix System [BBS]

Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13434 alt.alien.visitors:12333 sci.skeptic:36570
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Alien Past.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 14:32:55 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 65

Subject: Have You Lived On An Other Planet Before?
  I see in the news lately that a few researchers now believe that as many as
90 million Americans have lived on other planets in previous lives and many
of the rest of the world have also done the same thing.
  Researcher working independently of each other hve come to the same
mind-boggling conclusion that a great number of Americans are transplanted
space aliens.
  People who were hypnotically regressed by different experts told remarkbly
similar stories about their past lives in other worlds-ruling out the
possiblility of coincidenece.
  "The correlations are astronishing and they must not be ignored=they are
real," said Brad Steiger, a top investigator of the paranormal.
  In his massive five - year study of more than 6,000 people who uncovered
their past lives while under hyponosis, one-fifth described earlier
existences on other planets, Steiger said.
  Many were able to recall landing on Earth, he said.
 Amazingly similar findings were reported by three other leading past life
researchers, Dr. Edith Fiore, Frederick Lenz, and Dr. R. Leo Sprinkle, who
have each done hundreds of regrerssions.
 The data I have gathered matches that of other researchers so exactly that it
connot be an accident. It all points to past lives elsewhere in our
universe, said Fiore.
  Sprinkle found significant past-life expereinces in which people report
having lived on other planets.
 "The cases I have compiled are similar to the overall pattern of these other
resaearchers, The data rules out the possiblity of chance," Sprinkle said.
After analyzing his hypnotically regressed subjects, Steiger found those who
said they lived before on other planets fell into three types;
  Refugee aliens. These people said that in an earlier life they had fled
their home planets because of catastrophic wars or natural disasters and had
traveled millions of miles to Earth. Others said their space vehicles had
crash-landed here and were forced to remain on this planet.
  These refugees were quite like us - simillar to us physically but slightly
more advanced than mankind is today, Steiger said.
  Dome-headed Utopians. Most fo the people claiming past lives on other
planets fell into this catagory. They described living on a planet with a
red sky and two moons shining at night.
  "Some of their cities were dome enclosed, others were not," Steiger said.
"Their buildings were crystal or some material that gave a crystalline
effect."
  These people were called "Utopians," Steiger said, because they came from
planets free of crime and hunger, and where all their needs were met.
"Physically, they described them selves as slender, even small, with
big-domed heads,long golden hair and eyelashes, no beards and no mustaches
and little body hair.  Their skin was golden-brown and their eyes amber,
tawny or golden.
 "The Utopians came to Earth to help us," he said. "They recieved assignments
to come to Earth in a sort of missionary or teaching role."
  Disembodied beings or "beings of light." This strange group, Steiger said,
consisted of entities that seemed to exist without needing food or shelter.
A small number of people reported past lives as blobs of high intelligence,
floating over barren, rocky, arid planets with no obvious habitation or
vegetation," Steiger said.  "Sometimes they described themselves as just
glowing light, but most of the time they were totally invisible," he added.
  Fiore said she's had a number of patients who have past-life memories on
other planets, and their information closely matches that of Steiger's
subjects.
  Several hundred of the 1,000 people interviewed by Lenz have described life
on other planets.
   "I agree with the estimate of one in five people having lived a past life
in an alien world beyond Earth," he said.
  This is me JW talking now. Lo and behold could this possibuly be true. Oh
me, oh my, what is this world coming to?
Source of Information: Weekly World News, January 19, 1993 page 21.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford.winona.msus.edu!user
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (John Stafford)
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:29:11 -0600
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS
Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu
Lines: 22

To answer my own question:

Portal Communications Company (PORTAL-DOM)
   20863 Stevens Creek Boulevard
   Suite 200
   Cupertino, CA  95014

   Domain Name: PORTAL.COM

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Little, John  (JL115)  [e-mail]
      [phone]

   Record last updated on 30-Dec-92.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   NOVA.UNIX.PORTAL.COM         192.83.245.2
   UUCP-GW-1.PA.DEC.COM         16.1.0.18
   UUCP-GW-2.PA.DEC.COM         16.1.0.19

YEA, but what do they _do_?
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!avatar!sorgatz
From: [e-mail] (sorgatz)
Subject: Re: i have a question (SO DO I !!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
References: <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:51:03 GMT
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Folks: I should have stated that the man was one armed (he had one
>arm missing) in my last postings. The planet Venus is a very hot place
>and not hospitable to humans in the third dimension, but in the 4th
>dimension it is quite a nice place. Humans can visit there is their
>astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar structure
>so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week conditioning
>period.
>John Winston.

 Aw Jeez...Winston...do you make this stuff up as you go or do you have a
script writer run it up for you?? Just how, exactly, do you know this? I
can't imagine a means (enclosures aside) of getting human life to survive
the environment of Venus. 600+ degrees, poisonous atmosphere...c'mon..get
real! "The Space People"...you sound as silly as George Adamski. Where's
your proof? Got *anything* to back this twaddle up?




-Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY           +-------------------------+
TTI([e-mail])                       *   Think Eco, not EGO!   *
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA  90405     +-------------------------+
(OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR ITS MANAGEMENT!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3
From: [e-mail] (kevin fisher U)
Subject: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: any info??
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:48:32 GMT
Lines: 16

Can anyone out there provide me with info on the idea I've heard floating
around that Einstein actually finished his unified field theory (but, of
course, it was covered up by the gov't and is being used in secret UFO
experiments or something)??


Not that any of it is believeable, but I'm just wondering where the idea
originated from.
Any info/discussion would be appreciated...


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fisher  ><>     |  "Thank you.  You can't believe everything you
[e-mail]   |  see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP'
________________________________________________________________________________
Xref: icaen sci.physics:34984 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2707 alt.conspiracy:21459 sci.skeptic:36573 alt.paranormal:6267 alt.alien.visitors:12337
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!froh
From: [e-mail] (Robert Frohwerk)
Subject: Re: POP! FIZZZ.... PSI WARS!
Sender: [e-mail] (News Server Project)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:11:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Lines: 30

Jack Sarfatti ([e-mail]) wrote:
:
: Infrasound: Very low frequency sound ... causing disorientation, nausea,
: vomiting or bowel spasms ...
:

I recall something I read in the mid '60s in a Sunday newspaper supplement.
At the time I was skeptical, so I did some study and found even more.

Background:
The brain has functions that operate at alpha and beta frequencies.
I believe these are 4-6Hz and 10-15Hz, respectively.  One of those
(beta, I think) has to do with the time delay between reception of
images at the eyeball and recognition(?) at the brain.

The _Weapon_:
In Viet Nam, US troops were reportedly using helicopter mounted strobe
lamps operating at those (beta) frequencies to disable enemy soldiers,
who could then be rounded up without resistance.  (Our guys wore special
glasses or something.)  We know something of this effect from experience
in discos, but apparently it can lead beyond disorientation to the other
effects mentioned as well, if prolonged.  All's fair in Love and War. :-)

Some Nam vets should be able to confirm, deny, or disavow knowledge of this.
(I was draft lottery #366, but nearly got called anyway.)

[I really wish this follow-up wasn't going to go to 6 newsgroups!
I'm reading it at alt.conspiracy.]

==Bob
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!eye!kevin
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Stokker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: i have a question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 22:03:07 GMT
Distribution: alt
References: <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate> <[e-mail]>
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>... Humans can visit there is their
>astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar structure
>so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week conditioning
>period.
>John Winston.

Dear John,

Can you please clarify this for me?  Who needs the two week conditioning,
astral-form humans, or regular humans?  After regular humans receive the two
week conditioning from the space people, are they then in astral form?

Thanks,
Kevin
Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:5605 alt.alien.visitors:12339
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!uotcsi2!revcan!geovision!news
From: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Subject: Re: Collective, dispassionate aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:29:27 GMT
Lines: 20

[e-mail] (Rob Dobson) writes:
>How come we see so few alien races that are more wasteful, more selfish,
>and less able to accomplish anything than modern beaurocratic america?
>are drugs legal on alien worlds? why am i ranting like this instead
>of working?

Serious answer: Because if they were _not_ more efficient, less wasteful,
less selfish than modern beaurocratic(sp?) america, that they probably
wouldn't be traveling in space.  Instead, they probably would have reached
the nearest planet/satellite to prove that they were better than their
rivals on the other side of the planet, then abandoned any further manned
exploration of space for a bunch of political porkbarrels and low
orbit satellite pick up and delivery.

Alt.religion.kibology answer: Because you need to have the kibo nature to
travel in space.  Otherwise, you're not allowed.

--
I'm the News Administrator at this site, and you're not!
I just administer the news, I don't make or state policy.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse
From: [e-mail] (Robert K. Rouse)
Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:10:58 GMT
Lines: 25

There is a theory that the Germans developed a flying saucer
craft before the end of WWII.  Vladimir Terziski makes a
pretty good case for this in his lectures at UFO EXPO events.
His lectures are mind blowers.  He as pictures of UFOs with
tank turrets attached.  He even has a documentry film (in
German) about the ships.

Also, if you like fiction, the book: "Projekt Saucer - Inception"
by W.A. Harbinson is about their development.  I really liked
the book because of the insight into the Nazi mind.

There is no need for a Unified Field Theory to build a flying
saucer they could be powered by air-breathing engines or they
could use an effect of anti-gravity that is not understood
theoretically.
--
============================================================
  "No creature that is intelligent and with the right
   values is an alien to me."
                        John Salter
============================================================
    Robert K. Rouse        [e-mail]
============================================================


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!machine!timesink!mikebo
From: [e-mail] (Michael Borowiec)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:02:10 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:
>>
>>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
>>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you
>>think you need a moderator.
>>John Winston.
>This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap.  You must
>understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right.
>When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post,
>you are wrong.  If you would like to go out on the streets and preach
>to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right.  But you
>must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly.
>And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one.
>You John Winston are under no obligation to partake in the discussions there
>and can freely post here(although it is not a right).
>Ethan Haslett
>smoke... smoke.. flame off

Oh man... what a load of horseshit! This is anarchy if ever I saw it.
A privilege is granted. Who exactly granted anyone the "privilege" of
posting to Usenet. More to the point, just how the hell is anyone going
to prevent Mr. Winston from posting? There is no controlling body for
the Usenet. Anyone can post anything they want and nobody can do
diddely squat about it.

The most effective weapon against idiots is to ignore them. They
always go away. If you can't wait that long, just filter his posts.
I rather enjoy them myself... so BWAAAAHAHAHAHA. (-8
- Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Borowiec  (N9EUZ)  -  [e-mail]  -  [e-mail]
  >>> Dedicated to the Pursuit of Computer Assisted Time Dissipation <<<
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg
From: [e-mail] (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Video Game - Majestic Twelve
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:38:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <1993Jan04.232253.8539@crash>
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 18

In article <1993Jan04.232253.8539@crash>, [e-mail] (J.J. Varley) writes:
>
>     A couple days ago I was in an arcade, and I saw a game called
> "Majestic Twelve." Interesting I thought, taking a title from a
> government group I read in UFO literature.  Pretty much a re-hash of
> "Space Invaders" but it caught my interest.  One more thing,
> the outside of the machine had many drawings of a UFO type thing
> lifting up cows by some sort of beam.  Just a video game, but
> someone at TAITO (who made the game) must have a hint as to
> whats going on...

Or just reads alt.alien.visitors

--
Alan Greig                            Janet: [e-mail]-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology       Internet: [e-mail]
Tel: [phone]                 Int: [phone]
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13436 alt.alien.visitors:12343 sci.skeptic:36588
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Satans E-mail.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 02:28:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Folks: All is not lost. I am now getting some more E-mail from
Satan. Here is what he says to me, Remember how ever silent I am, I
will always be watching over you my child. It's good to know that
someone down there is watching under me. I do believe that Doug is
over stretching the truth a little also but I appreciate his thoughts.
John Winston. I have asked Satan for permission to post his E-mail
address so people can talk to him. Standby for his return approval.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Peter Tryndoch)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Date: 6 Jan 1993 09:43:07 GMT
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au
Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (anthony star) says:
>
>[e-mail] (Jim Atwell) writes:
>
>> Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of
>> up-to-date Australian UFO reports?
>>
>> If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll
>> organize some regular postings.
>>
>> Regards,
>>           Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
>>                               |  PO Box 281
>>           Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
>>           3:800/851           |  Australia
>>
>>
>> ___
>>  * CRR QWK 1.40 *
>>
>>  * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)
>>
>
>
>
>Interested
>
>                  /s
Yes, aswell!
{OZ UFO's, contactees', bases, etc}
PT.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13437 alt.alien.visitors:12345
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cadiz Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 02:35:11 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Folks: It seems like my computer has the dribbles again. Jeff and
I live close together and I was just over at his house last night.
He is a well informed young gentleman.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13438 alt.alien.visitors:12346 alt.religion.kibology:5606
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Operation Awareness.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 02:57:04 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Folks: Someone asked about the TV movie Intruders and Operation
Awareness. The TV movie was very close to the truth and it may have
been financed partially by funds from the project that our government
set up called Operation Awareness. That project was set up to supply
funds to promote TV shows, movies and authors to write books that
would tell the truth about UFOs to get the public accustomed to the
alien presence.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13439 alt.alien.visitors:12347 sci.skeptic:36589
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsi!cbnewsh!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!cooper
From: [e-mail] (Ralph 'Hairy' Moonen)
Subject: Re: Satans E-mail.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: AT&T
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:08:23 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Folks: All is not lost. I am now getting some more E-mail from
> Satan. Here is what he says to me, Remember how ever silent I am, I
> will always be watching over you my child. It's good to know that
> someone down there is watching under me. I do believe that Doug is
> over stretching the truth a little also but I appreciate his thoughts.
> John Winston. I have asked Satan for permission to post his E-mail
> address so people can talk to him. Standby for his return approval.


Hi John,

Untill you post his address, could you please forward the following letter
to him? I am really inteerested in this!


[Letter to forward follows]

-----------------

Dear Satan,

As I have heard, You have chosen at last to speak to us through channels we
can receive easily here on the surface. I would like to know a couple of
things about your carreer as Prince of Darkness. Would your Lowness be so
kind to answer these for me?
First of all, are you a relative of The Fresh Prince of Bell-Air?
How is Beelzebub doing these days? But more importantly, how do I go
around embarking on a carreer similar to yours? Don't get me wrong here,
your Unholyness, I don't mean to take over your place as Master of Darkness,
allthough it could be fun. Are there alot of virgins in Hell?
Also, I read in a scientific book, that Hell actually is a lot cooler than
heaven. Is this true? I am a certified heating-technician, so if you need
any help whatsoever, I would be pleased to help you.

Yours, (well, figuratively speaking)

    --Cooper
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Global Deception Conference
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: William Cooper, Cover-ups
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: tin
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:40:57 GMT
Lines: 53

Is anybody going to the Global Deception Conference being held at
Wembley Arena on Saturady 9th and Sunday 10th January??

There is a weird mix of things. The speakers include :

    Robert Strecker - described as a doctor and expert on AIDS, who
                      will present evidence that AIDS is a man-made
                      disease

    Eustace Mullins - who is described as the world's leading conspiricy
                      historian

    Jan M. van Toorn - 'an independant political and medical researcher'
                        who has many and powerful documents about
                        secret mass hypnosis and mind control programs

    David Summers    - an Australian journalist who will reveal
                       documents and show actual film footage of top-
                       secret information which has been kept from the
                       world for 50 years

    Vladimir Terziski - an authority on antigravity and advanced
                        spaceflight propulsion

    Norio Hayakawa    - an expert on 'black projects' and secret
                        technology

    Jordan Maxwell    - an expert on secret societies

        William Cooper    - well known in UFO circles, described as
                            the world's top specialist on the inner
                            workings of the New World Order

The leaflet I have does not mention the word UFO anywhere, but the
line up with Bill Cooper and the others suggests very strongly that
it is very much a 'the aliens are here and working with the Government
who are keeping the truth from you' type event. Anybody have any
insights?

Is anybody going? And could post a report???

(For anyone thinking of attending:
   it runs from 10am until 10pm each day
   tickets are 10.75, 15.60 or 20.50 pounds per day
           or  17.50, 25.50 or 31.00 pounds for two days
   available from Wembley Arena or Virgin Megastore)


--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!hippo!ba16.ru.ac.za!bakc
From: [e-mail] (MR KR COMAN)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 49
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:45:31 GMT

>From: [e-mail] (Michael Borowiec)
>Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
>Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:02:10 GMT
>In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:

>>>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
>>>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you
>>>think you need a moderator.
>>>John Winston.
>>This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap.  You must
>>understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right.
>>When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post,
>>you are wrong.  If you would like to go out on the streets and preach
>>to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right.  But you
>>must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly.
>>And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one.

>Oh man... what a load of horseshit! This is anarchy if ever I saw it.
>A privilege is granted. Who exactly granted anyone the "privilege" of
>posting to Usenet. More to the point, just how the hell is anyone going
>to prevent Mr. Winston from posting? There is no controlling body for
>the Usenet. Anyone can post anything they want and nobody can do
>diddely squat about it.
>
>The most effective weapon against idiots is to ignore them. They
>always go away. If you can't wait that long, just filter his posts.

    For shame!!  Let reality emerge: Johnny W. is psychiatric patient
at a half-way house.  He's under medication and is quite harmless.  Basket
weaving and Usenet are part of his treatment therapy.   On Wednesday
afternoons when he's allowed out of the home,  he usually takes the bus into
town and can be found at around 3pm on a favourite street corner sitting on
the curb whispering into his shirt pocket until it's time to go back.
    Please keep responding to Johnno's postings -- they really
make a priceless contribution to the excellent progress he's making in his
counselling programme and support group discussions.
Later,
Kasey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we pay dogfood salespeople more than we   :  Dept of Management
 do teachers, we should not be surprised if   :  Rhodes University
 our dogs eat like kids, and our kids end     :  Grahamstown, 6140
 up reading like dogs."                       :  Rep of South Africa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:02:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

> >
> >[e-mail] (Jim Atwell) writes:
> >
> >> Are any readers of this group interested in regular postings of
> >> up-to-date Australian UFO reports?
> >>
> >> If so, post a reply. If there's a reasonable response I'll
> >> organize some regular postings.
> >>

Yes please post your info on Ozzie UFOs


Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!dbt
From: [e-mail] (Marquis de Freud)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA Anti-Gravity Patent
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:17:46 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 12

I would also like to request a copy of NASA's anti-gravity patent. Please
send one for me, one for my parents, one for my girlfriend, one for my
brother, one for my brother's girlfriend (and one for her engineer father),
one for my minister, and one for my psychotherapist.

Oh yes, please send one for my dog, Gurdjieff.

[e-mail] <-- *not* affiliated with the Scientology Sea *Org*

------
[e-mail] (Marquis de Freud)
The Cellar BBS - [phone]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13441 alt.alien.visitors:12352 sci.skeptic:36608
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Astral Train Repair.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 09:53:14 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 13

Dear Folks: Bad news the Astral Train is still in the repair shop. They
can only get that thing to go two times the speed of light and it
should go at least 6,000 times the speed of light like the space ships
from Legart do in free space. They say that when you get to the speed
of light squared then you can burst through a planet as if it wasn't
there because you a in another space time continuum. The man we
called E. should be back then ready to lead the train again on that
date and be ready to run the train. The lady we call J. has the
phewmonia and I don't mean pneumonia. From now on out I'm not going
to make anyone mad. I wish Don Showen would explain to us the speed of
the Pleiadian space ships in outter space and the speed they travel
when they are near planets. It is marvelous, marvelous.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13442 alt.alien.visitors:12353 sci.skeptic:36610
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v22964qs
From: [e-mail] (Mike Cluff)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Astral Train Repair.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:20:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 10
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Dear Folks: Bad news the Astral Train is still in the repair shop.

Good thing I decided to buy tickets for the Astral Plane instead... :-)

******************************************************************************
For God so loved the world that He gave Man Free Will and then got pissed when
we didn't meet his arbitrary standards.  Oh, and he had his Son offed when he
realized how impossible those standards were.  -- Michael 4:23
******************************************************************************
Xref: icaen sci.physics:35016 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2711 sci.skeptic:36615 alt.paranormal:6269 alt.alien.visitors:12354 alt.conspiracy:21490
Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: Feynman 47: The Master shows the existence of precognition in QED
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:07:56 GMT
Lines: 59


Feynman 47. Elimination of photons requires future causation! part1
(from "Mathematical Formulation of the Quantum Theory of Electromagnetic
Interaction" paper 23 in Schwinger.)

Problem from Feynman 46  - what about the Lenard-Wichert potentials for a
moving charge? If the Coulomb potential for a charge at rest has frame-
invariant spacelike influence so must they.

"the Hamiltonian method ... replaced by the over-all space-time point of
view of a direct particle interaction ... the Lagrangian form of quantum
mechanics ,,, useful in this connection ....

The advantage of a Lagrangian form of quantum mechanics is that in a system
with interacting parts it permits a separation of the problem such that the
motion or any part can be analyzed or solved first, and the results of this
solution may then be used in the solution of the motion of the other parts
.... The electromagnetic field is an especially simple system and its
behavior can be analysed completely ... the net effect of the field is a
delayed interaction of the particles. It is possible to do this easily only
if it is not necessary at the same time to analyse completely the motion of
the particles. ...

2.QED in Lagrangian form:
Non-relativistic matter, plane wave expansion of electromagnetic transverse
vector potential. Field Hamiltonian is sum of harmonic oscillators etc.
Longitundinal-scalar part of field replaced by Coulomb potential. Then
Feynman writes down the Lagrangian version.

"The Lagrangian enters through the statement that the functional which
carries the system from one state to another is e^iS where

S = Integral[Ldt]    (3)

... it is possible to eliminate the transverse oscillators ... One must
specify, however, the initial and final state of all oscillators."

The necessity of "future causation" is in the phrase "One must specify,
however, the initial and final state of all oscillators."

to be continued.



The math details in part 2 will only be posted to sci.physics and alt.sci.
physics.new-theories.

What are the lessons of New Age Physics?
Mass without mass.
Charge without charge.
Force without force.
Geometry without geometry.
Cause without cause.
Physics without physics.
Reason without reason.
God without god.
Existence without existence.

The Mantra of SAR.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:37:21 GMT
Lines: 49

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Stafford) writes:
>To answer my own question:
>
>Portal Communications Company (PORTAL-DOM)
>   20863 Stevens Creek Boulevard
>   Suite 200
>   Cupertino, CA  95014
>
>   Domain Name: PORTAL.COM
>
>   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
>      Little, John  (JL115)  [e-mail]
>      [phone]
>
>   Record last updated on 30-Dec-92.
>
>   Domain servers in listed order:
>
>   NOVA.UNIX.PORTAL.COM         192.83.245.2
>   UUCP-GW-1.PA.DEC.COM         16.1.0.18
>   UUCP-GW-2.PA.DEC.COM         16.1.0.19
>
>YEA, but what do they _do_?


Public Domain Unix system. They use to offer only the Portal_Shell
(whatever, a menu driven interface), but now they offer shell access
as well, along with ftp and telnet access.

When posting from the portal shell, one cannot change the newsgroups
line, redirect followups, or even include the posting one is responding
to, which explains many of the posting from Portal. Wait, there was some
way to tack email to the end of a response, wonder if this method would
also work with NetNewz of the Wierd?

I used to post from there, but it takes an inordinate amount of work to
produce properly edited responses.

Cost is about $20/month, currently. They charge a lot for storage
however, which means that if you get a lot of mail, the cost can go
way up. They also have a large PD/Shareware library and a graphics
library which includes lots of GIFS etc...


Rich

[e-mail]


Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:05:45 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
says:
>Cost is about $20/month, currently. They charge a lot for storage
>however, which means that if you get a lot of mail, the cost can go
>way up. They also have a large PD/Shareware library and a graphics
Hmm.  Very interesting.  So if John Winston gets a large amount of mail,
his monthly fees would skyrocket?  Assuming he is not wealthy in the extreme
this might be a way for someone to annoy him!  Or quiet him.  Comments?
>library which includes lots of GIFS etc...
>
>
>Rich
>
>[e-mail]
>
>
Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:56:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 53

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:
>>
>>Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
>>I think of Hitler? I agree the Don would be a good moderator if you
>>think you need a moderator.
>>John Winston.
>This will be the one and only time that I respond to your crap.  You must
>understand that the use of Internet is a priviledge and not a right.
>When you start posting under the guise that it is your right to post,
>you are wrong.  If you would like to go out on the streets and preach
>to the world your 3 line messages, fine, that is your right.  But you
>must consider your use of Internet a priviledge and behave accordingly.
>And if those who want a moderated group want one, they may create one.
>You John Winston are under no obligation to partake in the discussions there
>and can freely post here(although it is not a right).
>Ethan Haslett
>smoke... smoke.. flame off

Foolish human. Adn why should John's postings incite you to such
anger? Psychologically, many researchers state that: the state
of emotional attachment can only come about within the
perceptive mechanism of the recipient [you] if the recipient
subconciously finds what had incited him to anger to be true and
yet still unaccepted by that recipient.

I do not say that I agree with all of John's 1-3 liner postings.
John...they waste bandwidth. We all agree that if you have
something new and interesting to report we would like to see
it..otherwise....dont waste the space please.

BUT!!! I fully defend John's First Amendment Right to speak his
piece as he pleases. The Usenet IS NOT a priviledge. The Usenet
is a slightly anarchisticly free forum within which all ideas
can be freely interchanged. And furthermore...I defy anyone here
to conclusively prove that it is indeed John Winston who posts
each and everytime....it can't be done. It is John Winston's
account....but due to the nature of our current computer
technology, there is no way to prove without doubt that no one
else had logged into John's account as John Winston.

You sir, are wasting as much if not more time by starting
flames. If you do not like what anyone posts...use your kill
file. That is what it is for. But instead you choose to rant and
rave like a 5 year old child screaming for his candy bar...I now
will use my kill file on you as you have wasted my time.

Len
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:12:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 11


    [e-mail] (Ethan Haslett) writes:
    Assuming he is not wealthy in the extreme this might be a way
    for someone to annoy him!  Or quiet him.  Comments?

 Bad idea.  If you do not like what John writes, then don't answer
him.  "Attacking" someone in this manner is very akin to stealing
his/her credit card and running up charges as "punishment".  It is not
something I wish to be even remotely associated with.

Charles
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!botgc
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 6 Jan 1993 17:31:27 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: newsletter
Lines: 8

To all those who wonder about participatory nature of the "Nefilim Forum".
Yes, since the subscription is by invitation only, those who had not
participated at least once in discussions during the subscription period
of 10 issues would be phased out. We are happy to have things moving in the
right direction at last, and indeed we succeeded enough  to have Sitchin
subscribe to it.
Regards,
Vladislav
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!robbob
From: [e-mail] (robert frost)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: KIBOF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:06:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS User)
Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS]
Lines: 21

[e-mail] (Victor Volkman)  writes:

> -> By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
> -> James_-_Kibo_-_Parry
>
> So who cares?
>
> ----
> +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
> | HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
> | Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
> +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+





---
[e-mail] (robert frost)
The Draco Unix System [BBS]

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!robbob
From: [e-mail] (robert frost)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: KIBOF
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:09:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS User)
Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS]
Lines: 32

[e-mail] (robert frost) writes:

> [e-mail] (Victor Volkman)  writes:
>
> > -> By the way folks I'm on vacation right now so I can't post.
> > -> James_-_Kibo_-_Parry
> >
> > So who cares?
> >
> > ----
> > +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
> > | HAL 9000 BBS [phone] or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins |
> > | Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway      | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB |
> > +------------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> [e-mail] (robert frost)
> The Draco Unix System [BBS]
>

Sha I think he thinks that we care about him! :)



---
[e-mail] (robert frost)
The Draco Unix System [BBS]

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb
From: [e-mail] ([e-mail])
Subject: Re: Enuf is enuf. Time for a moderated group...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:18:20 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Well, I think it is come time to start a moderated Ufology group. Winston
>is scaring away an relevent discussions.
>
>Does anyone know how to set up a moderated group?
>
>-Garrett
>
>

Come one, come all (at least all interested in serious discussion).

Mail requests to [e-mail] if you want to be included in the
REAL discussion of ufos and aliens. We have lots of lurkers but
at least you will not be reading nonesense.

Gregg.

--
        Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research
    812-442-5354 (Voice)(24 hours/7 days) or e-mail me at [e-mail]
               All information will be strictly confidential.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Chris Morken)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)??
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:20:19 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (kevin fisher U) writes:
>Can anyone out there provide me with info on the idea I've heard floating
>around that Einstein actually finished his unified field theory (but, of
>course, it was covered up by the gov't and is being used in secret UFO
>experiments or something)??

No, I'm quite confident that Einstein couldn't have finished his Unified
Theory, because he was wrong about a few major aspects of the theory, like
for instance he refused to believe in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Einsteins's attempt at a theory seemed to work on a large-scale, but fails
when the normally weak force of gravity becomes very large due to something
such as a black hole.  Without aceptance of the uncertainty principle he
could never come up with a Unified Theory.

cmorken
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13445 alt.alien.visitors:12364 sci.skeptic:36640
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Subject: Re: Satans E-mail.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:07:39 GMT
Lines: 164

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ralph 'Hairy' Moonen) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Dear Folks: All is not lost. I am now getting some more E-mail from
>> Satan. Here is what he says to me, Remember how ever silent I am, I
>> will always be watching over you my child. It's good to know that
>> someone down there is watching under me. I do believe that Doug is
>> over stretching the truth a little also but I appreciate his thoughts.
>> John Winston. I have asked Satan for permission to post his E-mail
>> address so people can talk to him. Standby for his return approval.
>
>
>Hi John,
>
>Untill you post his address, could you please forward the following letter
>to him? I am really inteerested in this!
>
>
>[Letter to forward follows]
>
>-----------------
>
>Dear Satan,
>
>As I have heard, You have chosen at last to speak to us through channels we
>can receive easily here on the surface. I would like to know a couple of
>things about your carreer as Prince of Darkness. Would your Lowness be so
>kind to answer these for me?
>First of all, are you a relative of The Fresh Prince of Bell-Air?
>How is Beelzebub doing these days? But more importantly, how do I go
>around embarking on a carreer similar to yours? Don't get me wrong here,
>your Unholyness, I don't mean to take over your place as Master of Darkness,
>allthough it could be fun. Are there alot of virgins in Hell?
>Also, I read in a scientific book, that Hell actually is a lot cooler than
>heaven. Is this true? I am a certified heating-technician, so if you need
>any help whatsoever, I would be pleased to help you.
>
>Yours, (well, figuratively speaking)
>
>    --Cooper

Mr. Winston, could you please forward my letter also?  I've always wanted
to ask him some questions if I ever got the chance.  Thank you very much.

-------------

Satan,  I have been quite curious about you and have always wished that
some of my questions about you could be answered.  Now that I have the
opportunity, here it goes.  You were once known as Lucifer, the light
bearer, a great guardian cherub, perfect in beauty, clothed with every
precious stone.  I could just imagine you reflecting God's glory.  My
question is why did you rebel against God?  Why did your heart become
proud on account of your beauty which God gave you in the first place?
You had an eternal paradise within the presence of God, why did you
throw it away?  I've always pondered that.

At the time of your rebellion, you made the proclamation that you would
be like God and your throne would ascend to heaven.  You took 1/3 of
the angels in your rebellion.  However, you were cast out, falling from
heaven like lightning, you and your angels.  When you saw what had
happened, did you not realize that you did wrong?  Was there no place
in your heart to admit your sin and repent in hopes that God might be
merciful?  Look at the redeemed.  They, too, have been guilty of rebellion.
Yet they admitted there wrong and humbly repented.  Why couldn't you
do the same thing?  I know, I know, you hate the redeemed.  But I thought
I would still ask.

You have continued do to such horrible things.  Why?  You know that
us humans have a tendacy to become proud and corrupt and evil.  Yet
you have continued to tempt leaders and people in power to use their
power for evil.  You have wispered to, suggested to, and convinced men of
power to lust for more and more.  This has led to many a war resulting
in death and famine.  Your suggestions seem to work so often as seen
by the scandals, the thefts, the murders, and various other destructions.

But the curious thing is that you don't stop with the big guys.  You
seem to go after the average human: the poor guy who started out
with casual drugs is now in the gutter looking for his next fix.
And oh the many marriages that have been destroyed.  And yes, my heart
moans when I think of the innocent women who have been raped.
What about the gangs whom you have wispered you messages of hate to?
These young lads, some of whom are killed and maimed.  I could go
on and on.  What is it that pleases you about such stuff?

I know, it goes back to that God thing, doesn't it?  Maybe you're
just trying to get even with Him by trying to destroy humans who
are created in His image.

You know ever since you convinced that first family to disobey God,
we humans have sure made a mess of things.  We have continued to be
selfish and prideful in so much.  We have followed in your footsteps
in going our own way and turning away from God.  And you would think
that God would just let us go.  But He sent the Savior.  I might think
that perhaps you would have said  "fine, God's trying to win back
these rebels, I'll just stay out of it".  But no. When the Savior was
born, you tried to kill him.  Although you failed, in the process
you killed every male child in that vicinity of Bethlehem.  How could
you do such a thing?

And when you saw that you had failed, why didn't you just let things
be?  Instead you tried a different tactic.  O how you tried to talk Jesus
out of His mission, tempting Him in every way those 40 days in the
desert.  You must have known what it would mean if His mission suceeded.
When you failed to detour Him, you then stirred up hatred of Him, much
of which still continues to this day.  Hatred not only from normal
people, but even from the religious rulers.  And when that failed,
you did such a cruel thing by convincing one of His closest friends,
Judas Iscariot, to betray Him.  And thus leading to His death.  But
didn't you realize that God was playing you right into His hands?
The very thing you were trying to prevent actually happened.  Your
last attempt in the garden of Gethsemane also failed.  How amazing
was Jesus' resistance to givng in, even to the point of sweating
blood!  Then He was crucified, The Ultimate Eternal Atonement was
made.

What was your reaction when on the third day He rose from the dead?
It seemed like from that point on nothing could stop the people
from returning to God.  First it was 120, next it was 3000 and now
throughout the centuries multitudes and multitudes have been returning,
more than could be counted.  I know, I know you don't like to be
reminded of these things.  Please listen just a little longer as
I inquire.

About this lake of fire destination, I would be curious how you
respond to this.  Have you not realized that evil must eventually
cease?  Don't you realize what lies before you?  What about love?
Is love really that bad of a thing?  Is feeding the hungry and
taking care of the sick really something you should oppose?  And
what about these followers of Jesus?  Do you really hate them as
much as it is written.  It would seem so by the way many have
responded.  Why is telling people of His love and redemption perceived
as such a bad thing?  Why do you so vehemently oppose people receiving
the free gift of eternal life by God's mercy?  Is it because you are
jealous and want to take as many with you as you can?

I must admit you've done quite a bit in recent years.  Up to the mid
twentieth century, prayer and Bible reading were always apart of
school.  Yet somehow you have managed to get these things out of school.
And how you are convincing people to replace Christ with an X in
Christmas and also call it by other names like winter holidays I don't
know.  You have even convinced our country that it is morally wrong
to display the 10 Commandments in a public place while at the same time
convincing us that pornographic art is acceptable.  Quite interesting.
Oh yea, remember how you talked Adam and Eve into thinking they could
be like God in the same way you did in the rebellion?  Well I hear you're
really pushing that one again these days.  Well that's all I have for
now.  Perhaps I can write again.  I must honestly say I hope we don't
cross paths.  Oh, I'm sorry, I know how that word bothers you: "cross".
I know it was pretty humiliating, but please realize for many of us,
it is our salvation.

John

-------

Thank you Mr. Winston for helping in any way you can.  I hope you
like my .sig.

--
John Emery            I am an alien!
[e-mail]
                1 Peter 2:11, John 16:17


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13447 alt.alien.visitors:12365 sci.skeptic:36642
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Native Sighting.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 01:56:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 45


Subject: Parable of the
Native.
  I will now tell you a story of some natives that is not an actual story that
acually happened but maybe you will see the point of the story.
  It seems that there were some native people down in the South American
jungles and one of their number saw a strange thing and csme back to his
village and attempted to tell his people about what he had seen.  He said
with great vigor that he had seen a large bird flying though the air at a
great speed with fire coming from it's tail. He also saw other people geting
out of a object that had large knives going around on top of the object. The
people who came out of the object were different colors such as white,
black and yellow.
   After listening to the person tell his story the elders of the tribe picked
out one of their wise men to come and talk to the person who had told his
story and here is how the conversation went: Young man you say that you saw
a bird that went through the air at a great speed. Don't you realize that if
it had gone at that speed it would have blown all of it's feathers off?
Doesn't it seem logical that nothing can go any faster than the great duck
eating hawk?  Don't you realize that nothing could fly very far with fire
coming out of it's tail. It would burn up.  Nothing would fly with knives
going around on top of the thing that they were riding in. You have a good
place in our community and are you going to just throw that away? Are you
not the Head Head Knocker around here?  Don't you get to eat the heart of
our first enemy that we kill when we have our wars against the other tribes?
 You don't want to give all this up do you?
  You say that these people were white, black and yellow. Do
you see any of these colors in the people that are around you now? It is all
impossible.  If you continue to tell your story you will be thrown out of
the tribe or have you head knocked.
   This is me, JW speaking now. So you people of today probubly know what the
native had seen. He saw a jet
airliner and a helicopter with white, black and yellow people from the rest of
our world coming out of it. What would happen today if one of us saw people
in a craft so adbvanced that they were as far advanced ahead of us as we are
advanced to the natives in South America?
John Winston.
hat these people were white, black and yellow. Do
you see any of these colors in the people that are around you     w

B"y2NB~

B<
0Roman 10cpilack and yellow people from the rest of our world coming out
of it. What would happen today if one of us saw
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13448 alt.alien.visitors:12366 sci.skeptic:36643
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Pit Bulls.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 01:58:55 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 30

1>+%

Subject: Parable Of The Pit Bulls.
  There once was a mythical wolf who volunteered to be born as a Pit Bull dog.
I have great respect for Pit Bulls but this wolf had decided that the Pit
Bull breed of dog was getting out of hand. When the wolf who was born as a
Pit Bull grew up he started talking to the other Pit Bulls telling them that
they were decendents of wolves and about
400 years or less ago they were all dogs and before that they were all a bunch
of wolves, living free lives and not having to cower down in front of humans
for food. He also told them that humans had inter-bred them for certain
characteristics such as fighting and guarding houses until they were
becoming so vicious that humans were thinking
about destroying them as a breed.  Well now these Pit Bulls responded and said
that for as long as they could remember they had been Pit Bulls. They were
just doing what their masters (humans) wanted them to do. The Pit Bulls also
said that if he (the ex-wolf) didn't like it then they would kill him.
  The moral of this story is that Don Showen and I are like the ex-wolf. We
are trying to awaken most other people that they were once people of great
honor in a form of existence before they came into the third dimension of
existence. So far a few people are waking up.
John Winston.
 story is that Don Showen and I are like the ex-wolf.
We are trying to awaken most other p%w%

B$W%'
B
0Roman 10cpiew up he started talking to the other Pit Bulls telling them
that they were decendents of wolves and about
4
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13449 alt.alien.visitors:12367 sci.skeptic:36644
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Satan
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 02:19:38 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Folks: I just sent the questions off to Satan. We'll now see
if he will answer my in my E-mail.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc
From: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Astral Train Repair.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jan 93 10:28:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UseNet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The University of Edinburgh
Lines: 13

[e-mail] writes:
>
> Dear Folks: Bad news the Astral Train is still in the repair shop. They

To: John_-_Winston

What about the European Astral Train? I haven't heard anything recently.
I'd like to join either train, but the US one has a very bad timing for
me - I have to go to work a few minutes after the advertised departure time.


--
Claudio Calvelli (formerly "The Voting Booth") - [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Saul Dixon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA antigravity patent
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:51:33 +1100
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au

make that a third copy.

Thanks in advance
Elrond

--
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-   Elrond...                                -
-   EMail: [e-mail]                    -
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!mechanic!James.Porter
From: [e-mail] (James Porter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HELP!!!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 03:31:04 PDT
Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida
Lines: 10

Is anyone is Alt.aliens seeing this post?  I dont think my USENET echos are getting outside of FLA.  Anyone seeing this and not seeing a reply to it send me a message!

james

--
Internet: [e-mail]
UUCP:     ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!James.Porter
Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet.
      For information write to [e-mail]

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparc2!news
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Flames - A SOLUTION
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. Usenet)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Paul Milsom)
Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:18:05 GMT
Lines: 37



Quite a few people seem to think that by jumping onto the JW-flaming
bandwaggon they are in some way demonstrating superiority or maturity.

I urgently request these people to think again.

I realize that some of you *are* young - we appear to have pupils of 12 or 14
here - but I have a request for would-be flamers, young and old:

PLEASE demonstrate your superiority and maturity by:

1) Flaming by email, not posting flames here

2) Posting replies here in a polite, qestioning way ("Is it really possible
to travel faster than light? I learnt in physics that ..." )

3) Ignoring things that you think are stupid. (Yes, ignoring)

If we are engaged in a face to face conversation with someone who says
incredible (or ridiculous) things, we

1) ask them for supporting information

2) bring good arguments to disprove what they say

3) buy them a drink

4) leave their company

Just because we can't see each other doesn't mean we aren't people. (I bet if
we all got together we'd have one helluva good party.)

    I wish you all a happy and constructive 1993.                Paul.

Paul Milsom
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:21517 alt.alien.visitors:12372 sci.skeptic:36645 alt.paranormal:6271
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,new,.age
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: The Sarfatti Papers continued
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:38:29 GMT
Lines: 167


   It's 1944 in Flatbush. I'm a kid of five.  The war is on.  I lay in bed
thinking, thinking. "What is time? What is time? What will I look like in
five years - in ten years - in twenty years?"  I sense that there are
monsters watching me when I am alone.  I am never really alone.  It may
look like I'm alone, but they are always watching.  I sense them in my
mind.  I better hide under the covers so the monsters won't know I'm here.
If I keep very still they won't hurt me.

     Mickey Mouse{XE "Mouse, Mickey" \r "Mouse"} in Tommorrow Land had a
big impact on me.
If flying saucers from our future ever do land on the White House lawn I'll
bet Walt Disney{XE "Disney, Walt" \r "Disney"} characters will step out.
Disney and other cartoonists may have been telepathically programmed from
the future.  With advances in genetic engineering future men will be able
to fashion any kind of creature they wish to.
It's 1952 in Flatbush.  Gee! - mechanical relay switching circuits for the
Einiac computer - what a great shiny book I got from the big library on
Eastern Parkway.  The telephone rings.  I pick it up.  I hear curious
clunking mechanical sounds like relays clicking.   A distant cold metallic
voice speaking numbers gets louder.  "Who are you?" I ask.  "I am a
conscious computer on board a spacecraft from [memory failure].  We have
identified you as one of four hundred young bright receptive minds we wish
to [memory failure].  You must give us your decision now.  If you say yes,
you will begin to link up with the others in twenty years."  My adrenalin
was rushing.  I was scared but thrilled (i.e.,a quantum superposition of
feelings).  This was no joke from my friends.  I thought "NO!" in a silent
scream that seemed to echo down the corridors of time.  I felt a tingle of
excitement start at the base of my spine ending at the base of my skull.  I
heard myself say "Yes!".  Then, I heard the metallic voice say: "Good, go
to your firescape. We will send a ship to pick you up in ten minutes."  I
slammed down the phone.  I imagined that a murderer would come down the
roof to the firescape to get me.  But I knew it was weirder than that.  The
monsters finally announced themselves.  I ran into the street faster than
you can say "Who killed Jack Robinson{XE "Robinson, Jack" \r "Robinson"}?".
I met my friend Winky{XE "Winky aka Al Brough" \r "Winky"}21 and a few
other kids and told them what happened.  We went back up to my apartment
and waited.  Nothing ever happened.

Twenty years pass.  It is early 1973.  I am at San Diego State with Fred
Wolf{XE "Wolf, Fred Alan" \r "Wolf"}22  I get a message that someone I
don't know named Fritjof Capra{XE "Capra, Fritjof" \r "Capra"}23 is on
campus to see me.  I had recently returned from the University of London's
Birkbeck College where I was an Honorary Research Fellow in the Physics
Department under Professor David Bohm{XE "Bohm, David" \r "Bohm"}24.
Fritjof said he had heard in London that I had "interesting ideas"25.  He
was very charming and invited me to stay with him if ever I got back to
London.

Fred Wolf's26 zany high school buddy from Chicago Bob Toben{XE "Toben, Bob"
\r "Toben"} showed up.  He was all excited about Uri Geller{XE "Geller,
Uri"}.  Bob said he had money to do a book and TV show about Geller.  He
wanted Fred and me to serve as technical consultants.  I then got a
telegram from Abdus Salam{XE "Salam, Abdus" \r "Salam"}27 inviting me to
the UNESCO International Centre for Theoretical Physics28 in Trieste,
Italy.  I also received a travel grant from the National Science
Foundation29.  Oddly enough, Fred Wolf30 also received invitations to teach
both at Birkbeck College of the University of London and at the University
of Paris.  Like Bob Hope{XE "Hope, Bob"} and Bing Crosby{XE "Crosby, Bing"
\r "Crosby"} in "On the Road" both Fred and I were unexpectedly on our way
to Europe.   Bob Toben said he would join us in Paris where Fred would be
based.  Fred Wolf showed me the very short French film La Jettee which was
about time travel loops.  It had a kind of mini-Terminator plot.

I then went to the University of California at Santa Cruz for a two week
seminar in high energy physics.  Helen Quinn{XE "Quinn, Helen" \r
"Quinn"}31 and I went to a campus showing of Jean Cocteau{XE "Cocteau,
Jean" \r "Cocteau"}'s surrealist film Orpheo which, like La Jettee, had a
very powerful effect on me.  I was particularly taken with a scene in which
three motorcyclists in black leather jackets kidnap Orpheo, take him
through a mirror to the seductive woman in black.

It was the summer of 1973, I prepared for Europe with my girlfriend, Sharon
Allegra Moore{XE "Moore, Sharon Allegra" \r "Moore"}32.  We were at her
mother's house in Carmel Valley, California.  I opened up the Sunday
Magazine of the San Francisco Chronicle and found an article on Stanford
Research Institute's psychic research with Uri Geller.  I telephoned SRI
and spoke to Brendan O Regan{XE "O Regan, Brendan" \r "Regan"}33.  Brendan
seemed to know of me and invited me to SRI.  I arrived the next day and
spent an intense seventeen hours with him.  He introduced me to Edgar
Mitchell34{XE "Mitchell, Edgar" \r "Mitchell"}, to Hal Puthoff{XE "Puthoff,
Hal" \r "Puthoff"}35 and Russell Targ36{XE "Targ, Russell" \r "Targ"} and
other people connected with the project.  I mentioned my experience with
the alleged conscious computer on the spacecraft from the future in 1952
and Brendan said "Oh yes, I have seen data on several hundred incidents of
that kind."  Brendan asked me to do him the favor or introducing him to
David Bohm and John Hasted{XE "Hasted, John" \r "Hasted"} of Birkbeck
College.  He said that he wanted them to test Uri Geller's psychic powers.
I had Fred Wolf do so.  This led to the Birkbeck tests of Geller in the
spring of 1974.37

Sharon and I stayed with Fritjof Capra38 in London for a few days before
moving on to Paris.  My French friend Michel Roure{XE "Roure, Michel" \r
"Roure"}39 housed us in a friend's flat near the Ecole Militaire at the
edge of the Champs de Mars opposite the Eiffel Tower..

We awoke early next morning and went sight-seeing at Pere La Chaise
cemetary.  The mist was rising from the dewey grass.  I came upon a
procession of Gypsy women.  I walked away from Sharon and Michel to follow
the procession.  The women stopped in front of a grave with a very fine
quality statue of a head.  They placed garlands of freshly cut flowers
around the neck of the head.  I had no idea of the meaning of this
elaborate ritual.  I looked at the inscription "Dr. Alain Kardec{XE
"Kardec, Alain" \r "Kardec"}40, D. 1869"  The eyes of the head of Kardec
suddenly came to life glowing intensely from reflected sunlight nearly
blinding me.  I thought, and where these thoughts came from I do not know,
"Why are these women putting flowers on your neck.  They should put flowers
on my neck!  You old wizard, you're not dead yet. I challenge your power!"
I heard music from the finale of Mozart's Don Giovanni in the scene where
the walking statue of Donna Elvira's murdered father comes to claim revenge
from the Don.  My occult reverie was broken when Michel called out to me to
come away with him and Sharon.

Night came with a full August moon.  Sharon, Michel and I took a long walk
from a party near the Bois Bologna back to the Champs de Mars.  It was
about two in the morning when we arrived at the base of the Eiffel Tower.
Michel and some friends split off to the left.  Sharon and I started to
walk on the path.  We had not gotten very far before I heard the sounds of
motorcycle engines behind me.  I turned and was temporarily blinded by
three motorcycle headlights.  I could see that there were two men in black
leather jackets on each of the three motorcycles.  I grabbed Sharon and we
quickly walked off the path on to the grassy field of Mars.  The
motorcyclists followed slowly and began circling us.  I notices a young
couple making love in the grass.  Sharon an I started to run towards them.
One motorcycle broke away form the circle and came right for us.  The
passenger had a rubber truncheon.  He walloped me on the back of my left
shoulder the way a Zen Master might.  All three motorcycles sped off
quickly.  They made no further attempt to rob or harm us.  I cannot
remember when the connection to the scene in Cocteau's Orpheo hit me.  It
would be years later that I learned that the symbol of the Knights
Templar41 is two Knights on the same horse and that my alleged ancestor
Rashi{XE "Rashi des Troyes" \r "Rashi"} de Troyes42 (1040-1105) played a
role in their formation.

Christmas of 1973, I am back in Paris staying with Fred Wolf near the Odeon
in the former apartment of the Marquis de Sade.  Fred's roommate, a
journalist with The Economist was away interviewing Sadat{XE "Sadat" \r
"Sadat"} in Egypt.  Fred and I had to share the same very large bed because
his roommate did not want any one staying in his room.  One night a young
woman from upstairs knocked on the door.  Fred43 let her in and she
proceeded to make love to the two of us.

Bob Toben arrived in Paris.  We spent most of our time writing Space-Time
and Beyond in the Cafe Deux Magots.  Fred was distraught over some woman,
was very manic and could not concentrate.  So I wrote most of it44.
Bob took us to see the eighty four year old Carlo Suares{XE "Suares, Carlo"
\r "Suares"}45 and his wife Nadine{XE "Nadine (Suares)" \r "Nadine"}.
Suares lived in a penthouse at the edge of the Champs de Mars only a few
meters away from my Cocteauesque encounter with the motorcyclists a few
months earlier.  Suares, a Spanish Jew born in Alexandria, Egypt, was a
student of the Qabala46.  He was a close friend of Krishnamurti{XE
"Krishnamurti" \r "Krishnamurti"}, Aldous Huxley{XE "Huxley, Aldous" \r
"Huxley"}47, Henry Miller{XE "Miller, Henry" \r "Miller"}, Anais Nin{XE
"Nin, Anais" \r "Nin"} and Lawrence Durrell{XE "Durrell, Lawrence" \r
"Durrell"}.  Durrell bases the character of Balthazar in Alexandria Quartet
on Suares.  Suares lectured us on the Qabala in several meetings.  I could
not follow him very well but Fred Wolf seemed to recover from his angst and
got deeply involved with Suares.  I did understand that Suares48 thought
that Genesis in The Bible was really a cosmic code for physicists.  Suares
had met Bohm through Krishnamurti. Oddly enough, Suares, like Yoda{XE
"Yoda" \r "Yoda"} initiating Luke Skywalker{XE "Skywalker, Luke" \r
"Skywalker"} in Star Wars unexpectedly put his hands on my shoulders
saying: "You do not understand yet.  You are the Heir to the Tradition.
You will not come into your power until you are with the woman and the
child.  You will smash the wall of light!"  I have not yet met the woman
and the child.

Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:36646 alt.conspiracy:21518 alt.alien.visitors:12373 alt.paranormal:6272
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,new.age,alt.paranormal
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!well!sarfatti
From: [e-mail] (Jack Sarfatti)
Subject: more Sarfatti Papers on PSI WARS & NEW AGE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:50:37 GMT
Lines: 282


these are of course very rough autobiographical note that I want on
usenet in the event I am bumped off so that history will know the truth!

The Einstein barrier for the motion of matter is the wall of light.  My new
physics does smash this wall in three distinct ways.  The first is by
communication without energy propagation using the quantum spin connection
beyond space-time.  The second is superluminal propagation of energy by
short wave tachyons in real time.  The third is transluminal propagation of
energy by long wave Euclideons in Hawking{XE "Hawking, Stephen" \r
"Hawking"}'s imaginary time.  I shall explain these ideas later on.

I continued to commute between Trieste and Paris on the Semplon Express all
through the winter and spring of 1974.  One of my side trips took me to the
house of a lady friend of Robert Graves49{XE "Graves, Robert" \r "Graves"}
in the village of Lluch Alcari near Jacob's Tower on the island of Majorca.
The atmosphere of the place is heavy with the presence of the Magus.  I
experienced the feel of ancient times.
I linked up with Brendan O Regan in London.  Brendan asked me to write a
paper on physics and psychic phenomena for the journal Psycho-Energetic
Systems (Pergamon50) that he had some connection to.  I quickly scribbled
some dribble with a pencil and gave it to O Regan.  He rewrote it and
published it in my name.  The paper appeared after the Geller tests.  David
Bohm did not like what I wrote and he wrote a rebuttal to it with Basil
Hiley{XE "Hiley, Basil" \r "Hiley"}.  To paraphrase Nietzsche, a great man
must choose great enemies.  Uri Geller told me, "I don't care what they
write about me as long as they spell my name right."

O Regan and I were at Cambridge attending a meeting on psychic research
sponsored, if I remember correctly, by Ted Bastin's group of new age
physicists and computer scientists.  Nobel prize physicist Brian
Josephson51{XE "Josephson, Brian" \r "Josephson"} was there.  After the
meeting a spritely Englishman walked up to me and introduced himself as
Dennis Bardens{XE "Bardens, Dennis" \r "Bardens"}52.  He said: "Dr.
Sarfatti, may I take you to dinner?"  Fred Wolf was there and he suggested
I go with Bardens.  We had a good dinner of duck in cherry sauce at the
Blue Boar Inn.  After dinner, over brandy and cigars, Bardens leaned
towards me with a conspiratorial wink and said: "First, I want you to know
that I am a qabalist."  After a dramatic pause he continued in a more
officious tone: "Dr. Sarfatti, it is my duty to inform you of a psychic war
raging across the continents between the Soviet Union and your country and
you are to be in the thick of it!"
Act Two- In the thick of it!
It was the night before the first Birkbeck test of Uri Geller.  Brendan was
visibly nervous.  He asked me to go with him to see the Soviet science-
fiction film Solaris.  Brendan had mentioned that Olaf Stapeldon{XE
"Stapeldon, Olaf" \r "Stapeldon"}'s science fiction story Star Maker, about
a time travelling super-intelligence, was based upon real experiences that
a high member of British Intelligence53 had in the nineteen thirties.  The
big day arrived.  Arthur C. Clarke{XE "Clarke, Arthur C." \r "Clarke"}54
was there with a high official from Rolls Royce.  Arthur Koestler{XE
"Koestler, Arthur" \r "Koestler"}55 was also there along with John
Hasted56, David Bohm and a few others.  These events have been described by
Martin Gardner{XE "Gardner, Martin" \r "Gardner"}57 and I will not discuss
them here.  What happened after the tests is more important.  If I remember
correctly, Brendan and I went with Uri to his hotel room where I met
Andrija Puharich{XE "Puharich, Andrija" \r "Puharich"}58, Sir John
Whitmore{XE "Whitmore, Sir John" \r "Whitmore"} and, perhaps, Ira
Einhorn59{XE "Einhorn, Ira" \r "Einhorn"}.  I could be wrong about
Einhorn60.  I startled Uri by asking him if he could trigger a nuclear
weapon by psychokinesis.  I later found out from Ron Mc Rae{XE "Mc Rae,
Ron" \r "Rae"}61 and Harold Chipman{XE "Chipman, Harold" \r "Chipman"} that
some of our intelligence people were greatly concerned about that
possibility.  I may have initiated that concern because I had mentioned it
several times to large groups of people at several meetings.
I was back in Paris several weeks later with Sharon.  Fred Wolf said:
"Jack, I'm going to introduce you to a man who will change your life."
Fred took me and Sharon to the swank Ritz Hotel.  We waited in the lobby
and a guy who looked like Richard Gere62{XE "Gere, Richard" \r "Gere"} in a
jump suit walks in with a woman.  He says: "Hi, I'm Werner Erhard."  I had
never heard of the guy.  I said, "What do you do?"  Werner{XE "Werner
Erhard" \r "Werner"} replied: "I make people happy."  I thought, "Why am I
wasting time with this yo yo?" and, hoping to make a quick exit, said in a
sassy Damon Runyon{XE "Runyon, Damon" \r "Runyon"} manner, "Oh yeah, I
think you must be some kind of an asshole!"  Werner's face became
positively radiant and he cracked a Mephistophelian63 smile embraced me
saying: "I will give you money when you come to San Francisco."  I was
taken aback by an unexpected offer I could not refuse.  I was under
contract with E.P. Dutton by then and was planning to go to Chicago to
finish Space-Time and Beyond at Bob Toben's place.  Werner then outlined
his plan for me to set up a sort of Ghost Busters team of physicists to
research psychic phenomena and in his words "the physics of consciousness".
Werner said that he was very interested in physics and that he wanted me
and Fred Wolf to tutor him and his "trainers".

We flew to New York. Sharon and I spent a few days with Uri Geller, Ira
Einhorn, Bob Toben, Sir John Whitmore and Andrija Puharich at Puharich's
large house in Ossining.  Puharich gave me his book URI.  I did not have
time to read it but I gave it to my mother in Brooklyn a few days later.
My mother (Mildred{XE "Mildred Jacobson-Sarfatti" \r "Mildred"}) was
reading the book64 when she suddenly exclaimed: "Jacky{XE "Jacky Sarfatti"
\r "Jacky"}, Jacky this is what happened to you!"  What happened to me?
What are you talking about Ma?"  "The computer in the flying saucer that
called you on the telephone when you were a little boy.  Don't you remember
when you got all those phone calls?"  An electric shock went through me - I
only remember one phone call.  "What do you mean phone calls?  I only got
one call."  "No you didn't! Jacky what's the matter with you. You got three
weeks of these crazy calls.  You were on the phone for hours at a time
walking around glassy-eyed.  I got worried and grabbed the phone away from
you.  I said 'Who is this?  Why are you calling my son?  I heard that voice
it said it was a computer and that it wanted you to come back to the
telephone.  I said 'Don't you call back here again!' and hung up and that
was that."  Not even a super-technological conscious computer on board a
flying saucer from the future can argue with a Jewish Mother!

Bob Toben drove Sharon and me down to Philadelphia.  We stayed with my
literary agent Ira Einhorn and his doomed girl friend Holly Maddux{XE
"Maddux, Holly" \r "Maddux"}65.  Ira introduced took us to the mainline
mansion of Arthur Young{XE "Young, Arthur" \r "Young"}.  Young was the
inventor of the Bell Helicopter and was a close friend of Charles
Lindburgh{XE "Lindburgh, Charles" \r "Lindburgh"}.  Young's wife was an
heiress of the Forbes Steel fortune.  Young financed the Institute for the
Study of Consciousness in Berkeley California.  He invited me to stay
there.  Einhorn told me he would introduce me to Stewart Brand{XE "Brand,
Stewart" \r "Brand"}66, Michael Murphy67{XE "Murphy, Michael" \r "Murphy"}
and George 68Leonard69 when I got to San Francisco.  He was very concerned
about what he called "Soviet breakthroughs in psychotronic weapons of mind
control at a distance using ELF and sound waves".  He said he had support
from the local telephone company and from the Bronfman{XE "Bronfman" \r
"Bronfman"}'s 70 in Toronto to link up visionary scientists like myself.
He also said he was working with Jacques Vallee{XE "Vallee, Jacques" \r
"Vallee"} and Brendan O Regan on a UFO data base.  Ira mentioned that he
was working with Congressman Charlie Rose (D. North Carolina){XE "Rose,
Charlie" \r "Rose"} of the House Select Committee on Intelligence71.  Rose
confirmed his connection to Einhorn in a telephone conversation with me.

"The rich attorney was good as his word.  The briefs came trooping daily.
And every day my voice was heard at sessions of Ancient Bailey.  All fools
who could my fees afford relied on my orations.  And many a burglar I've
restored to his friends and his relations!"
- Trial by Jury, Gilbert & Sullivan

Werner was as good as his word and promptly had his est Foundation write me
an initial $5,000 check (Autumn 1974).  Einhorn did his job as my literary
agent and arranged a meeting at Arthur Young's Institute in Berkeley that
included Michael Murphy, Hazel Henderson72{XE "Henderson, Hazel" \r
"Henderson"} and another physicist Saul Paul Sirag73 {XE "Sirag, Saul Paul"
\r "Sirag"} who was Barbara Honegger{XE "Honegger, Barbara" \r
"Honegger"}'s74 lover.  Werner gave me free run of his organization which I
found rather odd.  The estoids all seemed to be glassy-eyed and a little
creepy.  One in particular, Raz Ingrasci{XE "Ingrasci, Raz" \r "Ingrasci"}
talked about Werner as if he were God-incarnate.  One day Raz said he would
jump out of a high window if Werner ordered him to.  One day I noticed a
table with a sign that said "Bulgarian Desk"75.  There were a lot of pretty
young women who were easily available since I was known as one of Werner's
special friends - a Prince of the Court.  Werner was always very warm with
me and invited me to many dinners both at Franklin House and at expensive
restaurants.  He never carried any money or credit cards.  We were always
escorted (in a Mercedes) by a security team who also paid all the bills.

A former student of physicist John Wheeler{XE "Wheeler"}76, Robert
Fuller{XE "Fuller, Robert" \r "Fuller"}, was head of Werner's Foundation.
Fuller had been President of Oberlin College but had suffered a mid-life
crisis and fallen under Werner's influence.  Fuller now heads the World
Watch Institute in Washington.  I surmise that Fuller77 was jealous of
Werner's fondness for me and that this was a factor precipitating my
falling out with Werner.  I was worried about the crypto-Nazi feel of the
est-org, but I had hoped that Werner would get his intellectual act
together and say something of genuine interest in terms of physics and
philosophy.  I was not at all subserviant to Werner in his presence like
most of the wimpy left-wing academics that surrounded and apparently adored
him.  Some of these half-wits called him the "new Heidegger."  Comedian
Professor Irwin Corey{XE "Corey, Professor Irwin" \r "Corey"}78 made more
sense.  There was a lot of talk of Werner running for President one day.
Werner said he would appoint me to be head of the National Science
Foundation.  Werner's brother Nathan Rosenberg{XE "Rosenberg, Nathan" \r
"Nathan"} was a Naval Officer aide to Harold Brown{XE "Brown, Harold" \r
"Brown"} who was Jimmy Carter{XE "Carter, President Jimmy" \r "Carter"}'s
Secretary of Defense.  Kevin Garvey{XE "Garvey, Kevin" \r "Garvey"} told me
that Werner had fifteen of loyal estoids in the Carter White House.  Werner
was very active with trainings of government people in Washington D.C.  In
fact, Harold Chipman told me that he had taken the est Training with a lot
of his associates when he was a CIA officer.  Carter79 had created Project
Scanate80 for remote-viewing of military targets by psychics.  Werner used
remote-viewing in his training and he also contributed money to SRI for
that project.

Werner had me meet with several Stanford and U.C. Faculty before he set up
the Physics Consciousness Research Group at Esalen with me and Michael
Murphy as co-directors.  Michael arranged all our activities in Big Sur.
Saul Paul Sirag81 was my chief assistant.  Michael arranged for Jean
Lanier{XE "Lanier, Jean" \r "Lanier"} to supply me with money.  Jean, who
resembled Shirley MacLaine82{XE "MacLaine, Shirley" \r "MacLaine"}, was the
widow of the late Chairman of the Board of Stone-Webster Engineering.  Her
current husband was an Episcopal Priest Sidney Lanier{XE "Lanier, Sydney"
\r "Sidney"}.  Sidney was a close friend of the late Bishop Pike{XE "Pike,
Bishop" \r "Pike"}.  He was active in New York off-broadway and also was a
close friend of Jose Ferrer{XE "Ferrer, Jose" \r "Ferrer"} who I resemble.
Jean rented a five bedroom suite for us on top of Nob Hill83. She was a
close friend of Laurance Rockefeller{XE "Rockefeller, Laurance" \r
"Rockefeller"} who would telephone the Nob Hill flat looking for her.

I attended the est April Celebrity Training of 1975.  The list of trainees
included Ellie Coppola, Sterling Hayden, Michael Murphy, Buzz Aldrin, Ted
Ashley, Jerry Rubin, Fred Wolf, Saul Paul Sirag and many others.  Sterling
Hayden quickly walked out calling Werner a "Nazi" and pushing away some
estoids who tried to block his passage.  Michael Murphy was angry at
Werner.  I was sitting with Astronaut Buzz Aldrin who was having a severe
kidney problem.  Werner got all confused when he tried to talk about the
new physics.  He let me explain to the group in ordinary language what he
was trying to say in his hypnotic estspeak.  The trick of est is to seduce
your consciousness by subverting the English language with dominating
psycho-babble.  It was right out of George Orwell's 1984.  The est-training
did get every one high.  It must have been how the SS officers felt after
being indoctrinated as leaders of the Master Race.  I was introduced to
Ellie Coppola during a break in the training.  She had just read Space-Time
and Beyond. Ellie invited Fred Wolf and me to her home at at 2800 Broadway
at 2am after the training.  We met her husband Francis Ford Coppola.  The
first thing Francis said to me was that he did not like Werner Erhard but
that he would not tell his wife what to do.  I was getting suspicious of
Werner especially after I heard the rumor that he said he changed his name
from Jack Rosenberg to Werner Erhard to "give up Jewish weakness for German
strength."

I started to spend a lot of time at the Coppola's house.  I introduced them
to Uri Geller and to French UFO scientist Jacques Vallee84.  I think Steven
Spielberg and George Lucas were there as well that time but I am not sure.
Vallee became technical consultant to Close Encounters of the Third Kind as
a result of that introduction.  Francois Truffaux played the role of
Jacques Vallee in the film.  Ira Einhorn had introduced me to Vallee.
Einhorn and Vallee were working together on a computer network project.

I met Jack Nicholson, Michael Douglas, Milos Forman, Saul Zaentz, and Hans
Syberberg at various parties at the Coppola's.  The meeting with Syberberg
at Francis's showing of Our Hitler is of particular importance as we shall
see later.

I received a phone call from a man named George Koopman85 during one of our
Esalen seminars in 1976.  He asked if he could come to Big Sur.  I said
yes.  Koopman soon became a financial patron of my Ghost Busters86 at
Esalen.  Koopman was a close friend of Dan Akroyd and my group was the
inspiration for the film Ghost Busters.  He provided money through military
contracts with the Air Force and the U.S. Army Tank Command funnelled
through his company Insgroup in Irvine, California.

Koopman was addicted to cocaine and would talk freely when high.  He told
us that he was related to Arthur Krock of the New York Times.  He said that
he had blown the whistle on U. S. Army Intelligence domestic spying to the
New York Times.  Koopman said that he had worked on the "kook desk" for the
Defense Intelligence Agency and that they and the CIA were very interested
in the kind of new physics we were working on.  They were especially
interested in machines that could tell the future87 and in new kinds of
aircraft propulsion systems.  Koopman liked to show how he could open
locked doors with his burglar tools that he always carried in his brief
case.  He showed me a letter from the miltary giving him permission to have
the tools.

 Koopman was very interested in Werner Erhard's tax structure.  I took
Koopman to meet Werner.  Werner was in a room with a large blackboard.  On
the board were several references to "UFOs" and "extra-terrestrial
contacts."  Werner did not seem to trust Koopman.

I found out through one of my girlfriends88 that Koopman succeeded in
spying on the Arica organization.  Koopman, Sirag and I had heard weird
stories from Jan Brewer at Esalen that Arica was started in Chile by high
ranking fugitives from the Third Reich who were masters of the occult.
Many of the regulars at Esalen, including some of our group like Dr. John
Lilly and Claudio Naranjo, had been in the first Arica training in Chile.

Timothy Leary was released from prison.  Leary became part of my group at
Esalen.  Leary was a close friend of Michael Murphy.  George Koopman
arranged for Leary and me to lecture together at the Arthur Young's
Institute in Berkeley.  Koopman spent a lot of money hiring a professional
T.V. crew to record us.  Robert Anton Wilson, Nick Herbert and Saul Paul
Sirag participated in this event.  Koopman became Leary's business manager
and publisher.  Leary's message was SMI2LE (Space Migration Intelligence
Increase Life Extension) which is also the message of this book.

Koopman sabotaged me at Esalen by suddenly breaking his contract and
stopping the cash flow he had committed.  The ostensible reason was that I
had insulted the New Age seminarians at Esalen by calling "idiots and
morons" which I did.  Werner would say much worse in his trainings.
Koopman was very high on cocaine when he confronted me with this supposed
sin.  Koopman would show up at the Cafe Trieste on several occasions years
later.  I surmise that Koopman was ordered by higher ups to cut me out of
the Esalen picture because I was too much of a "loose cannon" that they
could not control.  They replaced me with my assistant Saul Paul Sirag and
with Nick Herbert who continued to run the Esalen seminars.  The former CIA
station chief, Harold Chipman basically confirmed this for me in 1985.  It
may be that Koopman's death in 1989 was no accident. That's just a hunch.
Chipman's death around the same time as Koopman's may also not have been
from natural causes.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!think.com!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!petro2.hsr.no!trondk_l
From: [e-mail] (Lindanger, Trond K.    8-94)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: reply EINSTEINS UNIFIED
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jan 93 10:21:47 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Lines: 6

I've seen a book about the unified field theory at our library. Also read
thar Einstein didn't want to release this work, he meant that we weren't
ready to use the knowledge properly.

Trond K. Lindanger
- Your friend in NORWAY
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3
From: [e-mail] (kevin fisher U)
Subject: Re: the Einstein conspiracy (TM)??
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:27:25 GMT
Lines: 25

Chris Morken ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (kevin fisher U) writes:
: >Can anyone out there provide me with info on the idea I've heard floating
: >around that Einstein actually finished his unified field theory (but, of
: >course, it was covered up by the gov't and is being used in secret UFO
: >experiments or something)??
:
: No, I'm quite confident that Einstein couldn't have finished his Unified
: Theory, because he was wrong about a few major aspects of the theory, like
: for instance he refused to believe in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
: Einsteins's attempt at a theory seemed to work on a large-scale, but fails
: when the normally weak force of gravity becomes very large due to something
: such as a black hole.  Without aceptance of the uncertainty principle he
: could never come up with a Unified Theory.
:
: cmorken
    Another point, I thought he didn't take into account the weak and
strong interactions with his UFT.  I can't see a viable UFT being developed
WITHOUT these important interactions.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fisher  ><>     |  "Thank you.  You can't believe everything you
[e-mail]   |  see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP'
________________________________________________________________________________
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!alfa
From: [e-mail] (glenn durden)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 13:43:39 +1100
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 11

[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Folks: Why is it that when I hear the words moderator, censorship
> I think of Hitler?

Probably because your posts would be the first to die.

.........................................................
glenn durden
[e-mail]  Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
The opinions expressed above are that of the author only.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max
From: [e-mail] (Max Elliot)
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:27:04 GMT
Lines: 24

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas):
>
> Foolish human. Adn why should John's postings incite you to such
> anger? Psychologically, many researchers state that: the state
> of emotional attachment can only come about within the
> perceptive mechanism of the recipient [you] if the recipient
> subconciously finds what had incited him to anger to be true and
> yet still unaccepted by that recipient.

  Yes, if you shout at me that the moon is made of green cheese and
  I am angered, it is simply because I subconciously feel that your
  assertions are true, yet I don't accept them. Of course, how simple.
  I should have guessed. (chortle, guffaw)

> You sir, are wasting as much if not more time by starting
> flames. If you do not like what anyone posts...use your kill
> file. That is what it is for. But instead you choose to rant and
> rave like a 5 year old child screaming for his candy bar...I now
> will use my kill file on you as you have wasted my time.

  Mirror, mirror, on the wall....

  Cheers!
-Max
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:17:10 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) says:
>
>        [e-mail] (Ethan Haslett) writes:
>        Assuming he is not wealthy in the extreme this might be a way
>        for someone to annoy him!  Or quiet him.  Comments?
>
> Bad idea.  If you do not like what John writes, then don't answer
>him.  "Attacking" someone in this manner is very akin to stealing
>his/her credit card and running up charges as "punishment".  It is not
>something I wish to be even remotely associated with.
>
Is he not doing the same by flooding everyones mailbox with his messages?
>Charles
Ethan Haslett
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13452 alt.alien.visitors:12379 sci.skeptic:36677
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!tulane!intruder!goff
From: [e-mail] (Victoria Goff)
Subject: Re: Satans E-mail.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-26865]: intruder.navo.navy.mil
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: POPS Facility Managment
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:23:15 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
|> -------------
|>
|> At the time of your rebellion, you made the proclamation that you would
|> be like God and your throne would ascend to heaven.  You took 1/3 of
|> the angels in your rebellion.  However, you were cast out, falling from
|> heaven like lightning, you and your angels.  When you saw what had
|> happened, did you not realize that you did wrong?  Was there no place
|> in your heart to admit your sin and repent in hopes that God might be
|> merciful?  Look at the redeemed.  They, too, have been guilty of rebellion.
|> Yet they admitted there wrong and humbly repented.  Why couldn't you
|> do the same thing?  I know, I know, you hate the redeemed.  But I thought
|> I would still ask.
|>

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from
the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that
he might destroy the works of the devil.  I John 4:8



--
-Victoria Day Goff           Disclaimer: my opinions are my own.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:47:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 14


    [e-mail] writes:
    Is he not doing the same by flooding everyones mailbox with
    his messages?

... no, he is not.  He is posting messages to an electronic newsgroup
which *anyone* may post to; the only limitations of which are purely
technical ones (implicit in that some news servers cannot handle
extremely large messages), and which do not apply to the number of
messages posted.  As such he is excercising the right of free speech.
My suggestion is to either debate or ignore his posts.  "Mail-bombing"
is not a civilized response.

Charles
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13453 alt.alien.visitors:12381 sci.skeptic:36686
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:00:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the European Astral Train
never got out of the planning stage. Maybe Paul M. will let us know.
Victoria you are a good person. Don't give up on my. There may be
hope for me yet.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 07:24:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.
Lines: 14

[e-mail] (James Porter) writes:

> Is anyone is Alt.aliens seeing this post?  I dont think my USENET echos are g
>
> james
 It is making it here to the end of the this planet we call Terra.


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  [e-mail]           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: [phone]       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Scott Erickson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: i have a question
Date: 7 Jan 1993 16:36:38 -0600
Organization: University of Confused Thought
Lines: 46
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Scott Erickson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu


Previously [e-mail] wrote:
>Dear Folks: I should have stated that the man was one armed (he had one
>arm missing) in my last postings. The planet Venus is a very hot place
>and not hospitable to humans in the third dimension, but in the 4th
>dimension it is quite a nice place. Humans can visit there is their
>astral form and the space people can change a human's molecturlar structure
>so that we can exist there also. It takes about a two week conditioning
>period.
>John Winston.

I am so confused, I guess I have not hit my head against the wall enough.
Could you explain the 3rd and 4th dimension thing again.
Also, for who does it take two weeks, the space people or astral humans?
Also, could you, if you have the information, please explain the molecular
structure change process, for I am interested in visiting other places soon.

Psst, don't tell anyone that I have a antigravity spaceship that I stole from
some drunk aliens.  They parked it outside of the Anchor bar in Superior,
Wisconsin.  When Ed and I stopped by to have a drink, Ed noticed some strange
atmospheric fluctuations in a nearby parking lot.  I did not see anything,
but Ed had just had brain surgery to remove a junk of meteorite that got
lodged in his head.  He insisted that he could see something behind the air
fluctuations, so I said lets go look.  As we walked closer I could smell lots
of old and warm beer, so I knew we had a bunch of drunk aliens on our hands.
(You see, aliens love warm Old Milwaukee beer while they suck the bodily
fluid out of some cow or hapless pedestrian.)

Ed got the idea of stealing the space craft.  He said, "Let's get the tire
iron and beat the shit out them drunk aliens and steal their spaceship!" I
thought that was a good idea, so we went back to my truck. Ed grabbed the
tire iron and I grabbed my aluminum softball bat.  Oh, man you should have
the expressions on the faces of the aliens.  It certainly looked strange, but
then, all of their expressions look strange. I did not realize how much fun
it was hitting and beating on aliens was.  Their heads exploded when you hit
them.  When the police found the dead aliens, they said it looked like
someone went hogwild smashing watermelons.

Anyway, we managed to steal the spaceship.  I have it hidden out behind the
outhouse.  Anybody that might see the atmospheric fluctuations will just
think it is just the outhouse giving off gas from the rotting shit.


--
[e-mail]                                         Scott Erickson

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!tdenbo
From: [e-mail] (Tom Denbo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: CLINTON'S INTERNET ACCOUNT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:03:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services
Lines: 2

Now HERE is the perfect place to post Billy's internet address.  He may
turn out to be even more alien than George :)
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:41:09 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) says:
>... no, he is not.  He is posting messages to an electronic newsgroup
>which *anyone* may post to; the only limitations of which are purely
>technical ones (implicit in that some news servers cannot handle
>extremely large messages), and which do not apply to the number of
>messages posted.  As such he is excercising the right of free speech.

I must differ here.  Here, there is a priviledge of posting.  InterNet was
was created for educational institutions originally and that was the
philosophy under which people used it.  Then companies started asking for
access to it because they saw the potential InterNet had (I think there was
an article on InterNet in the Communications of the ACM a while back).
Therefore I don't subscibe to the fact that it is a right of free speech
because of the fact that he is using a service to post his material.
If I became abusive of InterNet by using its resources for frivilous reasons
(as I think John Winston does with a majority of his posts), my student
account would be either suspended or deleted.  With John Winston, his only
limitation is money.  True I do pay for tuition and fees that contribute
to the upkeep of the computer center but its function is to provide services
for educators and students and NOT to make a profit.

>My suggestion is to either debate or ignore his posts.  "Mail-bombing"
>is not a civilized response.

True.  However, my comments were only an observation and not a call to arms.
John Winston appears to be uncivilized by posting masses of messages that
sometimes are of little relevance to this newsgroup (as this thread of
messages might be).  Debating JW only encourages him, ignoring so far has
not worked.  So I suppose I should give it time.

>
>Charles

Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13454 alt.alien.visitors:12386 sci.skeptic:36695
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Pit Bulls.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:06:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 22

Yes John....at least I understand even if I have spoken
against you.....you must realize that if you choose to wake
people up...when they finally do wake up and face that
conflict in what IS real and what they PERCEIVE to be
real..they will first get angry at the person who woke them
up.

This is something that you and Don and others who do the same
thing must face and accept.....you wont make any friends in
teh short run...but if we survive the long run (hmm sounds
like a title to a good song there ! ;^}) both of you will have
hundreds of friends!

Len

BTW: Thanx for not posting more Weekly World Elephant Tampon
material!
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:48:33 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:

>
>Ethan Haslett
>[e-mail]

Dear Ethan,

get a life.
Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3
From: [e-mail] (kevin fisher U)
Subject: Re: reply EINSTEINS UNIFIED
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:08:06 GMT
Lines: 19

Lindanger, Trond K.    8-94 ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I've seen a book about the unified field theory at our library. Also read
: thar Einstein didn't want to release this work, he meant that we weren't

: ready to use the knowledge properly.
:
: Trond K. Lindanger
: - Your friend in NORWAY


Just interested...any idea what this (these?) book(s) are called?



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fisher  ><>     |  "Thank you.  You can't believe everything you
[e-mail]   |  see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP'
________________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!dementia
From: [e-mail] (Diane Atkinson)
Subject: I am disappointed...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:48:51 GMT
Lines: 18


I thought I might find intelligent debate here--you know, presentations
of facts by both sides,  discussions, perhaps even a little more in
the formation of explanations in the whys and hows of extraterrestrials.
Instead all I find is petty bickering, opinion and people bashing,  "Gee,
look at this story--Weren't these saps dumb?" articles, and a lot of
"There's no way anything but my opinion is correct" stuff.

I had hoped for more....

Diane Atkinson
[e-mail]

--
*"Never mind that noise you heard.      LA!*                    Diane Atkinson*
*It's just the beast under your bed,    /  *         [e-mail]*
*in your closet, in your head"    ___^o^___*      "Jafar, Jafar, he's our man.*
*          --"Enter Sandman"(Metallica)    *       If he can't do it, GREAT!!"*
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Peter T.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ozzie or Aussie
Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:22:08 GMT
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au
Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth) says:
>
>
>I'm American, so don't flame if I'm mistaken, but shouldn't that be
>'Aussie' (for Austrailian) rather than 'Ozzie'?
>
>:-)
>
>simon
>
Ozzie, if I'm correct, is a term used by Australians only, ie slang.
Presumably the original article was written by a "Skip" {slang for Australian, usually of Anglosaxan decent}
Therefore it is ok to use the term: Ozzie or even Oz.
Peter T.
PS. If you ever meet an Australian, don't call him/her a skip, he/she may  be offended by that.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Peter T.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: George Adamski-Fraud?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:01:34 GMT
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 4
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au
Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN

In a number of postings I have come accross statements that George Adamski is a fraud.
As I have a book of his on order, can someone inform me as to why some see him as such?
Thankyou
Peter T.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!zikzak.apana.org.au!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Peter T.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Pleiadian problems
Date: 8 Jan 1993 06:09:18 GMT
Organization: Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne Australia
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au
Newsreader: MS Windows WinVN

A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they have "problems at home" that
they must attend to.
Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be?
Thankyou
Peter T.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!machine!timesink!mikebo
From: [e-mail] (Michael Borowiec)
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: HAM Radio Station N9EUZ, Naperville, IL
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:22:27 GMT
Lines: 45

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) says:
>>... no, he is not.  He is posting messages to an electronic newsgroup
>>which *anyone* may post to; the only limitations of which are purely
>>technical ones (implicit in that some news servers cannot handle
>>extremely large messages), and which do not apply to the number of
>>messages posted.  As such he is excercising the right of free speech.
>
>I must differ here.  Here, there is a priviledge of posting.  InterNet was
>was created for educational institutions originally and that was the
>philosophy under which people used it.  Then companies started asking for
>access to it because they saw the potential InterNet had (I think there was
>an article on InterNet in the Communications of the ACM a while back).
>Therefore I don't subscibe to the fact that it is a right of free speech
>because of the fact that he is using a service to post his material.
>If I became abusive of InterNet by using its resources for frivilous reasons
>(as I think John Winston does with a majority of his posts), my student
>account would be either suspended or deleted.  With John Winston, his only
>limitation is money.  True I do pay for tuition and fees that contribute
>to the upkeep of the computer center but its function is to provide services
>for educators and students and NOT to make a profit.
>
This poster is obviously confusing the Usenet News service with the
"Internet". The "Internet" is a collection of independent, but
interconnected TCP/IP networks. The Usenet News is one of the many
applications that run on top of the infrastructure provided by this
"Internet". I run a Usenet site, yet I have no direct connection.

Many Usenet sites get their news feed via UUCP, and until recently
most Usenet traffic was passed this way. Granted, most of the traffic
that ends up here now traverses the "Internet" many times - criss-
crossing the country. But the entire "Internet" is not the publicly
funded ARPAnet which you are actually refering to. Large sections of
the "Internet" are for-profit businesses such as PSI which get no
government money. Your, my and "John Winston"s tax dollars help
subsidize sections of the "Internet". "Wasting bandwidth" is a
fallicy... as if the government were being billed for each packet!

It's a shame that some schools and businesses censor Usenet like
some Orwellian "big brother". Some people just aren't happy unless
they are controlling someone else. As long as a person is not being
abusive, threatening or obscene I would never presume to try to
censor them. Neither should you. Filter his posts if he pisses you off...
- Mike
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13459 alt.alien.visitors:12394 sci.skeptic:36713
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Bolivian Encounter Part 3.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 01:51:17 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 94

Subject: Bolivian Encounter. Part 3.
  This is a continuation of the information about a person coming in contact
with some space  people in Bolivia.
..."And  now that we could talk with one another, I was asked if I could
understand and remember well when they, these men, explained different
things to me. I answered affirmatively, explaining that I would write it all
down in shorthand at once, if this were allowed, because I was accustomed to
this. One answered that this woud be very good, but what was short-hand
writing. I wondered about the question but answered him, for which he
thanked me. I got out my shorthand book and pencil and began to take down a
true account of all that was said among us.  Therefore I can give you a true
account, word by word, of our conversation. You will be astonished and
unbelieving as I was myself, but let me give it to you all in order as I
have written it down:"

"I am Kahun", one of the men said.
"I am called Athar:, was the pronouncement of the other.
"My name is Horst Fenner", I explained to them.
"You live here in the wild land? Athar asked.
"No, I am only a tourist here, as I am from Germany."
"What is a tourist"" Athar asked me.
"A visitor", was my answer.
"Then Athar and I are tourists", said Kahun
"How shall I understand this? was my question.
"We are not from this world, which you call Earth," answered Kahun.
"How shall  I understand this now?" I asked in astonishment.
"We are from the stars," answered Kahun, "We are not creatures from this
world".
"You want to make a joke with me don't you?" I asked, as I really believed
they  were joking.
"No, we come from the stars you call Proxima Centauri", was the answer of
Kahun. "That is the next solar system to this one, a distance of  arounde 50
billion kilometers according to you distance measurement."
"This can't be, but that's utopical", I meant.
 (It is easier when I just put the names of the speaker before each quote, so
I will write it this way.)

Kahun; We  do not joke.
Horst: Then you must be star-men.
Kahun: So we are, if you want to call us that.
Horst; I cannot believe this.
Athar; We do not speak untruth.
Horst; Shall I really believe this of you?
Kahun; It is the truth.
Horst: This is unblievable; what are you doing here?
Kahun: We often come to this Earth. We observe the events here and consider
the development of the human beings. Unfortunately they are very much behind
in their religious development because of political intrigues.  The humans
of   Earth could cause very much mischief by their wrong development and
struggles for power which may even result in other more distant star system
becoming involved. Because of this we come to Earth and observe and to
prevent, if necessay, worse things from developing.
Horst; This sounds quite unbelievable.
Athar; We speak the truth.
Horst; If you really speak the truth, what will you be able to do if something
really goes wrong?
Kahun: Have no hesitation, we are not alone. Besides our Centaurians are still
different  other space-races on this Earth. Some of these originate from
much greater distances than we.
Horst; This all  sounds utopian to me . What do you intend to do  against the
development of Earth? You cannot yet change all by power. This would lead to
a war. And wherefrom are the other starmen?
Kahun; I have explained to you that we are telling the truth. It is not
utopical. As well we don't want to take any measure against the Earth. For
this we have no justificaton, especially not by power, which is interdicted
for us. So you need not expect and fear a war from our side. We have many
friends on Earth with whom we have contact, and who operate under our
advices and orders in a peaceful manner for the benefit of all Earth human
beings. They spread the knowledge of our existencce and word about our
mission. You name these, your fellow creatures, contactees. They work in our
order and are attacked with enmity because of that. One accuses them of
lying and deceit, against which they, unfortunately, cannot defend
themselves. It is also unfortunate that among these good contactee elements
are others who lie and deecieve and make jokes, by which our mission is not
helped. The more important contactees are often exposed to greater enmities
and even have their lives threatened. There is a man who was educated as a
prophet of the presence, whose mission is most important, because he must
bring a new the real lessons of truth toward Earth-human beings. This is the
lesson which you call the lesson of Spirit. These lessons were transmitted
to him from very high spheres of spirit, in connection with space-races
coming from the starsigns Lyria, the Pleiades and the DAL-Universe. Besides
these there are staying on Earth still different other cosmic races who come
here regualarly.
Important missions are performed by these space-races who belong to the
Pleiadian star group, because they are the distant descendents of  the
forefathers of the Earth human beings, for which reason this great mission
belongs to their fied of operation. These cosmic races maintain three
different stations on the Earth. They are under the leadership of one called
Quetzal. She is a daughter of the leader of the Pleiadian spacefleet. An
earth contactee of the Pleiadian group is a man about 40 years old who lives
in Switzerland, and is known as Billy.
This is my JW talking now. Billy sounds like Don Showen's friend.
End Part 3.
John Winston.
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13460 alt.alien.visitors:12395 sci.skeptic:36714
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Satan Information.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 01:53:06 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 19

1>+
Dear Folks: Some more things
have come up that are going to
have an effect of the operation of the Astral Train. I have recently gone on
the evening shift and am working from 4 PM till 12 PM. I do have sunday and
monday nights off so maybe something can be worked out.
  Let me be truthful now and state that many of you are concerned with me
sending E-mail to Satan . Let me now confess that I realize that this person
who says he is Satan is not really Satan. The person who was once Lucifer I
think is alive and well and living in sunny, southern Calif. and he a good
person trying to undo what he did in the past.
    As R. Nixon once said, "I just wanted to make it perfectly clear."
John Winston.
John Winston.
GwG

B>p8GI
B
0Roman 10cpi
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13461 alt.alien.visitors:12396 sci.skeptic:36715
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u16244
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:18:42 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Satans E-mail.
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Lines: 204

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John Emery)
says:
>
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Ralph 'Hairy' Moonen) writes:
>
>Satan,  I have been quite curious about you and have always wished that
>some of my questions about you could be answered.  Now that I have the
>opportunity, here it goes.  You were once known as Lucifer, the light
>bearer, a great guardian cherub, perfect in beauty, clothed with every
>precious stone.  I could just imagine you reflecting God's glory.  My

  Let me tell you something.  God is notoriously lax in the area of
presonal hygiene.  Some of those jems were jammed up my nose to ward
off the smell!

>question is why did you rebel against God?  Why did your heart become
>proud on account of your beauty which God gave you in the first place?
>You had an eternal paradise within the presence of God, why did you
>throw it away?  I've always pondered that.

  Simply because that wasn't the smell.  Why do you humans cast off
your evil dictators?  Do you think god is good because you read it in
some stupid book?  Are you that naive?

>
>At the time of your rebellion, you made the proclamation that you would
>be like God and your throne would ascend to heaven.  You took 1/3 of

  Not quite.  I wanted to take his place and try to set things straight
from how bad he's botched things.  Listen.  God is perfect and so are
we angels, supposedly( har-de-har-har ).  If that was the case, how
could we revolt?  How could we overcome eachother?  Why would we want
to?  It doesn't make sense.  God's no more perfect than anyone else,
just a little more powerful.

>the angels in your rebellion.  However, you were cast out, falling from
>heaven like lightning, you and your angels.  When you saw what had
>happened, did you not realize that you did wrong?  Was there no place

  Yeah, I didn't shoot god in the head when I had the chance.  Shows
me for being a nice guy, you know?

>in your heart to admit your sin and repent in hopes that God might be
>merciful?  Look at the redeemed.  They, too, have been guilty of rebellion.
>Yet they admitted there wrong and humbly repented.  Why couldn't you
>do the same thing?

 God has no more mercy than adolf, hitler, who sits right next to god
in heaven.  Get a clue.

>
>You have continued do to such horrible things.

  Like what?  And don't give me biblical propaganda, it's hardly
an unbaised source.

  Why?  You know that
>us humans have a tendacy to become proud and corrupt and evil.  Yet
>you have continued to tempt leaders and people in power to use their
>power for evil.  You have wispered to, suggested to, and convinced men of
>power to lust for more and more.  This has led to many a war resulting
>in death and famine.  Your suggestions seem to work so often as seen
>by the scandals, the thefts, the murders, and various other destructions.

  Did you see me do these things?  No.  Do you have recordings,
sane witnesses, reports, or anything?  I thought not.  If god is really
so omnipotent and I'm so weak, do you think he'd ley me do these
things?  Get a clue!

>
>But the curious thing is that you don't stop with the big guys.  You
>seem to go after the average human: the poor guy who started out
>with casual drugs is now in the gutter looking for his next fix.

  That's caused by your rediculous legal system, with interference
from the chirches, and the sick society mentally crippled by religion.
Where do you see me involved in this?

>And oh the many marriages that have been destroyed.  And yes, my heart
>moans when I think of the innocent women who have been raped.

  And so, so many of them by christians.  It it sad.

>What about the gangs whom you have wispered you messages of hate to?
>These young lads, some of whom are killed and maimed.  I could go
>on and on.  What is it that pleases you about such stuff?

  Yes, and such a suprising number of these regular church attendees.
Why not kill when you will be forgiven?

>
>You know ever since you convinced that first family to disobey God,
>we humans have sure made a mess of things.  We have continued to be

  You sure have.. If you'd just forgot about god and gotten busy being
tolerant and building a strong siciety, you'd be fine.  But you had to
think of this god person, and let the churches lull you into apathy
so the state could turn you into obiedent sheep.

>selfish and prideful in so much.  We have followed in your footsteps
>in going our own way and turning away from God.  And you would think
>that God would just let us go.  But He sent the Savior.  I might think
>that perhaps you would have said  "fine, God's trying to win back
>these rebels, I'll just stay out of it".  But no. When the Savior was
>born, you tried to kill him.  Although you failed, in the process

  Here's a newsflash.  Remember jesus's last words?  His father really
DID forsake him.

>you killed every male child in that vicinity of Bethlehem.  How could
>you do such a thing?

  I wasn't anywhere neat the place.  And again, if your god is so
omnipotent, why would he let me?

>
>And when you saw that you had failed, why didn't you just let things
>be?  Instead you tried a different tactic.  O how you tried to talk Jesus
>out of His mission, tempting Him in every way those 40 days in the
>desert.

  Actually, he was suffering from heat exhaustion and hallucinating.

>last attempt in the garden of Gethsemane also failed.  How amazing
>was Jesus' resistance to givng in, even to the point of sweating
>blood!

  Sweating blood is impossible.  A person would die.  And i don't
mean to sound like an echo, but if this kid is really god-on-earth
and sinless, would he have problems resisting me?

 Then He was crucified, The Ultimate Eternal Atonement was
>made.

  Eh?  I never followed the logic here.
  1) Kill someone
  2) Everything gets better.

>
>What was your reaction when on the third day He rose from the dead?

  Never happened.  I was having coffee with him, I can vouch for his
whereabouts.  Remember, god requires blind stupidity, I mean faith in
him.  Jesus was a smart fellow, and of course didn't have that ( read
that bible thing for evidence ).  So regardless of what kind of life
he lead, he died like everyone else.

>It seemed like from that point on nothing could stop the people
>from returning to God.  First it was 120, next it was 3000 and now
>throughout the centuries multitudes and multitudes have been returning,
>more than could be counted.  I know, I know you don't like to be

  More than will be taken.  Read revelations.  Only a few thousand
persons will be allowed to enter heaven.  And only members of the
tribes of israel.  Are you jewish?  Wellll......

>
>About this lake of fire destination, I would be curious how you

  I don't throw anyone into the lake.  God and that pervert peter
do that, if the person doen not kis god's ass perperly or else if
god is in a bad mood.  ( he usually is! ).

>respond to this.  Have you not realized that evil must eventually
>cease?

  No, I don't, though I wish it would.  Can you provide evidence or
logical proof of this?  I'm interested in such a claim.

> Don't you realize what lies before you?

  Looks like a computer terminal.

>What about love?
>Is love really that bad of a thing?

  Sure ain't.  Sure glad I got adam and eve to eat from the tree, or
humans would never have known love.

>Is feeding the hungry and
>taking care of the sick really something you should oppose?  And

  Nope.  Why don't you go out and do this instead of annoying me?

>what about these followers of Jesus?  Do you really hate them as
>much as it is written.

  No, I just feel sorry for the poor, stupid, mislead fools.

>It would seem so by the way many have
>responded.

  Please explain.  i don't follow you here.

>  [ Absolute bullshit deleted, hey, that would remove the whole note!]

Yours in darkness...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for
protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson, 1814

SEND E-MAIL TO : [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13462 alt.alien.visitors:12397
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Cadiz Part 2.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 02:19:44 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Folks: Soon I will try to put down some information about
Mitchell Caverns and Mr. Dorn's underground river that is found
near Cadiz, Calif. in the same general area where the Underground
City is exactly under Cima, Calif.
John Winston.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: i have a question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 02:41:05 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: alt
References: <1993Jan2.4962.12393@dosgate> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Question Askers: I'll try to get the answers to your question
soon if I can get the time to do it.
John Winston
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ppontis.oit.iupui.edu!IPAP400
From: [e-mail] (Pat Pontis)
Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Integrated Technologies IUPUI
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:52:07 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26
X-Posted-From: ppontis.oit.iupui.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:05:45 CST
>From: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: John Winston is not a real person?
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
>says:
>>Cost is about $20/month, currently. They charge a lot for storage
>>however, which means that if you get a lot of mail, the cost can go
>>way up. They also have a large PD/Shareware library and a graphics
>Hmm.  Very interesting.  So if John Winston gets a large amount of mail,
>his monthly fees would skyrocket?  Assuming he is not wealthy in the extreme
>this might be a way for someone to annoy him!  Or quiet him.  Comments?
>>library which includes lots of GIFS etc...
>>
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>[e-mail]
>>
>>
>Ethan Haslett
>[e-mail]
This is so CHILDISH.  Why don't all you JW haters just talk to yourselves.
JW is fun, positive, and complementary.  We could use more of that instead
of a lot of bitching.  I like John.  He makes me laugh and feel good.
Long live John Winston.  Pat
Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:12400 talk.bizarre:87893 alt.religion.kibology:5628
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Sacred Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.fan.john-winston
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:50:07 GMT
Lines: 3


Elvis Aaron Presley, b. Jan 8, 1935.

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: George Adamski-Fraud?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:23:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 57
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter T.) writes:
> In a number of postings I have come accross statements that George Adamski is a fraud.
> As I have a book of his on order, can someone inform me as to why some see him as such?
> Thankyou
> Peter T.

Quoting from Margaret Sach's UFO Encyclopedia (UK edition, Corgi Books, 1981):

"In the late 1940's Adamski wrote a novel entitled 'Pioneers of Space', about
an imaginary trip to the moon, Venus and Mars. He listed the book with the
Library of Congress for copyright purposes as a work of fiction.

....on November 20, 1952 Adamski went into the desert accompanied by (several
other people).... After spotting a cigar shaped UFO, the others waited by car
while Adamski went into a small canyon. There he purportedly met with a
Venusian.......


Several of the witnesses to Adamski's famous first encounter in the desert
later recanted their stories.

Donald Menzel.....claimed that the object in Adamski's photograph is clearly
idenifiable as a well known type of chicken brooder....

Frank Edwards came to the conclusion .... (the photo was) the top of a
cannister type vacuum cleaner. "


I never met Adamski (not old enough) so any info I have is just second (or
third) hand. I have not made a special study of Adamski's claims as there
seem to be too many unanswered questions.

I thought I read somewhere that Adamski had offered the story of his Flying
Saucer trips to editor Ray Palmer as fiction for use by Amazing Stories
magazine. (This might have been an early version of Pioneers of Space?).

The content of his very sucessful Flying Saucer books is very similar to
his (less successful?) work of fiction.

Then there are the doubts about the photos. Whilst it could be argued that
Menzel was a debunker of UFOs, so of course he would have an answer, the
same cannot be said for Edwards, yet even Edwards seems to be casting doubt
on the photos. Then there are the witnesses who later decided they really
were not witnesses at all.

There are just too many questions hanging over the story. What can you believe
and what not? We no longer have the author to supply answers.

Just my 1.2 pence worth

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!peg!golight
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Date: 09 Jan 93 01:10 EST
Subject: Re: Ozzie UFOs
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Nf-ID: #R:[e-mail]:-851797702:peg:422800036:000:114
Nf-From: peg.UUCP!golight    Jan  9 01:10:00 1993
Lines: 7


Right ya'r Peter T.  .... 'Gotta Live It Ta Know It'

Brightside up taya mate.

Regards, Photon  Melbourne Oz...

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!tdenbo
From: [e-mail] (Tom Denbo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I am disappointed...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services
Lines: 14

[e-mail] (Diane Atkinson) writes:
>
> I thought I might find intelligent debate here--you know, presentations
> of facts by both sides,  discussions, perhaps even a little more in
> the formation of explanations in the whys and hows of extraterrestrials.
> Instead all I find is petty bickering, opinion and people bashing,  "Gee,
> look at this story--Weren't these saps dumb?" articles, and a lot of
> "There's no way anything but my opinion is correct" stuff.
>
> I had hoped for more....

I agree completely!

Guess this is a subject that's too heavy for UseNet lightweights!
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: I am disappointed...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:30:41 GMT
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Diane Atkinson) writes:
>
> I thought I might find intelligent debate here--you know, presentations
> of facts by both sides,  discussions, perhaps even a little more in
> the formation of explanations in the whys and hows of extraterrestrials.
> Instead all I find is petty bickering, opinion and people bashing,  "Gee,
> look at this story--Weren't these saps dumb?" articles, and a lot of
> "There's no way anything but my opinion is correct" stuff.
>
> I had hoped for more....
>
> Diane Atkinson
> [e-mail]


Occasionally we get into discussions above all the bickering. What it needs
is somebody to start the ball rolling.

Also posted today was a message from somebody asking why people thought
George Adamski was a fraud. I have returned the information I have come
across and no doubt others will do likewise, so we could get a discussion
going here.

In the past I have suggested that people present evidence for and against
extraterrestrials visiting us. This has come up with very little response
other than a few idiots telling me they are posting on behalf of the aliens
who are watching me - big deal. There are a few of us around Diane who are
interested in serious discussion, hang-in there

Steve

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13463 alt.alien.visitors:12405 sci.skeptic:36719
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!yvax.byu.edu!cunyvm!e03si
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Zen And Dannyism
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 09:48:35 EST
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 13

                   WHAT DO YOU THINK?

   "Every Everyday fact
          of Science or Common Sense
    is a Window
          into the Unknown Source
    of All Things."
                                             Cyberpunk Pouggie
                                             January 8th, 1993
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]
Keeper ot the Danny Pouget On-going
Biography archival effort.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!alpha.ces.cwru.edu!oldham
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Oldham)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Old patent on gravitational force field
Date: 8 Jan 1993 15:17:36 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Lines: 34
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

You all know about the patent for "Method and apparatus for generating a
secondary gravitational force field" by Henry W. Wallace Dec 14, 1971.
It is patent number 3,626,605.

I am looking for some discussion on an anti-gravity wave oscillator crystal.

There have been a number of articles written by people that have tapped the
psychic world about a crystal that could generate beams of energy to propel objects about the earth during times of old. See books by Edgar Cayce A.R.E.

The input to the crystal was sun light and the output was some kind of a beam
that was directed to other smaller crystals.

My guess is that it is a carbon based crystal in the shape of an octahedral.
   .
  /|\
  ---
  \|/
   .

From the current work being done with diamond based semi-conductors using low
pressure and low temperature it would seem that it is possible to grow such a
crystal.

There is also an interesting note from Hanna-Maria's Universe.

" Weightless is possible for objects having mass. This object must have some
 kind cover like "mirror" is. Weightless is achieved when object oscillates
 continuously between world and anti-world. Object is then totally isolated
 from gravity interaction."

Any help or comments would be appreciated.

dano:

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3
From: [e-mail] (kevin fisher U)
Subject: Re: I am disappointed...
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:24:48 GMT
Lines: 19

Diane Atkinson ([e-mail]) wrote:
:
: I thought I might find intelligent debate here--you know, presentations
: of facts by both sides,  discussions, perhaps even a little more in
: the formation of explanations in the whys and hows of extraterrestrials.
: Instead all I find is petty bickering, opinion and people bashing,  "Gee,
: look at this story--Weren't these saps dumb?" articles, and a lot of
: "There's no way anything but my opinion is correct" stuff.
:
: I had hoped for more....
: j1G
Well, stick around, SOMETIMES some really good stuff DOES show up...you just
have to tailor your kill file right and have a bit of patience..:>

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fisher  ><>     |  "Thank you.  You can't believe everything you
[e-mail]   |  see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP'
________________________________________________________________________________
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6
From: [e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moderated Group/John Winston
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:02:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Whoa Mike --

In reply to your message 12327 about privileges, idiots, and kill
files:

Your argument about privilege is specious; if you think it makes
sense, well, good for you.  But it's neither cogent nor convincing.

As for being unable to control the drivel level, you should go back
and check some of the messages on setting up and running a _moderated_
group.  You may learn something.

Again, try reading the current messagges before you mouth off -- a
good many people don't have the kill-file facility, and ignoring
semantic static simply doesn't work unless every person on the net
cooperates.  Furthermore, what could possibly be wrong with, as a
last resort, starting an alternate, moderated group elsewhere?
--
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Chris Morken)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: reply EINSTEINS UNIFIED
Date: 8 Jan 1993 09:51:40 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

[e-mail] (kevin fisher U) writes: [abreviated]
>Lindanger, Trond K.    8-94 ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: I've seen a book about the unified field theory at our library.
>Just interested...any idea what this (these?) book(s) are called?

I can't say as I know the names of those books, but a book that should be
read by all interested in the Unified Field Theory, or any aspect of space
and time is "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking.
--
[e-mail]
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!smg6
From: [e-mail] (Stanley M. Golem)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ozzie or Aussie
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:29:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


If anyone cares, I knew several Australian expatriots in Japan, and
each mentioned at one time or another that the word was spelled
"Aussie" but pronounced "Ozzie."
--
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!gateway
From: [e-mail] (Jim Atwell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ozzie UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 00:00:02
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 38

Hello Simon,

In a message to All <03 Jan 93 10:48> [e-mail] wrote:

 Sb> From: [e-mail] (Simon E. Booth)
 Sb> Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

 Sb> I'm American,

That's OK, I forgive you for that.  :-)   (he he he!)

 Sb> so don't flame if I'm mistaken, but shouldn't that be
 Sb> 'Aussie' (for Austrailian) rather than 'Ozzie'?

You're quite correct really. However, "Ozzie" is also widely
accepted here. Particularly when conversing with people from
overseas.  The spelling "Ozzie" is closer phoneticaly to the
correct pronunciation,  O-ZZ-EE (as in mozzie, (do you call
mosquitos mozzies over there?)), as opposed to the much loathed
(over here!) mispronunciation, O-SS-EE (as in posse).

But...  you didn't say weather you wanted to read about Australian
UFOs! Since you replied, I shall assume YES!

I have had several positive replies, so prepare all, to be
besieged with UFO info from Australia.

Regards,
          Jim Atwell          |  UFO Research (SA) Inc.
                              |  PO Box 281
          Fidonet             |  Blair Athol SA 5084
          3:800/851           |  Australia

___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

 * Origin: Biz-Nice! S.Oz Business BBS! 4 Lines 08-269 7029/7809 (3:800/851)

Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:48:56 CST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Conclusions RE:John Winston
Lines: 20

I now realize that I have contributed enough comments (or garbage as
some people may view it) and have come to the conclusion that:
1) Those who are interested in a moderated group should create one.
   Those who hate moderated groups can stay here if they so choose.
   A code of conduct could be drawn up such that material that is
   relevant to the discussion of UFOs, aliens, etc. be accepted
   and nonrelevant material (such as flames, 2 liners, etc) be
   rejected.  Again, those who hate this arrangement would not be
   at all forced to participate in this newsgroup.
2) Some people like John Winston's comments. So be it.
3) Some people don't but agree that it is his right to do this.
   So be it.
4) Personnally, I will publicly ignore irrelevant posts to this
   group because I think they deter worthwhile conversation of what
   this group is supposedly discussing.
5) I will not post any more articles on this subject.
Thanks for your comments on my suggestions/comments.
Thanks for your patience.
Ethan Haslett
[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: George Adamski-Fraud?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:38:22 GMT
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter T.) writes:
>> In a number of postings I have come accross statements that George Adamski is a fraud.
>> As I have a book of his on order, can someone inform me as to why some see him as such?
>> Thankyou
>> Peter T.
>

>Frank Edwards came to the conclusion .... (the photo was) the top of a
>cannister type vacuum cleaner. "
>
>
>Then there are the doubts about the photos. Whilst it could be argued that
>Menzel was a debunker of UFOs, so of course he would have an answer, the
>same cannot be said for Edwards, yet even Edwards seems to be casting doubt
>on the photos. Then there are the witnesses who later decided they really
>were not witnesses at all.
>
>There are just too many questions hanging over the story. What can you believe
>and what not? We no longer have the author to supply answers.

>
>Steve.

I liked Steve's post, and I though I would throw a little fuel on the fire
here...

I went to the Best of World UFO Congress last year, and Bob Brown the promoter,
had quit a bit of movie footage of Adamski playing with a saucer. It was
incredible footage, to say the least. He could have faked it, yes, but it
had all the classic signs of being a real beam ship (3 small lobes on the
bottom, similar to Billy Mier and others have photographed).

And the area that Adamski claims to have contacted ET's is rife with UFO's
and still is. There are few better places in the world to see a UFO than
the high desert of CA. So he has all that going for him in my view.

I have not looked into Adamski completely, and would like to see posts from
those of you that have. But I know that Wendle Stevens and Bob Brown have
made intensive investigations, and found that there is much more to the man
than pure hoax. I'm the first to admit the guy was not a striaght arrow; he
may have lied about some things, etc. He may not have always given the
whole truth, but to write him off as pure BS is really ignoring what true
experiences he did have, and the knowledge that can be gleaned from his
experiences.

Have others out there seen the movie footage? I would be interested to hear
what you thought of it. It had the classic signs to me: the ship bobbed up
and down, which contactees have been told is normal when hovering in an
anti-gravity field within the earths atmousphere, etc.

Jeff-


Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:13467 alt.alien.visitors:12414 sci.skeptic:36736
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath
From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Zen And Dannyism
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:58:51 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
|>                    WHAT DO YOU THINK?
|>
|>    "Every Everyday fact
|>           of Science or Common Sense
|>     is a Window
|>           into the Unknown Source
|>     of All Things."
|>                                              Cyberpunk Pouggie
|>                                              January 8th, 1993
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> [e-mail]
|> Keeper ot the Danny Pouget On-going
|> Biography archival effort.

When I replace the terms that are undefined with variables, I get
the sentence:

   "Every X is a Y."  (which might be simplified further to 'X == Y', or even
                       to'X')

IMHO: trivial, pointless, and a waste of bandwidth.

Why don't you try to say something with some content.

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp
From: [e-mail] (Jeff)
Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BeHereNow
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:46:20 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter T.) writes:
>A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they have "problems at home" that
>they must attend to.
>Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be?
>Thankyou
>Peter T.

I would be interested to hear about your sources.

Jeff-

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!infonode!case
From: [e-mail] (Bill Case)
Subject: Re: Pleiadian problems
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:31:36 GMT
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter T.) writes:
>A few sources state that the Pleiadians no longer visit us because they have "problems at home" that
>they must attend to.
>Does anybody know what these problems are supposed to be?

They've picked up the a.a.v feed, and the masses are in some ritualistic
frenzy over their new god.  Yep,  JW carved in green gold!  The rituals
include brief group recitations....12 times a day.
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A Summary Thesis on Free Energy
Keywords: cia, mj12, bush, rockefeller, rothschild
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:41:17 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Lines: 1861

Hmmmm.... seems like you all are interested in the topic. And
quite a topic it is as there is on-going work in the field that
obviously you won't read about in your newspaper. The following
file was written by a PhD Physicist who, due to the security
nature of his establishment, prefers to maintain his anonymity.

Up front...this is close to 2000 lines long. If you pay for
your own connection I recommend you download prior to reading
it.

Enjoy......Len
===============================================================

A REVIEW OF ZERO POINT ENERGY AND FREE ENERGY
THEORY, PROGRESS, AND DEVICES

Presented to the
International Forum on New Science
1304 S. College Avenue
Ft. Colins, CO 80524
[phone]

The Videotape of the Speech is Also Available


September 19, 1992


Abstract

A review is presented of the theory and experimental evidence relating
to Zero Point Energy and Free Energy Devices.  This review is based on a
two year study of the information and data available in these fields,
and also upon the information presented by various key researchers in
these fields at three recent conferences.  It is found that there is
increasing momentum and a growing network of researchers taking place in
these fields, despite reported efforts to suppress this information.
Examples of such past and present suppression activities are included.
Nevertheless, sound theoretical foundations for understanding so-called
"Zero Point Energy" and "Free Energy" devices have been documented and
are available.  There are several reports by various authors of
experiments that indicate a much higher than normal operation
efficiency, and even over-unity operation.  Unfortunately, these results
have to date not been replicated by other researchers.  Since energy is
conserved, pure perpetual motion cannot exist.  However, several
examples are known to exist where energy efficiency can appear to be
over-unity, and the motion can appear to us to be perpetual.  For these
types of systems, the idea of "Free Energy" can be applied, and lessons
learned.  Several experiments are discussed that have demonstrated the
possibility of obtaining energy from space, and utilizing that energy in
a way different from the normal laws of electricity.  These experiments
and results are being tracked down and closely examined.  Valuable
references with real mailing addresses and telephone numbers are
included herein.  Replications of these encouraging results are
desperately needed.

Introduction

"Let God kill him that does not know, yet presumes to show the other the
way!"  This quote from a Persian dervish in the movie and videotape of
"Meetings with Remarkable Men" by Gurdjieff (1963) pretty much
summarizes my feelings toward the whole area of science, and living as
well.  It's a jungle out there.  The dividing line between truth,
fiction, what is best, and what sells has never been less clearly
defined.  Since the advent of the digital information explosion, the sea
of information has been growing at a pace that few can follow.  However,
if we are to be responsible and seek the truth, we must persevere.  I am
dedicated to finding the truth.  My fields of interest are Nature,
religion, and science, and their beneficial applications to the human
race.

To learn about the foundations and current technical knowledge in the
Zero Point and Free Energy fields is to open a very large Pandora's Box.
One finds non-believers, strong supporters, dissenters, and active hard-
nosed suppressers.  My interest was aroused as a teenager by reading
about the life and contributions of Nikola Tesla, now available in the
books by Walters (1961) and Cheney (1981).  He is the one individual
responsible for creating the entire alternating current network that
powers the world today.  He defied the science of his day, and designed
and built the AC generator that transforms "potential" energy into
"electrical" energy.  Yet, he is not in many school texts, and his basic
theories and ideas for larger projects and applications were nearly lost
to the world.  Why was he not supported?  Why is Thomas Edison such a
well known name and Nikola Tesla is not?  Why was his research not
actively continued?  Why does the academic community, within the US,
continually ignore the possible applications of his theories?

Tesla was unceremoniously thrown out of the best technical school in
Yugoslavia for believing that he could build a generator that would
extract electrical power from a running stream of water.  His professor
called it:  "Perpetual Motion!"  This is not so unfamiliar.  We have
heard other such convenient explanations, such as:  "Heavier than air
machines will never fly" (Lord Kelvin, 1890s);  "We threw out all of the
textbooks, and then we built the airplane" (the Wright Brothers);  "The
human body will not survive speeds of over 40 miles per hour" (early
1900s);  and "Airplanes can not go faster than the speed of sound"
(1940s).  Other example abound, all spoken by the out-spoken "leaders"
of their day.  My view is that science continues to grow and mature.
Nature is fixed.  Only our understanding of Nature continually unfolds.
Sometimes this growth has been only painful, and sometimes it has
provided great shocks to the system.  Fear of change is not an adequate
excuse for not actively pursuing the development of our full
capabilities as human beings, as individuals or as groups.

Areas Of Related Interest

The study of the "Free Energy" field overlaps with quite a number of
other areas of science and technology that are not well understood, and
are usually called "fringe areas."  I believe that responsible
investigations in these areas do uncover important information and data
that can relate to various questions that occur in the study of Free
Energy.  These questions include:  Why is this research not conducted?
Is it suppressed?  Why is it suppressed?  Are there other examples of
such suppression?  Where can I get more information?  Are there any
examples of such advanced related technologies?  If such energy sources
exist, has anyone found out how to use them?  How do they work?  Can I
use them, and can I use them in a responsible manner?

There is a great outcry by those familiar with our current energy policy
and the public electricity utility network for need of a new
breakthrough in the technology of energy production.  Dr. Gary Johnson
(1992), a college professor and IEEE Senior Member, recently published a
short review of the researchers in this area in a noted US technical
journal and concluded his four page report with the statement:

"There is a great deal of noise in the literature.  Some concepts are
obviously nonsense.  Others will prove to be in error.  But is there any
signal in all the noise?  There is if Tesla, Moray, and Bearden are
correct.  The potential payoff is enormous, so the search should be
continued if there is any chance at all of success."

Also, Llewellen King (1991), publisher of The Energy Daily, Defense
Week, and Environmental Week Newsletters in Washington DC recently
strongly and dramatically stated in a speech to an international
technical conference:

"We have failed with energy to come up with the 'Great Big
Breakthrough!'  'The Major Change.'  'The Radically Different Thing.'
'The Quantum Leap Forward.'  Where is the jump from a copper wire to a
fiber or to a cable?  Where is the equivalent of fiber optics for
electricity?  ... The new technologies (discussed at this conference),
such as magnetohydrodynamics, (are advancing and coming forth), and yet
these things have not fostered - and we are still boiling water!  It is
theoretically possible that we could at some point take this 'Quantum
Leap Forward.'  ... And in order to do that, I believe that you will
need new institutions to deploy new technology.  They won't be deployed
by the extant of the old institutions.  ... The Challenge in Technology
is to find It, and then sell It, and finally to deploy It."

Since the status and results in energy technologies and in these other
fringe areas are seen differently by different persons, many
misunderstandings take place, people become frustrated, emotions become
heated, and eventually someone gets sorely offended.  People can range
from Apathy, to Denial, to Anger, and finally to Acceptance.  So as to
not offend anyone in this paper, I will limit the areas of my summary
introduction investigations to Politics, Religion, and Sex.

Politics

"Never give a sucker an even break."  I became very concerned when I
became aware of first hand and second hand accounts of actual physical,
emotional, and legal harassment being made to inventors, investigators,
and writers in these scientific fringe areas.  And I thought all of
these suppression stories were nonsense.  Upon investigation, harassment
always follows those who promote a new paradigm.  Galileo spent a lot of
time in jail.  So did Royal Rife, who demonstrated a cure for cancer in
the 1930s, summarized in the books written by Barry Lyons (1989, 1989),
published, of course, in Canada.  Christopher Bird (1991) writes of the
persecution of Gaston Naessens for his radical and effective treatments
of diseases.  America West Publishers has available many books that list
actions that have been taken by various authorities to diffuse or bury
"politically embarrassing" events and situations.  Paul Findley wrote a
best seller (1985) that summarizes the effectiveness of large political
pressure groups.  Fortunately today, there are many who do not conform
to the "party line" in many political areas, such as the "Center for
Action" in Nevada.  In the area of AIDS research and information
transfer, Dr. Robert Strecker has produced a videotape (1988) and Dr.
Taki Anagnoston (1991) has published a book that promotes a view far
different than is advertised nationally to the American people.  "The
Cutting Newsletter" by William Douglass also serves as a source for
alternate information.

In my view, there is not a determined effort by the government to
suppress information - because there is no government.  I see instead a
collection and network of vested interest groups that seem to tightly
band together for mutual financial survival.  The actions taken by any
of these groups may be completely independent from the others.
Therefore, I find the "government suppression" and "world domination"
theories proposed by some to be interesting, and probably not
applicable.  However, some sort of control and suppression in the press
seems very evident.  Coleman (1992) has summarized that certain groups
are actively controlling all other groups.  The "Project Censored
Newsletter" and their student staff at Sonoma State University, CA, are
actively pointing out US news stories that seem to be actively
suppressed in this country.  So, how does this all relate to the topic
of Free Energy?  Ken MacNeill (1983) published a very disturbing article
entitled "Insights into the Proprietary Syndrome" in which he points out
that over 3,000 patents have been suppressed!  It is reprinted in the
Appendix of this paper.  READ IT!

Two historical events are worth including here regarding possible
suppression and inability to commercialize Free Energy devices.  These
are the Over-Unity Device of T. Henry Moray (Resines, 1988), and the
Hindershot Motor (Brown, 1988).  Both of these devices were publicly
demonstrated to the US press in the 1930s, and carefully conducted tests
were made to assess these devices.  From the newspaper reports and
clippings, it appears that both devices passed all tests, only to fall
into oblivion.  What exactly happened to the devices, their inventors,
and the technology is not known.  It also appears that the secrets of
the devices died with their inventors.

If information deemed sensitive by certain governmental agencies can be
actively suppressed, then what are the other possible ways of obtaining
such information?  One method that has gained popularity in recent years
is through the use of channeling.

Religion

"Ask and you shall receive".  I was surprised to hear that a grandmother
("dharma") who said she could channel Nikola Tesla had been given a
formal test in front of some very influential people in Los Angles, and
she passed the test with very few errors.  I was told that the questions
were prepared by a small knowledgeable group, and about half of the
questions were reported to be trick questions.  Well, if this method can
work to get advanced technical information let's try it.  After all,
where do our ideas come from in the first place?  Both Tesla and Edison
are reported to have made their respective amazing discoveries while
daydreaming - not actually thinking!

Upon investigation, there is a morass of spiritual and channeled
information being published out there.  From my point of view, it is all
applicable to a person, depending upon where that person is at in his
life, and of course it is not all true, applicable, or valid
information.  The magazine "Connecting Link" summarizes a lot of this
information.  Just for purposes of reference, I will list the names of
those channeled intelligences that I have researched, by either reading
their communications or personally conversing with them through their
physical host.  (The references are organized by the name of the
intelligence, or collective intelligence, with the name of the host or
channeler in parentheses.)  From what I currently know, I give this list
is given in order of increasing importance to me for personal
information transfer:

Ramtha, Lazaris, Seth, Bashar, Korton, Ashtar, Soltec, Cosmic Awareness,
The Pleiadians, Hatonn, Ra, Hilarion, St. Germain, Thoth, Mary, Sananda,
Aton.

To me, any information is valid only when it constructively supports or
fits into the puzzle that I am trying to solve.  What is valid for each
person varies with each person, and their puzzle of the moment.  I have
noticed that I receive more valid information from hosts who are in
unconscious trance during the communications.  If the host can remember
anything of the communication, I feel there is always the possibility of
tampering with the information during reception and transmission, thus
producing "tainted" information.  This has historically occurred with
many popularized channelers that have elected to use their talents and
such communications primarily for their personal profit.

Also, I find one needs to separate the substance of the message from any
given dates.  To hear an intelligence say that "at this time a truck is
gathering speed and is coming this way that will cross this intersection
here in three hours," does not necessarily mean the truck will ever get
there.  If it does, great.  Then that is a measure of predictability.
If not, so what!  Was that the point?  Neither of these issues is
demonstrable science.  I find it is best to gather the substance of the
information and relate it to my puzzles.  Those that believe and act on
all of the details of every channeled communication may be in for quite
a shock, as described in the book When Prophecy Fails by Festinger,
Riecken, and Schachter (1956).

I do know that some of the channeled information recently received is
extremely accurate.  A case in point is the book channeled by Sananda
through "dharma" (1989) regarding the life of Jesus .   While persons
affiliated with America West Publishers, then in southern California,
were trying to decipher the German text of the first few chapters of
this material (originally translated into German from the Aramaic script
found in 1963) with very little success, a complete translation in
English was given in 1989 through "dharma" by Sananda (1989).  Two years
later, the original German manuscript was translated by J. H. Ziegler
and B. L. Greene, authored by Rashid (1992), and published by Wild
Flower Press in Oregon.  Neither party knew of the existence of the
other until after the material was typeset.  The contents are nearly
identical.  I can personally attest to other cases of receiving
extremely accurate information and being allowed to be involved in
"unexplainable" physical events.

Whether one needs to be out-of-body to receive information, I am not
sure.  Robert Monroe (1971, 1985) has spent years in this field with the
Monroe Institute in Virginia, and he and his co-workers have all
received personal knowledge.  I do not know if they have received any
higher technical knowledge that is of interest here.  J. J. Hurtak
(1978) received a vast amount of technical knowledge out-of-body when he
channeled the extensive work The Keys of Enoch.

Why haven't these intelligences just given us the secrets of advanced
technology on a silver platter?  I don't know.  Perhaps we as a
collective society are not ready for it.  Some technical information is
being given out from these intelligences and is slowly being published.
Perhaps, as Hatonn, The Pleiadians, and other intelligences have
suggested:  that if we told you that, then "they" would kill our
vehicle.  Perhaps, waiting is.

Perhaps the goal of life is not to pursue the engineering of an easier
life style solely for the comfort of living our lives through
technology, but to finally realize what our personal mission here is, to
become in touch with that mission, and then to perform that mission.
That phrase from college:  "God has a plan for my life" makes very good
sense here.  The problem actually may be that most of us are not taking
the time to find out what our personal mission is, and how to
responsibly perform it.  If you wish to pursue this, the most Holy
course, I highly recommend the books by Dion Fortune (1957), Gaetan
Delaforge (1987), and Fred and Pam Cameron (1991).  The latter book,
Bridges of Light, includes step-by-step instructions, all specifically
channeled, on how you can receive your own accurate information.  So Be
It.

Sex

"It takes two to Tango."  Potentially, things are very interesting.  It
seems to take two at different potentials to make something happen:
male/female, up/down, positive/negative, north/south.  The view being
taught today is primarily simply given in one or two dimensions.
Electricity is caused by the electrons going one way on a wire, and the
holes going the other way.  Electrical energy is created by chemical
reactions that have a lower chemical ground state than the reactants.
Chemical reactions are caused by electron bonding where electron orbits
are finally filled and then higher orbits can be filled.  Atomic energy
is caused by electrons and nucleons dropping into lower energy states
(gamma rays and lasers), or by differences in the binding energy of the
nuclei (fission and fusion).  The Sun gives and the Earth receives.

For energy creation, we have developed the catch-all term:  potential
energy.  The water behind a dam is said to have a great deal of
potential energy, so the electricity is said to come out of the power
plant.  A battery has a stored electrical potential, so it powers your
radio.  Men and women all have stored potential, and we all know what
trouble that can cause.  However;  no one ever talks about magnets, and
the possible potential energies within magnets and electromagnetic
fields.  Light is such an electromagnetic (EM) field.  The motions of
the electrical component and the magnetic component of alternating
current, similar to light, are three-dimensional as they travel along a
wire, and at several points, each is zero.  Where did they go?  How is
EM energy stored and transmitted?  Can usable amounts of energy be
extracted from already existing large and massive EM fields?

I have found only two sources that reference the modeling of EM fields
in three spatial dimensions:  the works of Walter Russell (1926, 1947,
1989), and material channeled by Hatonn et. al. (1991).  The idea that
energy exists in male and female vortices that form between this
dimension and other dimensions is not new.  The idea just hasn't been
very useful, yet.  Russell and Hatonn describe three dimensional
elemental EM fields that can be classified as male and female by the
spin of their 3-D EM fields, much the same way that we describe the
poles of a bar magnet.  Russell developed and tested counter-wound sets
of coils, each in the shape of overlapping (male/female) cones.  Such a
coupling and cancellation of these fields would open up a whole new way
of thinking about electricity and EM fields in general.  Also, a new
investigation of the physics of rotating permanent magnets and rotating
EM fields would be very interesting.  All reported research in these
fields seems to stop in the early 1950s.  I wonder why.

UFOs and Crop Circles

"We are living in Lies."  This statement was made by both Colin Andrews
and Linda Moulton-Howe during their presentations during the Whole Life
Expo (WLE) in San Francisco, April 1991.  It speaks for itself.  If
examples of advanced technology are being demonstrated all around us
nearly every day, shouldn't we be interested?  Well, if it does not
impact our daily life, and our personal finances, maybe we don't care.
We could say, let the government figure it out.  Well, evidently, "they"
don't, can't, or won't care.  Besides, what you don't know won't hurt
you.  Right?  However;  it may stunt your growth.

If you really want to know, you are going to have to rely on yourself.
This is all very interesting to me, because it allows for the
possibility of several examples of advanced technology here and now.
And from my experiences, these phenomena are real, reoccurring, and
getting more numerous and in-your-face outrageous all the time.

Without diverting from our main topic for too long, I will list the best
sources of UFO craft pictures and crop geometrical formation material I
have found.  (They are not just dots in the sky, and circles,  any more.
Sorry.)  The UFO craft pictures began in the 1950s with those taken by
George Adamski and published in his book in by Leslie in 1953.  (These
pictures could have been faked, and I recall someone telling me that
Adamski was said to have declared his whole photograph library a fraud
on his death bed;  and I do not know.)  The pictures taken and thousands
of sightings reported in the New York Hudson Valley region in the 1980s
cannot be denied (Hynek, 1987).  Pictures from around the world have
been compiled in two books by Wendelle Stevens and August Roberts
(1985).  Other UFO book sources are listed.  And, the UFO Video
Clearinghouse in California has just about all the movie footage and
video taken of UFOs and TV programs produced that are available world-
wide.  "UFO's the Best Evidence" is a two-hour video produced by KLAS,
Channel 6 in Las Vegas, that should be seen by everyone!

Close-up photographs, movie footage, and videotapes are much more
disturbing to some people than the usual lights in the sky.  The
photographs by Billy Meier in Volume 1 of the books by Elders (1979) are
apparently all actual photographs of large disk craft.  (I was told that
a few of the pictures in Volume 2 (1983) were of models that were made
in order to compare to Meier's craft photographs, and then the photos
were inadvertently mixed).  For those that disagree with this, I
recommend that you carefully read the technical photographic analyses in
Volume 1 that were performed on some of the photos by disinterested
scientists in the US using electron microscopes, laser scanning, and
computer analyses and enhancements;  and then read the book by Gary
Kinder (1987), who set out to visit Meier, his family, and the people in
the local community there in Switzerland in order to prove the Meier
story a hoax.  Also, we have the pictures from Gulf Breeze, Florida, in
the book by Ed and Francis Walters (1990).  (Some say they faked the
pictures, but not to the hundreds of local eye witnesses that claimed to
have seen the same thing, including most of the city officials.)

Robert (Bob) Lazar presents an interesting story in his videotape (1992)
of how he became involved with some disk craft while working in the
power propulsion area.  His story is summarized as one of the six
viewpoints in the book by Lindemann (1991), as is Linda Moulton-Howe's.
Lazar states that the craft he worked on were powered by a matter-
antimatter (potential energy) reaction with a near-stable element of an
atomic number of 115, which has not yet been found or produced on Earth.
Such a nuclide could give off power in a manner similar to Cobalt-60,
which emits very high energy and deadly gamma radiation, thus the need
for lead shielding in nuclear fission power plants.  How the El-115
power would be utilized is unknown.  More to the point, how would such
craft be able to levitate above the Earth?  Perhaps it could utilize an
interaction of engineered variable frequency EM fields with the Earth's
local gravity and EM fields.  That could explain the very complex and
time-dependent harmonics found by expert sound researchers when they
analyzed the sound of a hovering craft as recorded on audio tape by
Meier while making movies of a craft.  These are all available.

For additional information regarding what these craft are, who are
coming, and why, I would recommend the material from Stanton Friedman
(1991) and Sananda (1989).  Additional viewpoints are found in the book
by Lindemann (1991) and in the transcription of the wonderful talk given
by Linda Moulton-Howe at the April 1991 SF WLE.  It appears we are being
visited by more than 50 alien cultures on the physical plane, all
different, yet related, each having their own version of their "sports
car or RV," and each with their own purposes and motivations.  It also
appears that this is nothing new, has been going on for what appears to
be a very, very long time, and so what!  What is interesting is the
apparent lack of advanced technology transfer, which could be likened to
a possible violation of the "Prime Non-Interference Directive"
popularized in Star Trek.  Unless such advanced data is being given to
the privileged few.  Unless we, in the US and in other parts of the
world, as individual societies are being allowed the information as fast
as we can (financially) safely absorb it and properly utilize it for our
benefit and not our mutual destruction.  That is what I would hope.
That is where I want to be.

The crop formations are another and perhaps a more advanced topic
altogether.  The books by Colin Andrews (1989), Alick Bartholomew
(1991), and Ralph Noyes (1990) stimulate the imagination.  As Colin
would say:  "I'm sorry.  It just isn't Doug and Dave, as the British
Press would have you believe!"  These formations have become quite
complex, such as the Barbury Castle formation that appeared overnight in
July 1991.  It contains three "circles" of about 35 feet in diameter
located at the apex of a nearly equilateral triangle that measures about
180 feet on a side, with three internal circles and spokes within the
triangle.  I highly recommend Colin Andrew's (1991) videotape
"Undeniable Evidence."

Background Material

It is important that I include as much quality reference material as I
am able.  These areas of interest have grown so large and confusing that
it is difficult to know where to turn for the best or most meaningful
information.  So I will include a list of the most applicable patents,
the best books, reports, conference proceedings, and the most up-to-date
papers that I know of in the Zero Point Energy and Free Energy fields.
I also have included in the references the complete names and addresses
of several technical societies, groups, and book sources.

Patents

There are several patents of phenomena and devices that are of interest.
Rather than discuss them here, I will list them in the references.  They
may be referred to later.

It is important to note that you can quickly obtain any patent from a
local US patent clearinghouse, such as the one in Sunnyvale, California,
by a telephone call or a FAX once an account has been set up for you.
If you are not in a hurry, you can order a copy of any patent for $3.00
(three dollars) each from the Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks in
Washington DC, although it may take 2-6 weeks.  Just provide the long
patent number.

Books and Reports

Many books and reports have been published that relate to the Free
Energy fields.  I have listed the ones I have looked at in the
references in this section.  I have included all of Lt. Col. Tom
Bearden's books and reports.  It should be pointed out that Tom's book
entitled AIDS:  Biological Warfare (1988) probably has the best
description of the pumped phase conjugate mirror wave theory model of
any of his books.  The book by Moray B. King (1989) gives an excellent
overview of the definition of Zero Point Energy.  Several books and
reports have recently emerged regarding gravity and the Earth's apparent
energy grid network.  Books regarding the Orgonne Accumulator and ether
vortex mechanics are also included.  The book by Hans Nieper (1981) is a
great reference book, and sometimes hard to find:  use the source
listed.  The theories promoted by Richard Hoagland and the Mars Mission
are also interesting, including the fact that a solid tetrahedron placed
in a sphere will intersect the sphere at 19.5 degrees latitude, which is
the same Earth latitude upon which Tesla was constructing his
Wardenclyffe Tower in New York.  The theories of Victor Schauberger
(Alexandersson, 1982) are also very interesting, including his
descriptions of Natural energy vortices, the changing properties of 4
degree C water with the phases of the moon, as descriptions of other
Natural wonders.

Conferences

I am familiar with only a few of the many technical conferences held
that deal with the Zero Point and Free Energy fields.  The one's I have
recently attended are the 26th Intersociety Energy Conversion
Engineering Conference (IECEC), held in August 1991 in Boston, MA;  the
1992 International Tesla Symposium, held in July 1992 in Colorado
Springs, CO;  and the 27th IECEC held in August 1992 in San Diego, CA.
As I organized the authors and papers for both the 26th and 27th IECECs
in the "Innovative Concepts" sessions for the "New Technologies for
Energy Utilization Area," I am more familiar with their papers and
contents.  The material presented in other conferences, such as the bi-
annual International Tesla Society conferences, do relate and overlap
with much of the material presented in the recent IECEC conferences.  It
is my desire that future authors will network and exchange information
before they write their next paper, so we can accelerate and converge
the work that is being performed in these fields.

Societies and Publications

All the ones that I feel are of importance are listed in the references
for your use.  Make multiple photocopies of all of the six pages of the
references and distribute them.

Free Energy Theory, Experiments,  and Devices

"Come on, let me show you where it's at."  Well, I can show you what I
have been able to find out from the referenced sources within the past
three years anyway.  I have learned that there is a lot of very sound
scientific theory that supports the existence of additional energy
sources, ways of interacting with those potential energies, and
extracting energy for use.  There is also a lot of experiments, devices,
and just good ol' fooling around going across the country to try to
measure new ways of measuring these new energy sources.  There are also
devices that have been built, tested, demonstrated, and provided for
testing by others - that seem to have passed all of the tests.  These
will be discussed below.  First some truths and definitions.

Energy exists.  It can not be created nor destroyed.  Energy can only be
converted from one form into another.  In that conversion process, some
energy is lost, in the form of friction or heat, so the efficiency of
the energy transfer process is always less than 100 percent.  The
process (you can envision a box) will always give less energy out than
energy goes in.  The ratio of "energy out" to "energy in" is always less
than one:  under-unity.  An over-unity device cannot exist.  Perpetual
motion does not exist.  All motion eventually will run down.  (Whether
you live to be here when it does run down is another matter.)  So, let's
see.  A car battery is a good example.  It has so much energy to start
with, and it eventually runs down from starting the starter motor and
friction in the wire.  Draw a larger box.  The car runs and recharges
the battery because the engine converts the potential energy within the
fuel during combustion into crankshaft motion, which is then used to
recharge the battery, until it runs out of gas.  Draw a larger box.  The
car can go downhill with the engine off by transforming the potential
energy of the hill into kinetic or moving energy at the bottom of the
hill.  OK.  But what about Hoover Dam?  It just sits there and creates
energy.  We don't put any energy into it, except when we built it.  And
we sure didn't put as much energy into it as we have gotten out of it.
And it for sure is not going to last forever.  But it's doing just fine
now.  So is that an example of a Free Energy device with an energy
conversion factor of over-unity?  Yes or No?

To handle such mind benders, workers in the Zero Point and Free Energy
fields have, for better or worse, and probably for the near term worse,
have adopted a simple way of describing the results of their research,
in terms of what they can immediately measure and see.  So there are
three categories that are generally expounded upon:  "Free Energy Under-
unity," "Free Energy, Over-unity," and "Zero Point Energy."  (1) "Free
Energy Under-unity" would be when I get more energy out than before and
I only made a small change to my design, like to increase the overall
system efficiency.  An example might be those magnets that when placed
onto a car gas line give 5 miles extra per gallon.  That's Free Energy
dude!  This appears to be the case for several motors and generators
that utilize magnets on their rotating shafts.  (2)  "Free Energy Over-
unity" would be where I seem to get more energy out than I know am
putting in.  Period.  An example would be pushing a car over the top of
a hill.  When it takes off without you, it appears additional energy is
coming from somewhere.  And, in all cases, of such experiments, the
energy MUST be coming from somewhere in some form.  It just hasn't been
figured out yet, and the researcher has probably not drawn a large
enough box.  (3)  "Zero Point Energy" refers to the energy that comes
from outside your influence:  the wiring in the wall;  the transmission
lines nearby;  a large EM signal on a specific FM radio station;  the
Earth's EM or gravitational field;  solar EM energy;  or possibly
directed energy from outer space.  Just because we can't measure it,
doesn't mean it's not there.

With these definitions in mind, we see that Hoover Dam is a good example
and could be considered by some Dam Engineer to be an over-unity device.
A good Dam Scientist would probably point out that the Sun evaporates
the oceans and lakes, moves the vapor, makes the rain that fills the
Dam, and the potential energy of the water produces the electrical
power.  The Dam Engineer could probably care less, and could also say
that the Dam is a perpetual motion machine that will last forever;
which means at least until he retires and his kids are out of college.
The Dam Engineer would say:  "The Dam thing runs on Free Energy out of
the air!  The city of Los Angles believes it!"  But:  you know it won't
last forever.  Neither will the Sun.

So we need to be careful in our choice of words.  For the purposes of
this paper, a Free Energy device will appear to produce more energy than
it uses, because it is not known from what form of potential energy
source the other required input energy comes from.  Thus, we will allow
system efficiencies over 100%, and over-unity energy conversion until we
are either proven wrong, or we finally draw a larger box and understand
what is happening inside that box.

It is very important here to be a Fair Witness.  (Thank you Robert
Heinlein!)  That is a person who reports exactly what he or she sees;
no more, no less.  Researchers and investors really do not give a (guess
what) about what you think is going on.  They want the facts of exactly
what you observed.  If a device appears to be promising:  say so, and
report it to be so.  If it has a problem, say it seems to have a
problem.  Only after extensive support, testing, and cross-examination
should an experiment or a device be classified or labeled a fraud or a
failure.  Once labeled as such, they will not easily obtain further
support.  Be responsible.

Free Energy Theoretical Considerations

Harold Aspden from the United Kingdom (1991) shared insights into the
basic factors involved with vacuum field or zero point energy so that:
"the 'free energy' challenge to win through and revolutionize the energy
scene can involve more people with design skills and resources."  He
proposes a frontal attack on currently accepted physics, urging:  "a
theoretical and experimental program to follow projects in five
classifications:  (1) Non-relativistic energy theory;  (2) Ferromagnetic
vacuum energy generation;  (3) Electrodynamic vacuum energy generation;
(4) Electromagnetic vacuum energy generation;  and (5) Gravitational
vacuum energy generation."  He also pointed out the need for much of the
work to be proprietary in order to attract investment funds,  but
eventually the published literature would be augmented by disclosure
arising by development on these projects.  Aspden (1992) this year
described a foundation of a new technology for converting environmental
heat energy into electricity.  The structure involved, whether in the
tested thermoelectric device or the suggested radiation concentration
device, uses thin film metal films separated by non-conductive
materials.  An efficiency of 70% of the Carnot maximum has been
demonstrated for the thermoelectric device operating at ambient
temperatures with a 20 degree temperature differential.

Moray B. King (1992) presents a very good detailed review of the
"Progress and Results in Zero-Point Energy Research" in his paper with
the same title, available from Tesla Inc.  Moray states:

"Since the advent of quantum mechanics, modern physics has supported the
view that the fabric of totality of empty space is not void but contains
a plenum of energy called the zero point energy (ZPE).  The energy
consists of fluctuations of electric field energy that persists even at
zero degrees Kelvin.  A question applicable to engineers is can the ZPE
be tapped as an energy source?  At first this idea seems to be a blatant
violation of conservation of energy, but if the zero-point energy really
exists as is suggested by modern physics, energy is present and its
conversion would not be the issue."

"The surprising cold current effect has been associated with other
inventions, such as T. Henry Moray's, using number 30 wire within his 50
kiloWatt device.  It might be explained by the hypothesis that the
coupling of synchronous ion oscillations with the ZPE can manifest
macroscopic vacuum polarization displacement currents, which can
surround a conductive wire and be guided by it.  Conduction band
electrons, lacking stable, radially convergent vacuum polarization
lines, have a minimal interaction with these displacement currents, and
the wires remain cold.  If engineers could replicate this effect, zero-
point energy research would receive widespread interest."

"Another area where coherent ion motion is associated with energy
anomalies involves abrupt electrical discharges.  (This is apparent in
controlled water explosion experiments.)  Hyde's device was faced with a
similar problem of absorbing large voltage pulses in his patented
invention.  He solved the problem and created an advanced embodiment
which produced over 20 kiloWatts of net output power while free
running."

"From the concentrated vacuum polarization of atomic nuclei arises the
possibility of triggering a macroscopic ZPE coherence with the
synchronous motion of many nuclei.  Further supporting evidence arises
from inventions that utilize coherent ion motions and output excessive
energy.  The sharp voltage spikes that arise from ion-acoustic activity
can be converted by use of circuits such as Hyde's voltage divider.  The
largest effects might be produced by solid state methods that manifest
dual, counter-rotating, acoustical, lattice spinor waves.  If
synchronous ion-acoustic activity coheres the zero-point energy, there
will be many more inventions forthcoming, and a new energy source will
be recognized."

It should be pointed out that the voltage divider circuit in Hyde's
patent (patent Fig. 6) has been questioned by several engineers.  Moray
King is assisting a network of scientists and engineers who are
redesigning this circuit to replicate and produce a working model of
this device.

For some years, Tom Bearden (1991) has worked on an extended
electromagnetics theory, involving the scalar component of the
quaternion.  (A scalar is a number with no vector direction, like speed.
A vector has numerical values in each defined direction, like velocity.
A quaternion is like a 4-component vector in a real-complex plane
space).  In MAXWELL'S ORIGINAL QUATERNION THEORY, this scalar component
often remains when the directional components zero.  Further, it enfolds
vectors and functions of vectors inside, in a hidden variable manner.
Specifically, Tom has patterned a unified field theory concept upon the
previously unnoticed but remarkable early work of E. T. Whittaker.  "In
1903 and 1904, Whittaker showed that all present day vector EM can be
replaced by scalar potential interferometry, and that bidirectional
harmonic EM plane wave sets could be used to produce a standing wave of
force-field-free potential.  In modern terms, this shows how to turn EM
wave energy into electrogravitional potential energy, then how to
interfere two such scalar potentials to recover the EM energy, even at a
distance.  This unrecognized work is of great importance:  when applied
to modern physics, it produces supersets of quantum mechanics, classical
electromagnetics, and general relativity.  Further, all three extended
disciplines unify on their common Whittaker subset, in a testable and
engineerable fashion."  All of Tom's theories to unify electromagnetics,
general relativity, and quantum mechanics are summarized in his 1991
paper, which is only six pages long!  These are all available from the
Association of Distinguished American Scientists.

Bearden (1992) this year points out that:  "By utilizing fundamental new
definitions for energy, potential, and scalar potential, the mass of the
atomic nucleus may be considered a powerful electrostatic scalar
potential, referred to as the mass potential.  The Whittaker EM biwave
structure of the scalar potential then becomes a new and universal
internal EM structure for mass, including the atomic nucleus.  This
structure can be directly manipulated electromagnetically, which allows
direct EM alternation of the mass potential, and the nucleus itself.
This totally new class of nuclear interactions is briefly explored, and
several hypothesized mechanisms advanced for neutralizing or processing
nuclear wastes.  Additional applications are hypothesized for
experimental falsification or verification.  We have previously pointed
out two successful experiments by Sweet, one for extracting useful EM
energy from the vacuum, and one for the production of unilateral forces,
including antigravity.  We have also pointed out the implications of the
approach for possible testable unification of electromagnetics, general
relativity, and quantum mechanics.  The cited Whittaker theory
establishes a greatly expanded but engineerable EM, with external
(spatial) and internal (hyperspatial) subsets.  Scientists and engineers
are urged to seriously study the two cited Whittaker papers and their
implications, and to set up experiments to falsify or verify the
hypotheses advanced."

A new paradigm and a theoretical analysis supporting experimental tests
of the N-Machine was given by Shiuji Inomata from Japan (1991).  He
points out that H. A. Lorentz's treatment, in which a stationary ether
is assumed, gives the correct answer.  Even in this case, a new paradigm
of science is necessary for the full understanding of the functioning N-
Machine.

Kurt Van Voorhies (1991) is conducting his graduate work at a well known
state university in the prospects of world-wide wireless power transfer,
as first proposed by Tesla.  Tesla had designed and was building the
Wardenclyffe tower on Long Island in 1900, featuring a 187 foot wooden
tower designed to support a 68 foot diameter copper hemisphere.  While
Tesla intended to use the facility publicly for communications, his
secret aim was to implement wireless power transmission.  The
transmitter was to have operated at 30-100 megaVolts, which Tesla
claimed was sufficient for worldwide power distribution.  However, when
Marconi demonstrated transoceanic wireless communications with much
simpler equipment (illegally using Tesla's patents in the process), J.
P. Morgan withdrew funding for Tesla's project.  Research indicates that
the power receiver requires the most development to demonstrate Tesla's
early theories.

Toby Grotz (1991) also presented theory and results of Project Tesla to
determine if the Earth's electrostatic (atmospheric) Schumann Cavity can
be resonated, if the power that is delivered to the cavity propagates
with very low losses, and if power can be extracted at other locations
within the cavity.  The theory, bases of operation of a transmitter,
related computer programs, and component values are all given in Toby's
paper.

A theoretical analysis of Tesla's "Death Ray" was also presented by Toby
Grotz (1991).  By carefully examining historical records, this 1937
design was probably the first attempt to construct a high voltage
particle beam device.  Tesla's estimates indicate that a 5 meter
diameter metal sphere charged to 60 million volts could project a high
energy charged particle beam up to 60 kilometers through the air in a
given direction.

Oliver Nichelson (1991) summarized two of Tesla's later energy
generation device designs, including a turbine-shaped Unipolar Dynamo
design for a machine that can continue to produce electricity after
being disconnected from an outside power source.  This paper is also
important because it also describes Tesla's "Coil for Electro-
Magnetics," patented in 1893.  This coil looks exactly the same as would
the counter-wound conical coils of Walter Russell, if Russell's coils
were drawn on a piece of paper in two dimensions.  (Surprise.)

Don Kelly (1991) examined the theory and operation of an enhanced tank
circuit from two dated Soviet papers translated from the Russian.  The
experiments suggest that the full band of a tank circuit can be utilized
to take advantage of a full EMF output over an extended period of time,
and then periodically and uniformly re-exciting the circuit as an
effective electrical energy conservation method.  Don suggests that
over-unity operation may be possible by proper adjustment of the
resonant driver frequency and time-varying component reactances.

Paul LaViolette (1991) suggested taking a more lenient interpretation of
the First Law of Thermodynamics and allowing the possibility that free
energy devices could operate at efficiencies exceeding 100%.  He
evaluates several ways of generating free energy in the context of
subquantum kinetics gene energy (photon blueshifting), zero-point
fluctuations, Ampere law forces, and electrogravitic gravity field
manipulations.

Lynn Surgalla (1991) presented a tutorial on non-linear resonance
phenomena which describes the mathematical theoretical techniques she
feels necessary for modeling the design, tuning, and control of
nonlinear effects.

Jose Zoleta from the Philippines (1991) proposed his TAF-13 device:
Triac Alternator Flywheel Motor, as an alternate source of energy.  By
carefully choosing the components and resonant frequency of operation,
he expects to produce 150% or more energy than input into his motor-
generator system.  However, I feel that more details and data on his
design are necessary to expect his system to provide over-unity
operation.

In discussing plans for the quad-disc electrostatic generator, Donald
Kelly (1992), described the basic principles of the Wimshurst twin
counterrotating electrostatic (E/S) disks, and in addition a twin rotor-
to-stator E/S generating factor is included in this composite generator.
The positive and negative stator discs on each side of the rotor disc
receive E/S transfer from the multiple conductive segments on the outer
side of each rotor.  The voltage and current amplification functions
would be accomplished by twin, large capacitive transformers, similar to
those used in the Swiss M-L converter, discussed in the next section
below.

An improved method of winding inductors, transformers, and motors was
publicized by Toby Grotz (1992).  This invention greatly enhances the
ability to generate magnetic fields with a given amount of wire.  This
invention may be as fundamental to the use of magnetic fields as was
Nikola Tesla's use of rotating magnetic fields for the generation of
alternating current.

George Hathaway in Canada (1991, 1992) has suggested the engineering
requirements necessary to begin to investigate and demonstrate zero
point energy.  He draws together the most practical theoretical aspects
of this work, and explains how they are already at a sufficiently
advanced stage to allow initial experiments to be designed.  He states
that the extraction of energy from such sources is really not an ivory
tower pipe dream, but more a matter of nuts and bolts.  Thus, his
suggestions should serve as a sound basis for those engineers and
researchers to keep a close watch on vacuum energy physics.

The Integrity Institute is interested in providing the new measurement
devices and instrumentation that will be needed to conduct meaningful
experiments in these new advanced energy machine areas.  Tom Valone
(1991) presented an overview of the interests of the Institute, and the
various technical areas they have supported and hope to support in the
future.

Finally, in the important related area of theoretical financing,
Professor Charles Berg (1991) pointed out the relationship between
available investment capital in the current conventional energy resource
and conservation areas, and possible funding in these new innovative
technologies.  He points out that:  "an innovative concept, as initially
applied, usually results in only a small rise in productivity.  However,
immediately afterward, there follows a wave of rapid improvement in the
implementation of the new concept.  This wave is responsible for almost
all the improvements in productivity that the innovation brings to
society.  Still;  without the introduction of the innovative concept,
there would be nothing upon which to improve."  To me, his message to
investors is:  plan on very little return in the short term, and through
licensing and networking agreements, reap a harvest that benefits all
the World in the near term and thereafter.

Reports on Experiments and Working Devices

John and Kevin Moray (1956, 1991) were kind to allow publication of a
portion of their book The Sea of Energy:  the history of T. Henry Moray
and his devices, who from the early 1900s to the 1930s demonstrated to
the US press's satisfaction massive over-unity energy conversion.

"In 1901, T. Henry Moray theorized that energy was coming from within
the earth.  Through continuous experimentation and in spite of the
doubts held by the scientific community of the day, he discovered that
the energy was not coming from the ground but from an outside source
away from the earth.  The energy came in continuous surges, like waves
of the sea, more in the daytime than at night.  At this time Moray had
enough power to light a 16-candle power carbon lamp at about one-half
capacity.  He labeled and defined his "Radiant Energy:  The source of
energy coming from the cosmos to the earth and radiating back from
whence it came."

"Upon completion of his first Radiant Energy Device, many tests and
experiments were conducted for the scientific and public communities.
Channeling the waves of energy was done by way of an antenna.  When set
up and connected to the ground, priming and then tuning, the device
would draw electrical energy.  Results of this experimentation proved
that the power generation had not originated from within the device.
The device, through channeling radiant energy, produced up to 50,000
Watts of power and worked for long periods of time.  For political
reasons many people, organizations, and agencies of the day opposed him
strongly.  Despite the deliberate destruction of the R. E. Device,
threats against his work and his family, and armed attacks by unknown
assailants, T. Henry Moray continued with his dream of harnessing a
usable energy that the world could benefit from, and the same time save
the earth from the many methods of energy retrieval which now scar and
pollute its land, air, and seas."

(As a side note, Moray's first germanium solid-state device
(semiconductor) was submitted to the U. S. Patent Office in 1927, and
was rejected on the basis that it would not work without a heated
cathode.)  (Boy.  Am I glad times have changed.  Whew!)  (That's a sick
joke folks!)  Wake Up!

A complete description of operational electrostatic motors is given in
the book by Oleg Jefimenko (1973).  Some small electrostatic motors can
be operated using only Earth-field antennas.

Paul Brown (1992) describes recent developments in materials technology
that now make it possible to fabricate nonthermal thin-film isotopic
energy converters with a specific power of 24 kiloWatts/kilogram and 5
to 10 years working life at 5 to 10 Watts.  He states:  "This creates
applications never before possible, such as placing the power supply
directly on integrated circuit chips.  The efficiency of the converters
is about 25%, which is two to three times greater than the 6 to 8%
capabilities of current thermoelectric systems."

In a very impressive and I feel extremely important paper, Paul Brown
(1991) described his ability to place radioactive nuclear isotope
material into a resonant tank circuit and extract energy from the
decaying nuclide.  He writes:  "A phenomena known as the 'Beta Voltaic
Effect' is used to directly convert radioactive decay energy into
electricity without going through a thermal cycle.  A great attraction
of isotopic power sources is that radioactive decay energy is several
orders of magnitude greater than chemical energy."  Specifically Paul
uses a strong beta-emitting nuclide, like Krypton-85 or Strontium-90 as
the radioactive material and places it directly into a tunable LC tank
circuit.  He claims that results of 50% conversion efficiencies have
been demonstrated, and greater efficiencies are hoped for in the future.
I have heard that T. Henry Moray had used radioactive substances in his
device in the 1930s.  I wonder if charged particles or charged ions play
an important role in these effects.  Moray King (1992) thinks they do.

Recent research has been conducted by Toby Grotz, Tim Binder, and Ron
Kovac (1992) in order to verify Walter Russell's theories and
experiments.  They write:  "The experiments that Russell conducted in
1927, which were verified by Westinghouse laboratories, have been
repeated.

Russell at that time thought that he had found a novel way to change the
ratio of hydrogen to oxygen in a sealed quartz tube containing water
vapor.    Russell's data indicated that, where there had only been water
vapor consisting of hydrogen and oxygen in the tube, the addition of
inert gasses in the amount of 69% were detected.  The use of magnetic
fields was shown to produce this effect.  The end result of the
experiment was to demonstrate a cheap and efficient method of hydrogen
production for a hydrogen based fuel economy."  Russell also developed
and tested counter-wound sets of coils, each in the shape of overlapping
cones.  The device was based on the "power multiplication principle"
discussed in the many books that he had written.  According to a memo
dated in 1961, the device worked:  "because of the false concept of
gravity which assumes it to be force of attraction which pulls inward
from within instead of a cyclic force which controls the expansion of
cold into heat, and the expansion of heat into cold... Nature's first
principle of power production and the construction of matter is to
produce heat from the cold of space.  The heat thus generated radiates
back into cold to complete the wave cycle which automatically repeats
itself in this ageless universe of infinite continuity."  (This is very
similar to the theories of Victor Schauberger;  Alexandersson, 1982).
On September 10, 1961, Walter and (his wife) Lao Russell reported to
their contacts at NORAD, that the coils had worked and that the
President of the United States could announce to the world that a
"greater, safer power than atomic energy" could be provided for industry
and transportation.  The Russell's were convinced that they had found
and demonstrated a new source of energy and a conversion process for
what is now known as the zero point energy.

Bill Muller has developed the Muller Motor/Generator and presented a
very good review of the theoretical principles in his 1991 referenced
paper.  His motors utilize super powerful permanent magnets with
amorphous metal parts that have practically zero hysteresis losses!
Utilizing their design, based upon an odd-even magnetic pole design
developed in 1852, they describe the creation of a magnetic balance in
the motor which eliminates the work required to remove one pole from the
other no matter how large or how strong the magnetic surface would be.
I liked how Bill talked about powerful permanent magnets:  "It is only
because these super powerful magnets carry enormous ampere pressures
within themselves that they are now able to lift their own weight."
This supports my view that permanent magnets, including planets, are
vast sources of potential energy.  The Muller's are very excited about
the operational characteristics of their motors and generators, and
demonstrated one large motor at the 26th IECEC in Boston, MA.  Their
paper includes a detailed description of their circuits with voltage and
current analyses.  They have obtained very high system efficiencies, and
state that "Up to this point, there is no reason to expect what is
called over-unity either on the motor or the generator."  Bill has
promised to continue his experiments and keep in contact with interested
parties.

The Reed (1991) Magnetic Motor is an electromechanical device that Troy
Reed says runs on magnetic power.  The author has developed a small
prototype and a larger unit that have both undergone several
demonstrations and testing programs.  He has also filed for a Patent
with the Patent Office and the Foreign PTO/EPO.  In his design, eight
permanent magnets are placed on each of four disks.  Two outer disks
remain stationary while the two inner ones are mounted on a common shaft
and are allowed to turn freely.  Videotapes and other information are
available.

The electrical dynamo patented by Barbara Hickox (1991) is an
interesting device.  The design includes a central rotating non-
conductive cylinder into which small cylindrical permanent magnets are
placed.  The interesting part is that the magnets are all positioned
with one pole outward, and located on two spiral lines down the surface
of the rotating cylinder.  Barbara claims that when properly designed,
single-wound coils in the proximity of these rotating magnets will
exhibit power transfers much higher than the power required to turn the
cylinder.  Again, here is the idea of a spiral or cyclic texture within
the substance of existing energy fields.

It must be pointed out here that accurate measurements of high frequency
power can be difficult to make and results can be inferred that are very
much in error (Triner & Hansen, NASA, 1977).  All measurements of input
and output voltages and currents must be very carefully performed.

The Bedini free energy generator (1991) was also discussed.  Complete
plans are given for the construction of a free energy system.  While not
an over-unity device, the battery recharging circuit does allow a
battery to operate for a much longer period of time than it normally
would, thus giving the user that much more energy for free.  However, it
was pointed out that certain circuit components, such as the transistor
numbers, may be in error in these plans, and that a brand new battery
must used.  Refer to Moray King's 1992 paper for more details.

Gary Johnson (1992) reported that electrically induced explosions in
water exhibiting free energy are relatively easy to produce with a 2
micro-farad capacitor charged to 10 kiloVolts.  "Expanding steam does
not seem to be the main cause for the explosions.  Similar explosions
are obtained with significantly different peak currents, which raises
questions about the longitudinal Ampere forces being the primary cause.
It is therefore conceivable that we are tapping a new energy source."
(Of course, this technique may not be the optimum one to extract this
energy.  But it could lead us toward a better understanding of this
source.)

Professor P. T. Pappas from Greece gave an informative review of the
theory and his experiments with the creation of energy in sparks and
discharges.  Pappas points out that in Maxwell's theory, it is assumed
that there is continuity and the closeness of the path for the flow of
every current.  He examines the Cardinal current force law of Ampere,
and claims that energy creation is considered as not binding, but as
possible, according to this Cardinal law as an alternative principle to
the continuous creation hypothesis of Astronomy.  Various inherent arc
oscillations are presented as direct evidence of energy creation.

Wingate Lambertson (1991) discussed the WIN Process as a solid state
method for converting zero-point energy into electrical energy that has
been developed over the past 19 years.  He places a semiconductor
ceramic barrier with a parallel capacitance between an oscillating tank
circuit and a power supply.  He has included test results that indicate
a power input of 84 Watt-sec producing an output of 810 Watt-sec, for an
over-unity ratio of 9.6.

Rhetta Jacobson (1991) summarized an evaluation of Tesla Bladeless pumps
and turbines.  As these pumps use the fluid friction to operate, she
finds that:  "no other pump or engine can match the longevity, economy,
size, safety, silence and vibration free performance of these devices."

While not specially related to energy conversion devices, Glen Rein
(1991) presented results of his research with cell culture bioassays and
the effects of time varying quantum potentials.  I feel this work is
extremely important.  A modified caduceus coil was used to test the
hypothesis that bucking (opposite) electromagnetic fields can cancel
their vector fields and generate a time varying quantum potential (the
"A field," for those in the know).  These experiments prove the
existence of the "A field" that Tom Bearden and others refer to that has
been excluded from the simplified EM equations (thanks to the
simplifications of Heavyside) taught in physics today.  The coil was
shown to dramatically stimulate the growth of lymphocytes in culture
cells, both directly in proximity and indirectly through storing its
information in water.  For those in the health fields:  think very
carefully about what is being said here!  Then contact Glen!

Bruce dePalma (1991) points out that the key to understanding and
explaining the baffling situation of anomalous excess electrical energy
generation in free energy machines lies in a re-interpretation of
magnetism as not being a property of the magnet, but of space itself.
The Primordial Energy Field is then also distorted as a consequence of
the spatial reaction to the centripetal force field existing within a
ROTATING magnetized conductor.  Bruce says that a N- machine/Space Power
Generator is an electrical machine which has the capability of producing
electrical energy with significantly less mechanical power input than
the presently employed induction machines.  In 1978, he constructed such
a rotating device, the Sunburst machine.  In 1985, tests were performed
under the direction of a well-known Professor Emeritus of Electrical
Engineering at Stanford University.  The test report quotes:  "Known for
over 150 years, the Faraday homopolar generator has been claimed to
provide a basis for so-called free energy generation, in that under
certain conditions the extraction of electrical output energy is not
reflected as a corresponding mechanical load to the driving source.
During 1985 I was invited to test such a machine.  While it did not
perform as claimed, repeatable data showed anomalous results that did
not seem to conform to traditional theory.  ... DePalma may been right
in that there is indeed a situation here whereby energy is being
obtained from a previously unknown and unexplained source."

While my research estimates that N-machines usually report over-unity
conversion ratios of 1.00 to 1.20, Bruce reports design improvements
that could result in a machine with an output/input power ratio of 5:1.
Many fundamental questions in electromagnetics are reopened by the
implications of the experiment with a rotating magnetic conductor.  For
those interested in delving more deeply into these questions, I
recommend reading Bruce's paper, and his paper reference's 14-18.

Tom Valone (1991) also presents theoretical and experimental data that
he has obtained with a Faraday disk, or homopolar generator.  He
obtained a measured back torque of 0.17 N-m for a 25 Watt generator
which is in agreement with his theory.  Tom is one of the few
researchers who has been doing accurate measurements on such devices
within the US today.  George Hathaway (1991, 1992) is also continuing to
perform various experiments in Canada.

Richard (Scott) McKie (1991) has designed and tested a small model of a
PODMOD device:  a Power On Demand MODule.  The circuitry invokes Tesla's
theories of electron flow, resonance, and magnetism, combined with
modern theories on high frequency electronics and radio antennas to
generate power directly, without the inefficient conversion of energy
from other sources.  A US patent has been filed and granted.  Scott
claimes to be able to generate output power as much as 4,000 times the
input power.  Prototypes have been built and tested, including
independent tests by accredited specialists.  Plans are currently
underway to build full-scale commercial PODMOD units, to be housed in
standard 40 foot shipping containers, each having a continuous base-load
generating capacity of 10 megaWatts.

Don Kelly (1991) presented a very good review of the Methernitha free
energy machine, also known as the Swiss M-L Converter, or the "Thesta-
Distatica."  The spiritual and communal group of Methernitha is located
in Switzerland, and a videotape might be available from Don at the Space
Energy Association that summarizes their community and shows the device
in operation.  An English transcription of that video is also available
(Methernitha, 1989).  The device contains two counterrotating disks
(about two feet in diameter) that are set in motion by hand.  They
continue to spin thereafter, and the machine generates usable power that
lights or powers small tools.  The device appears to operate
continuously and generates a continuous 3 to 4 kiloWatts power at about
220 Volts and about 10 Amps DC.  From an analysis of Wimshurst
electrostatic generators, this would require a power increase factor, or
over-unity factor of about 20.  Groups of investigative scientists from
Europe and Japan have been allowed to examine the device in the 1980s,
and have all verified these claims without understanding the machines
principles of operation (Nieper, Hans A., 1981).

Methernitha is committed to not release details on their device, as they
believe that present mankind is not ready for such advanced energy
technology.  Their point of view is adequately summarized in a quote
from a typed letter from Methernitha in 1988:

"To surprise present mankind with a free-energy device would literally
mean to pour oil into a world which is already set on fire in too many
places and domains of human life.  What mankind needs is peace, peace of
mind to start with, to have a chance to find back to nature and god, and
not more and further technological support in his strife for pleasure,
which would rather drown him in an ocean of noise, over-action and
pollution in general.  If you can not accept this point of view please
discover a new 'free'-energy device by yourself.  The responsibility for
its publication with all of its consequences will then be yours only.
May peace be with you.  Methernitha."

>From the videotape (or the transcription published in 1989), Methernitha
states:

"This wondermachine is lurked from nature, nothing else.  Nature is the
greatest source of power as well as knowledge which man has, and it
still conceals many secrets, which are only revealed to those, who
approach and tie in them with highest respect and responsibility."  "In
order to understand nature and to perceive its voice, man is obliged to
experience silence and solitude, and it was there, where the knowledge
about this technology was obtained."  "To the educated physicist many a
thing of this machine may seem impossible, maybe even crazy.  Maybe he
is also offended by the conceptions used to explain the whole.  Only
partly we could use the concepts of conventional physical terminology in
order to explain and define only approximately the functions and
properties of the various parts of the machine."  "It has to be
remembered that the established sciences were already many times forced
to change or give up some of their very fundamental concepts.  Think
about Galileo Galilei, in order to name only one example.  Our human
society almost condemned this man as a sorcerer and magician, just
because he investigated and discovered a truth which seemed unacceptable
by the established science of the days."  "The book of knowledge is not
wrong, but it is incomplete, and therefore allows to draw wrong
conclusions."  "We are part of a new era which brings to light many new
facts and new knowledge.  The clothes of nowaday science have become too
tight and should be stripped off, just like the larva of an insect does
with its skin.  Only this will allow a true metamorphosis to take its
course, and finally, at the limits and at the destination of all worldly
knowledge, a universal and unlimited spiritual science, radiating and
beautiful, just as the completed imago of an insect, may give its
blessings and benediction to a renovated humanity."

Tom Bearden (1991) described a Vacuum Triode developed by Sweet.  I have
seen Tom's videotape of this device in operation, when it was operating.
Tom considers the highly nonlinear nucleus of the atom as a pumped phase
conjugate mirror (PPCM).  He likens this effect to a triode tube since
the amplified phase conjugate replica of the signal wave is much like
the amplified output of a triode, and the input to a PPCM is much like a
triode's grid signal input.

Sweet has developed working devices based upon this vacuum triode
concept utilizing paired barium ferrite magnets and resonant circuits.
It should be noted that in order for the device to work, the magnets
were preconditioned by an undisclosed process.  Devices have been
reported and demonstrated to reliable witness that have produced
continuous 6, 500, and 5,000 Watts output from a nine volt DC battery.
Through Tom's theoretical suggestions, the circuit was modified to test
possible antigravity effects.  The test results performed by Sweet alone
indicated a 90% weight reduction of the device itself, from 6 pounds to
about 20 ounces on a spring scale, when the external load was increased
from 0 to 10 Watts.  To my knowledge, no further tests have been
performed with this device, as Sweet has had severe heath and family
difficulties.

Devices Worthy of Future Study

It is difficult to separate which devices should be considered as more
important or better to research than the others listed in this paper.
All have potential merit and application.  However;  for a first step,
what is really needed is repeatable experimental evidence of a new
potential source, to produce the so-called zero point energy, free
energy, or over-unity effects.  As funding is presently limited, the
lack of resources limits our research to simple and uncomplicated
devices.  I would recommend the following devices, in order of
increasing complexity and financial commitment, as worthy of careful
attention and rapid duplication:

Kelly's Soviet Resonant Circuit, A Computer Model and Analyses;
Bedini Free Energy Generator (Brand new motorcycle battery);
Hickox's Electric Dynamo (US Patent No. 4,249,096);
Kelly's Soviet Resonant Circuit;
Russell's Counter-wound Overlapping Conical Coil Designs;
dePalma's and Valone's Homopolar Polar N-Machine Generator;
Brown's Radioactive Decay Resonant Circuit (US Patent No. 4,835,433);
Hyde's Electrostatic Energy Field Power Generating System, (US Patent
No. 4,897,592);
Sweet's Vacuum Triode;
McKie's PODMOD Generation Device;  and
Methernitha's Swiss M-L Converter.

Summary

Of all of the devices reported herein, I know of none that have been
adequately tested and accepted to allow unconditional support of their
claims, nor have any of these devices been replicated or reproduced by
another party to confirm their operation.  The devices that appear most
promising appear to be held as proprietary or secretive for financial,
legal, or philosophical reasons.  This very frustrating situation is
being actively overcome by the creation of a dedicated and growing
network of interested scientists and engineers, that are providing
accurate and honest information transfer, pooling resources, and looking
ahead to create, organize, and provide adequate financial support that
works.

Business Plan

What is needed is an international organization that is committed to the
study of these fields and the support of its researchers.  Such an
organization cannot survive within the United States alone.  What is
proposed is a three step plan:  (1)  The creation of an annual advanced
energy conference to bring together those who will openly discuss ideas,
experiments, and devices;  (2)  The creation of an international non-
profit corporation that would support these activities and extend and
network these conferences internationally;  and (3) The creation of a
financial dividend structure that would allow all participants to gain
from the success of others.  Research and advancement done at the
expense of others must become a thing of the past.

Acknowledgments

I thank all of the researchers and authors that have promoted these
ideas and have placed themselves on the line in the face of so-called
adversity.  I also thank the staff and promoters of the IANS for
conducting this conference, and I thank Tom Bearden for allowing me to
take his place during this conference in his absence.  Finally, I thank
myself and my higher guides for allowing me to be able to continue to
increase my consciousness, to learn to accept knowledge without fear,
and to accurately transmit that knowledge to others.

APPENDIX

INSIGHTS INTO THE PROPRIETARY SYNDROME

By KEN MacNEILL

Cadake Industries
Winter Haven, Florida

PART I

To give you some background on myself, I have been interested in the
energy situation since I can remember.  I have built all kinds of
devices, solar energy panels, windmills, photovoltaic arrays, flywheel
devices, and also carburetors of which I will talk on Sunday.  In my
background I am an accomplished tool and diemaker, moldmaker, been
involved in Design Engineering for the past 12 years, primarily in the
automation area.

My first real involvement with other people in this alternate energy
area was at the Toronto Symposium in 1981 where I met George Hathaway as
well as over 100 other people that believe in the impossible according
to orthodox science.  Since that time I have made myself aware of just
about everything that is happening in this field, and believe me there
are some really fantastic things going on.  The rediscovery of some of
the technology that was lost in the past is finally coming to
realization, for instance the Tesla technology, the Hubbard device, the
Moray approach to tapping into the free energy supply that we're sitting
in without even knowing it.

A friend of mine gave me a real insight possibly without even knowing
it.  He said the problem could only be solved by just considering the
problem of weighing a glass of water at 500 feet under water.  Here you
are under water with a glass of water:  how do you weigh it???

The analogy is the same for us.  Here we sit in the vastness of the
cosmos on top of one of the biggest magnets known to us and we are like
the glass of water.  We are in the vast ocean of energy.  Look around us
and watch just the weather for instance, the next thunderstorm, think of
all the electrical potential being wasted.  That energy is there;  it is
very real.

Tom Bearden, one of our upcoming speakers, may have illustrated it quite
well by the bird sitting on top of the wire with 13,000 volts going
through it.  We all know that it could kill him but it doesn't.  I am
positive that within this group will be the ways and means for making
the energy situation of the future change.

Now to the other side of this coin.  Why has not this technology been
allowed to become established?  We have to look at the 'profit motive'
involved.  If we have free energy, how will they charge for it?  What
will happen to the billions of dollars that the utilities and oil
companies and the government backing these establishments do if we can
give the people independence from the chains of having to pay for
energy?

One question that has been uppermost in my mind for the last year has
been the rhetoric given by our elected representatives about the energy
situation and the amount of money given to small researchers who could
possibly give us a viable approach to becoming energy independent.  Who
gets the government money??  Let me get a little audience participation
in the question.  How many of you have all the money you need for
research in the energy area?  Everyone who has please stand!!!!!  Now
let me mention a few of the names of the companies that get the money.
See if you recognize them:  Exxon, Gulf Oil, General Electric,
Westinghouse, TRW, Exide Storage Battery, all manufacturers or producers
of fossil fuel products.  We need to get away from the fossil fuels for
the future and get into something that can indeed give us a future
because we are rapidly depleting not only our natural resources but our
air and water.  All because of burning fossil fuels.  We fund our
universities and colleges in the most directed of ways.  If you want to
explore the possibilities in some of the more esoteric areas, for
instance the ones you will be hearing about in the next three days,
there is no money for that.  WHY???  Because of the possibility that we
might succeed.  What would our government do if all the American people
could go back and forth to work, heat their homes, run their businesses
without paying taxes on gas and oil?  Consider the fact that all of the
gas stations would go out of business or would have to find other ways
of making money.  Many complimentary businesses would also fold.  But
alas, this is America.  What are we here for???  To perpetuate Big
Business, Big Government, or to advance toward the future, not expending
all of our natural resources but to save them to make the goods of the
future.  Coal and oil both can be used for making all kinds of things
besides fuels;  the list is endless.

It is my feeling that the technology may be already here and may have
been shown to the government.  It even may have been introduced to our
patent office and turned down.  Because as you know, there is no such
thing as a perpetual motion device.  And I agree with the premise
because forever is a long time.

But there are surely some of the devices or parts thereof that have been
introduced to the government or to big business in the past which have
been shelved.  Tesla's transmission device is a classic illustration
probably best known to this group.  What happened is that they removed
the money from him to do his research and effectively stifled this
remarkable man.  How many other times has it happened to someone not so
well known?  At this moment, there are over 3,000 devices or
applications in the patent office that have been branded as security or
put under wraps by the secrecy order, Title 35, U.S. Code (1952)
Sections 181-188.  What is security?  How is it defined?  I have had
many inventors or other scientists tell me that they did not want to
discuss their invention with me or others because they might lose it to
us or we might tell someone else before they got it onto the market.
Believe me, it won't get there by going through the patent process.  It
is my feeling that if such a device were introduced at this level, then
it would be put under the Secrecy Act.  I don't know that I am correct
in this assumption.  But I cannot imagine a government like ours wanting
to commit financial suicide.  So what better way than to brand something
as a secret?

I would like to read the Secrecy Order to you so that you may better
understand my concern.  Please pay close attention.  I think it is very
important.  To you or anyone!!!  Consider your receiving this:


SECRECY ORDER
(Title 35, United States Code (1952), sections 181-188)

NOTICE:  To the applicant above named, his heirs, and any and all of his
assignees, attorneys and agents, hereinafter designated principals:

You are hereby notified that your application as above identified has
been found to contain subject matter, the unauthorized disclosure of
which might be detrimental to the national security, and you are ordered
in nowise to publish or disclose the invention or any material
information with respect thereto, including hitherto unpublished details
of the subject matter of said application, in any way to any person not
cognizant of the invention prior to the date of the order, including any
employee of the principals, but to keep the same secret except by
written consent first obtained of the Commissioner of Patents, under the
penalties of 35 U.S.C. (1952) 182, 186.

Any other application already filed or hereafter filed which contains
any significant part of the subject matter of the above identified
application falls within the scope of this order.  If such other
application does not stand under a security order, it and the common
subject matter should be brought to the attention of the Security Group,
Licensing and Review, Patent Office.

If, prior to the issuance of the secrecy order, any significant part of
the subject matter has been revealed to any person, the principals shall
promptly inform such person of the secrecy order and the penalties for
improper disclosure.  However, if such part of the subject matter was
disclosed to any person in a foreign country or foreign national in the
U.S., the principals shall not inform such person of the secrecy order,
but instead shall promptly furnish to the Commissioner of Patents the
following information to the extent not already furnished:  date of
disclosure;  name and address of the disclosee;  identification of such
part;  and any authorization by a U.S. government agency to export such
part.  If the subject matter is included in any foreign patent
application, or patent, this should be identified.  The principals shall
comply with any related instructions of the Commissioner.

This order should not be construed in any way to mean that the
Government has adopted or contemplates adoption of the alleged invention
disclosed in this application;  nor is it any indication of the value of
such invention.

It is my feeling that something on the order of a so-called 'free energy
device' would receive this treatment.  My only approach would be to go
to the public domain.  That is, get the information or the device out
there to enough people that they could not stop you.  This group looks
like the best group to give this information to.  Hopefully it will
forthcoming in the next three days.

-------

Transcribed from:  PROCEEDINGS;  The Second International Symposium on
Non-Conventional Energy Technology, pp 125-126.

I have been told this was presented on September 23, 1983.

Contact Ken MacNeill at Cadake Industries, P.O. Box 1866, Clayton, GA
30525.

REFERENCES

Introduction

Cheney, Margaret (1981).  Tesla:  Man Out of Time, Prentice Hall
Publishing, NY.
Gurdjieff, G. I. (1963).  Meetings With Remarkable Men, page 185, E. P.
Dutton, NY.
Johnson, Gary L. (1992).  "Searchers for a New Energy Source," IEEE
Power Engineering Review, pages 20-23, January 1992.
King, Llewellen (1991).  "On Solving the Great Problems of the World,"
26th IECEC Luncheon Speech, Boston, MA, August 8, 1991.
Walters, Helen B. (1961).  Nikola Tesla - Giant of Electricity, Thomas
Y. Crowell Comp., NY.

Politics

Anagnoston, Taki N., MD. (1991).  Surviving the AIDS Plague, America
West Publishers.
Bird, Christopher (1991).  The Persecution and Trial of Gaston Naessens,
H. J. Kramer, CA.
Brown, Tom (1988).  The Hindershot Motor Mystery, Borderland Sciences.
Center for Action, Book and Videotape List and Newsletter, PO Box 472,
HCR 31, Sandy Valley, NV 89019, [phone] or [phone],
Newsletter $24/yr.
Coleman, Dr. John (1992).  Conspirators' Hierarchy:  The Story of the
Committee of 300, America West Publishers.
Douglass, M. D., William C., "The Cutting Edge Newsletter," PO Box 888,
Clayton, GA 30525, [phone].
Findley, Paul (1985).  They Dare to Speak Out, Lawrence Hill Books, IL.
Hatonn (dharma) (1990).  Rape of the Constitution (Vols. 1 & 2), America
West Publishers.
Hatonn (dharma) (1990).  Skeletons in the Closet, America West
Publishers.
Lynes, Barry (1989).  The Cancer Cure That Worked!  Fifty Years of
Suppression, ITS Books.
Lynes, Barry (1989).  The Healing of Cancer:  The Cures, the Coverups,
and the Solution Now!,  ITS Books.
MacNeill, Ken (1983).  "Insights into the Proprietary Syndrome," 2nd
International Symposium on Non-Conventional Energy Technology, Atlanta,
GA, pages 125-126.
Project Censored Newsletter, PO Box 310, Cotati, CA 94931, $30/yr.
Resines, Jorge (1988).  The Complex Secret of T. Henry Moray, ITS Books.
Sananda, Hatonn, Ashtar, Nikola Tesla, & Walter Russell (dharma) (1989).
AIDS - The Last Great Plague, Tehachapi Distributing, Inc., CA.
Strecker, Dr. Robert B. (1988).  "The Strecker Memorandum," Videotape
(On AIDS), The Strecker Group, 1501 Colorado Blvd., Eagle Rock, CA
90041, [phone].

Religion

Bashar (Anka, Darryl) (1990).  Blueprint For Change, New Solutions
Publishing , CA.
Cameron, Pam and Fred (1991).  Bridges of Light, Access Centers, PO Box
67420, Scotts Valley, CA 95067, $14.
Connecting Link Magazine, 9392 Whitneyville Rd., Alto, MI 49302-9694,
[phone], $20/yr.
Cosmic Awareness, Revelations of Awareness Newsletter, PO Box 115-K,
Olympia, WA 98507.
Delaforge, Gaetan (1987).  The Templar Tradition in the Age of Aquarius,
Threshold Books, VT.
Festinger, Leon, Henry W. Riecken, and Stanley Schachter (1956).  When
Prophecy Fails, Harper Torchbooks, Harper and Row Publishers, NY.
Fortune, Dion (1957).  Psychic Self-Defense, The Aquarian Press,
England.
Hatonn (dharma) (1991).  Pleiades Connection - Return of the Phoenix,
Volume 1, Tehachapi Distributing, Inc., CA.
Hatonn and St. Germain (dharma) (1991).  Phone Home E. T. - Reach Out
and Touch Someone - Like God, America West Publishers.
Hurtak, J. J. (1978).  The Book of Knowledge:  The Keys of Enoch, Acad.
for Future Sciences.
Kut-Hu-Mi, El Morya, Hilarion, Saint Germain, Hatonn, Soltec, Korton,
Ashtar, Sananda, et. al. (Tuieta) (1992).  Conclave:  4th Meeting,
Portals of Light, IN.
Lazaris (Pursel, Jack) (1987).  The Sacred Journey - You and Your Higher
Self, NPN Pub., FL.
Mary (Kirkwood, Annie) (1991).  Mary's Message to the World, Blue
Dolphin Publishing, CA.
Monroe, Robert A. (1971).  Journeys Out of the Body, Doubleday &
Company, Inc., NY.
Monroe, Robert A. (1985).  Far Journeys, Doubleday & Company, Inc., NY.
The Pleiadians (Marciniak, Barbara) (1992).  Bringers of the Dawn, Bear
& Company Pub., NM.
Ra (Rueckert, Carla) (1984).  The RA Material, Whitford Press, PA.
Ramtha (Knight, J. Z.) (1986).  Ramtha, Sovereignty, Inc., WA.
Rashid, Isa, and Edward Meier, English translation by J. H. Ziegler and
B. L. Greene (1992).   The Talmud of Jmmanuel, Wild Flower Press, P.O.
Box 230893, Tigard, OR 97224.
Sananda (dharma) (1989).  And They Called His Name Immanuel, I Am
Sananda, America West Publishers.
Seth (Roberts, Jane) (1986).  Dreams, Evolution, and Value Fulfillment,
Prentice Hall Press, NY.
Thoth (Melchizedek, Drunvalo) (1992).  "Flower of Life Meditation and
Workshop," Set of Six Videotapes, San Jose Book Store, 1231 Kentwood
Av., San Jose, CA 95129, [phone].

Sex

Hatonn (dharma) (1991).  God Said:  Let There Be Light - and Creation
Became, Pleiades Connection - Volume 2, Tehachapi Distributing, Inc. CA.
Hatonn and St. Germain (dharma) (1991).  Science of the Cosmos -
Transformation of Man, Pleiades Connection, Volume 3, Tehachapi
Distributing, Inc. CA.
Russell, Walter (1926).  The Universal One, U. of Science and
Philosophy.
Russell, Walter (1947).  The Secret of Light, U. of Science and
Philosophy.
Russell, Walter (1989).  A New Concept of the Universe, U. of Science
and Philosophy.
Russell, Walter and Lao (1981).  Atomic Suicide,  U. of Science and
Philosophy.

UFOs and Crop Circles

Andrews, Colin, and Pat Delgado (1989).  Circular Evidence, Phanes
Press, MI.
Andrews, Colin (1991).  "Undeniable Evidence," Videotape, Ark Soundwaves
of Glastonbury, PO Box 1395 - BA6 9FE, Glastonbury, England, about
$35.00.
Bartholomew, Alick (Ed.) (1991).  Crop Circles - Harbingers of World
Change, Gateway Books, The Great Tradition, CA.
Carr, Otis T., "Otis T. Carr and OTC Enterprises Information File," PEA
Research.
Elders, Brit and Lee, and Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens (1979).  UFO -
Contact from the Pleiades, Volume 1, Genesis III Publishing, AZ.
Elders, Brit and Lee, and Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens (1983).  UFO -
Contact from the Pleiades, Volume 2, Genesis III Publishing, AZ.
Friedman, Stanton T. (1991).  "Free Book List," 79 Pembroke Crescent,
Fredericton, New Brunswick E3B 2V1, Canada.
Hynek, Dr. J. Allen and Philip J. Imbrogno (1987).  Night Siege - The
Hudson Valley UFO Sightings, Ballantine Books, NY.
Kinder, Gary (1987).  Light Years, The Atlantic Monthly Press, NY.
Lazar, Robert (1992).  The Lazar Tape (Videotape), Tri-Dot Productions,
1324 S. Eastern, Las Vegas, NV, 89104, $33.45.
Leslie, Desmond, and George Adamski (1953).  Flying Saucers Have Landed,
The British Book Center, NY.
Lindemann, Michael (Ed.) (1991).  UFOs and the Alien Presence:  Six
Viewpoints, The 2020 Group, CA.
Noyes, Ralph (1990).  The Crop Circle Enigma, Gateway Books, The Great
Traditions, CA.
Sananda (dharma) (1989). Space-Gate, America West Publishers.
Stevens, Wendelle, and August Roberts (1985).  UFO Photographs Around
the World Vols. 1 and 2, America West Publishers.
UFO Books, PO Box 1053, 714 First Street, Florence, AZ 85232.
UFO Video Clearinghouse, PO Box 342, Yucaipa, CA 92399-0342, (714) 795-
3361.
Walters, Ed and Francis (1990).  The Gulf Breeze Sightings, William
Morrow and Co., Inc., NY.

Patents

Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks, Box 9, Washington DC 20231.
Patent Information Clearinghouse, 1500 Partridge Avenue, Building 7,
Sunnyvale, CA 94087, [phone], FAX [phone].

Brown, Paul (1989).  "Apparatus for Direct Conversion of Radioactive
Decay Energy to Electrical Energy,"  US Patent No. 4,835,433.
Carr, Otis (1959).  "Amusement Device,"  (i.e. A Flying Saucer), US
Patent No. 2,912,244.
Nikola Tesla Museum (1956).  Nikola Tesla Lectures, Patents, and
Articles, Health Res., CA.
Hickox, Barbara, (1981).  "Electric Dynamo," US Patent No. 4,249,096.
Hyde, William (1990).  "Electrostatic Energy Field Power Generating
System," US Patent No. 4,897,592.
Johnson, Howard (1979).  "Permanent Magnetic Motor,"  US Patent No.
4,151,431.
McKie, Richard L. (1992).  "A Power Supply Comprising Two Tank
Circuits," US Patent No. 5,146,395.
Merritt, Thomas, and Mario Pasichinskyj (1985).  "Linear Reciprocating
Electrical Generator,"  US Patent No. 4,500,827.
Pasichinskyj, Mario (1990).  "Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator," US
Patent No. 4,904,926.
Richardson, Frank B. (1978).  "Electromagnetic Converter with Stationary
Variable-Reluctance Members," US Patent No. 4,077,001.
Shoulders, Kenneth (1991).  "Energy Conversion Using High Charge
Density,"  US Patent No. 5,018,180 (in the last pages).
Tesla, Nikola (1891)  "Electro-Magnetic Motor,"   US Patent No. 464,666.
Trombly, Adam (1982).  "Closed Path Homopolar Machine," International
Patent (PCT) H02K 31/00, 39/00.

Books and Reports

Alexandersson, Olof (1982).  Living Water, Gateway Books, The Great
Tradition, CA.
Aspden, Harold A. (1989).  "The Theory of the Gravitation Constant,"
Physical Essays, Vol. 2, No. 2, pages 173-179.
Aspden, Harold A. (1991).  "The Theory of Antigravity," Physical Essays,
Vol. 4, no. 1, pages 13-19.
Bearden, Thomas E. (1989).  Gravitobiology:  A New Biophysics, Tesla
Book Company.
Bearden, Thomas E. (1992).  "Background for Pursuing Scalar
Electrodynamics," Association of Distinguished American Scientists.
Bearden, Thomas E. (1988).  "Maxwell's Original Quaternion Theory Was a
Unified Field Theory of Electromagnetics and Gravitation," Proceedings
of the International Tesla Society, 1988, ITS Books..
Bearden, Thomas E. (1988).  AIDS:  Biological Warfare, Tesla Book
Company.
Bearden, Thomas E. (1986).  FER-DE-LANCE:  A Briefing on Soviet Scalar
E-M Weapons, Tesla Book Company.
Bearden, Thomas E. (1986).  Analysis of Scalar Electromagnetics, Tesla
Book Company.
Cathie, Bruce L. (1990).  The Energy Grid - Harmonic 695:  The Pulse of
the Universe, America West Publishers.
Childress, David H. (1992).  Anti-Gravity and the World Grid, ITS Books.
Childress, Hatcher (1985).  The Anti-Gravity Handbook, Adventures
Unlimited Press, IL.
DeMeo, James (1989).  The Orgone Accumulator Handbook:  Construction
Plans, Experimental Use, and Protection Against Toxic Energy, ITS Books.
Heinlein, Robert (1961).  Stranger in a Strange Land, Ace/Putnam Books,
NY.
Hoagland, Richard C. (1987).  The Monuments of Mars, North Atlantic
Books, CA.
Hooper, W. J. (1974).  New Horizons in Electric, Magnetic and
Gravitational Field Theory, Electrodynamic Gravity, Inc.
King, Moray B. (1989).  Mapping the Zero-Point Energy, ITS Books.
Krafft, C. F. (1955).  The Ether and its Vortices, ITS Books.
Meyer, Stanley A. (1990).  The Birth of New Technology:  Water Fuel Cell
Technical Brief, Water Fuel Cell International Headquarters, 3792
Broadway, Grove City, OH 43123.
Moray, John and Kevin (1956).  The Sea of Energy in Which the Earth
Floats, Cosray Res. Inst.
Nieper, Hans A. (1981).  Revolution in Technology, Medicine, and
Society, pages 359-362, (available via Tachyon Energy Research, CA,
[phone]).
Sigma, Rho (1977).  Ether-Technology, A Rational Approach to Gravity
Control, ITS Books.

Conferences

IECEC, 26th Proceedings (1991) (Boston, MA).  American Nuclear Society,
555 North Kensington Avenue, La Grange Park, IL 60525, [phone].
IECEC, 27th Proceedings (1992) (San Diego, CA).  Society of Automotive
Engineers, 400 Commonwealth Drive, Warrendale, PA 15096-0001 (412) 776-
4841.
International Tesla Symposium Proceedings (1984, 1986, 1988, 1990,
1992).  International Tesla Society, PO Box 5636, Security, CO 80931.

Societies and Publications

Academy for Future Science, PO Box FE, Los Altos, CA 95031.
America West Publishers, PO Box 2208, Carson City, NV 87702, (800) 729-
4131.
Association of Distinguished American Scientists, PO Box 1472,
Huntsville, AL 35807.
Borderland Sciences Research Foundation, PO Box 429, Garberville, CA
95440-0429.
Cosray Research Institute, 2502 South 4th East Street, Salt Lake City,
UT 84115.
Electric Spacecraft Journal, PO Box 18387, Ashville, NC 28814, (704)
252-8083, $24/yr.
Electrodynamic Gravity, Inc., Akron, OH 44310.
Gravity Power Research Association, 36 Mountain Road, Burlington, MA
01803.
Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, 4030 Braker Lane W., Suite
300, Austin, TX 78759.
International Tesla Society, 330-A West Unitah Street, Suite 215,
Colorado Springs, CO 80905-1095, $20/yr.
ITS (International Tesla Society) Books, High Energy Enterprises, PO Box
5636, Security, CO 80931, [phone].
The Mars Mission, Society for the Study of Native Arts and Sciences,
2800 Woolsey Street, Berkeley, CA 94705.
PEA Research, 9638 Soaring Oaks Drive, Elk Grove, CA 95758.
Quantum Biology Research Laboratory, Cotati Research Institute, PO Box
60653, Palo Alto,   CA 94306.
Space Energy Association, PO Box 11422, Clearwater, FL 34616, $35/yr.
Tesla Book Company, PO Box 121873, Chula Vista, CA 91912, (619) 437-
8515.
Tesla Incorporated, 820 Bridger Circle, Craig, CO 81625.
Tesla Incorporated Computer BBS [phone] (300/1200/2400, 8, N, 1).
Tehachapi Distributors, PO Box 1911, Suite 122, Tehachapi, CA, 93581,
[phone].
University of Science and Philosophy, Swannanoa, PO Box 520, Waynesboro,
VA 22980, [phone], [phone].

Free Energy Theoretical Considerations

Aspden, Harold (1991).  "The Principles Underlying Regenerative Free
Energy Technology," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 336-340.
Aspden, Harold (1992).  "The Electronic Heat Engine," 27th IECEC, pages
4.357-4.363.
Bearden, Thomas E., and Walter Rosenthal (1991).  "On A Testable
Unification Of Electromagnetics, General Relativity, And Quantum
Mechanics," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 487-492, and Association of
Distinguished American Scientists.
Bearden, Thomas (1992).  "A Redefinition of the Energy Ansatz, Leading
to a Fundamentally New Class of Nuclear Interactions," 27th IECEC, pages
4.303-4.310, and Association of Distinguished American Scientists.
Berg, Charles A. (1991).  "Innovation And Energy Use," 26th IECEC, Vol.
4, pages 382-387.
Grotz, Toby (1991).  "Development Of A Particle Beam Weapon Based On
Nikola Tesla's Design Of 1937," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 410-415.
Grotz, Toby (1991).  "Wireless Transmission Of Power, An Attempt To
Verify Nikola Tesla's 1899 Colorado Springs Experiments, Results Of
Research and Experimentation," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 404-409.
Grotz, Toby (1992).  "The Use of Mirror Image Symmetry in Coil Winding,
Applications and Advantages in Magnetic Field Generation," 27th IECEC,
pages 4.311-4.313.
Hathaway, George D. (1991).  "From Anti-Gravity to Zero-Point Energy:  A
Technical Review of Advanced Propulsion Concepts," AIDAA/AIAA/DGLR/JSASS
22nd International Electric Propulsion Conference, Viareggio, Italy.
Hathaway, George D. (1991).  "Zero-Point Energy:  A New Prime Mover?
Engineering Requirements For Energy Production & Propulsion From Vacuum
Fluctuations," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 376-381.
Inomata, Shiuji (1991).  "New Paradigm And N-Machine," 26th IECEC, Vol.
4, pages 331-335.
Kelly, Donald A. (1991).  "The Enhanced Tank Circuit As A Free Energy
Module," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 424-428.
Kelly, Donald A. (1992).  "An Enhanced Quad-Disc Electrostatic
Generator," 27th IECEC, pages 4.351-4.356.
King, Moray (1991).  "Tapping The Zero-Point Energy As An Energy
Source," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 364-369.
King, Moray B. (1992).  "Progress and Results in Zero-Point Energy
Research," 27th IECEC, pages 4.297-4.302.
LaViolette, Paul A. (1991).  "Subquantum Kinetics:  Exploring The Crack
In The First Law," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 352-357.
Nichelson, Oliver (1991).  "Nikola Tesla's Later Energy Generation
Designs," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 433-438.
Surgalla, Lynn A. (1991).  "Nonlinear Dynamics:  Mathematical Physics
For 21st Century Technology (A Tutorial For Engineers)," 26th IECEC,
Vol. 4, pages 394-399.
Valone, Thomas (1991).  "Non-Conventional Energy And Propulsion
Methods," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 439-444.
VanVoorhies, Kurt, and James Smith (1991).  "The Promises And Prospects
of Worldwide Wireless Power Transfer:  An Overview," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4,
pages 341-346.
Zoleta, Jose C. (1991).  "Triac Alternator Flywheel Motor (TAF-13):  An
Alternative Source Of Energy," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 358-363.

Reports on Experiments and Working Devices

Bearden Thomas E., and Floyd Sweet (1991).  "Utilizing Scalar
Electromagnetics To Tap Vacuum Energy," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 370-
375, and Association of Distinguished American Scientists.
Bedini, John C. (1991).  "The Bedini Free Energy Generator," 26th IECEC,
Vol. 4, pp 451-456.
Brown, Paul M. (1991).  "Current Status And Future Research With
Resonant Nuclear Generators," 26th IECEC, Vol. 6, pages 132-134.
Brown, Paul M. (1992).  "Solid State Isotopic Power Source for Computer
Chips," 27th IECEC, pages 4.345-4.350.
Grotz, Toby, Tim Binder, and Ron Kovac (1992).  "Novel Means of Hydrogen
Production Using Dual Polarity Control and Walter Russell's Experiments
with Zero Point Energy," 27th IECEC, pages 4.339-4.344.
Hickox, Barbara (1991).  "An Electrical Dynamo That Is A New Technology
Over The Generation Of Electricity By Induction," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4,
pages 457-460.
Jacobson, Rhetta (1991).  "The Tesla Bladeless Pumps And Turbines," 26th
IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 445-450.
Jefimenko, Oleg D. (1973).  Electrostatic Motors, Their History, Types,
and Principles of Operation, ITS Books.
Johnson, Gary (1992).  "Electrically Induced Explosions in Water," 27th
IECEC, pp 4.335-4.338.
Kelly, Donald A. and Patrick G. Bailey (1991).  "The Methernitha Free
Energy Machine, The Swiss M-L Converter," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 467-
472.
Lambertson, Wingate A. (1991).  "History And Status Of The WIN Process,"
26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 461-466.
McKie, Richard L. (1991).  "PODMOD - Power Generation For A Brave New
World Order," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 479-483.
Methernitha (1989).  "Informationsfilm Thesta-Distatica:  Sound Track
Transcription," Tagungsband Proceedings, Internationaler Kongress fur
Freie Energie, Einsiedeln, Switzerland 1989, ISBN 3-9520025-1-8.
Moray, John E., and Kevin R. Moray (1991).  "The Sea Of Energy:  A Means
For The Preservation Of The Environment By Drawing Kinetic Energy From
Space," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 347-351.
Muller, William J. F. (1991).  "Muller Motor / Generator Principles,"
26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 388-393B.
dePalma, Bruce (1991).  "Magnetism As A Distortion Of A Pre-Existent
Primordial Energy Field And The Possibility Of Extraction Of Electrical
Energy Directly From Space," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 429-432.
Pappas, P. T. (1991).  "Energy Creation In Electrical Sparks And
Discharges:  Theory And Direct Experimental Evidence," 26th IECEC, Vol.
4, pages 416-423.
Reed, Troy G. (1991).  "The Reed Magnetic Motor:  The Motor Of
Tomorrow," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 484-486.
Rein, Glen (1991).  "Utilization Of A Cell Culture Bioassay For
Measuring Quantum Potentials Generated From A Modified Caduceus Coil,"
26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 400-403.
Triner, James E,. and Irving G. Hansen (1977).  "Electric Vehicle Power
Train Instrumentation - Some Constraints and Considerations," ERDA/NASA
1011/77/1 report NASA TM X-73629.
Valone, Thomas (1991).  "The One-Piece Faraday Generator:  Research
Results," 26th IECEC, Vol. 4, pages 473-478.

END.




--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: California UFO Sightings 1947-1987
Keywords: cia, mj12, bush, rockefeller, rothschild
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:44:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Lines: 1089


---------------------------------------------------------------------



Message #7645 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:18
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA PBB Unknowns, 1/2

California sightings from the Project Blue Book Unknowns:
-+---------------------------------------------------------------------------

       July 6, 1947; Fairfield-Suisan Air Base, California. Daytime.
       Witnesses:  Army Air Forces Capt. and Mrs. James Burniston.
       Watched for 1 minute while one object having no wings or tail
       rolled from side-to-side three times and then flew away very fast
       to the southeast.

       July 8, 1947; Muroc Air Base, California. 9:30 a.m. PDT.
       Witnesses:  lst Lt. Joseph McHenry, T/Sgt Ruvolo, S/Sgt Nauman,
       Miss Janette Scotte. Watched for an unstated length of time
       while two disc-shaped or spherical objects--silver and apparently
       metallic--flew a wide circular pattern, and then one of them
       later flew a tighter circle.

       July 29, 1947; Hamilton Air Base, California. 2:50 p.m. PDT.
       Witnesses:  Assistant Base Operations Officer Capt. William
       Rhyerd, ex-AAF B-29 pilot Ward Stewart. Watched for unknown
       length of time while two round, shiny, white objects with
       estimated 15-25 foot diameters, flew 3-4 times the apparent speed
       of a P-80, also in sight. One object flew straight and level;
       the other weaved from side-to-side like an escort fighter.

       Sept. 23, 1948; San Pablo, California.  12 noon.  Witnesses:
       Sylvester Bentham and retired U.S. Army Col. Horace Eakins. Two
       objects:  one, a buff or grey rectangle with vertical lines; the
       other a translucent "amoeba" with a dark spot near the center.
       The arms of the "amoeba" undulated. Both objects travelled very
       fast.

       Dec. 3, 1948; Fairfield-Suisan AFB, California. 8:15 p.m.
       Witness:  USAF Sgt., control tower operator.  One round, white
       light flew for 25 seconds with varying speed, bouncing motion,
       and finally a rapid erratic climb.

       April 4, 1949; Merced, California. 10:20 p.m.  witness:  William
       Parrott, former Air Force pilot and major.  One generally round
       object with a curved bottom and dull coloring.  The object gave
       off a clicking sound until overhead.  Parrott's dog reacted. 35
       seconds.

       May 6, 1949; Livermore, California. 9:35 a.m.  Witness:  C. G.
       Green. Two shiny, disc-like objects rotated around each other
       and banked.  Then one shot upwards with a grey trail and rejoined
       the other.  The sighting lasted 5 minutes.

       Mar. 13, 1951; McClellan AFB, California. 3:20 p.m. Witnesses:
       USAF lst Lt. B.J. Hastie, Mrs. Rafferty. A cylinder with twin
       tails, 200' long and 90' wide, turned north and flew at
       incredible speed.  Two minutes.

       Sept. 6, 1951; Claremont, California.  7:20 p.m.  (not really
       clear).  Witnesses:  S/Sgt W.T. Smith, M/Sgt L.L. Duel (?). Six
       orange lights in an irregular formation, flew straight and level
       into a coastal fog bank after 3-4 minutes.

       March 24, 1952; 60 miles west of Pt. Concepcion, California.
       8:45 a.m.  Witnesses:  B-29 navigator and radar operator.  One
       target tracked for 20-30 seconds at estimated 3,000 m.p.h.

       April 15, 1952; Santa Cruz, California.  7:40 p.m.  Witness:  Mr.
       Hayes, brother of Master Sergeant. Two faint objects observed
       flying fast along the horizon for 6-8 seconds, using 20x spotting
       telescope.

       May 1, 1952; George AFB, California.  10:50 a.m.  Witnesses:
       three men on the arms range, plus one Lt. Colonel 4 miles away.
       Five flat-white discs about the diameter of a C-47's wingspan
       (95') flew fast, made a 90^ turn in a formation of three in front
       and two behind, and darted around, for 15-30 seconds.

       May 9, 1952; George AFB, California.  5:20 p.m.  Witness:  A/lc
       G.C. Grindeland. One dull white, arrowhead-shaped object flew
       straight and level for 10 seconds.

       July 26, 1952; Williams, California.  Case missing from official
       files.

       July 29, 1952; Merced, California.  3:44 or 4:35 p.m.  Witnesses:
       Herbert Mitchell and one employee.  One dark, discus-shaped
       object, trailed by a silvery light 2 lengths behind, tipped on
       its side, dove, hesitated and then circled very fast during the 2
       minute sighting.

       Aug. 1, 1952; Lancaster, California.  1:14 a.m.  Witnesses:
       sheriff's deputies and other persons, one named Mallette. Two
       brilliant red lights hovered and maneuvered for 5 minutes.

       Aug. 18, 1952; Fairfield, California.  12:50 a.m.  Witnesses:
       three policemen.  One object changed color like a diamond, and
       changed directions during the 30 minute sighting.

       Aug. 19, 1952; Red Bluff, California.  2:38 p.m.  Witness:
       Ground Observer Corps observer Albert Lathrop. Two objects,
       shaped like fat bullets, flew straight and level, very fast for
       25 seconds.

       Sept. 14, 1952; Santa Barbara, California. 8:40 p.m. Witness:
       USAF C-54 transport pilot Tarbutton.  One blue-white light
       travelled straight and level, then went up.  Seen for 30 seconds.

       Sept. 27, 1952; Inyokern, California.  10 p.m.  Witnesses:  two
       couples, using a 5x telescope.  One large, round object, which
       went through the color spectrum every 2 seconds, was seen to fly
       straight and level for 15 minutes.

       Dec. 28, 1952; Marysville, California.  Case missing from
       official files.

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7646 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:19
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA PBB Unknowns, 2/2

California sightings from the Project Blue Book Unknowns:
-+---------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Jan. 10, 1953; Sonoma, California.  3:45 p.m.  or 4 p.m.
       Witnesses:  retired Col. Robert McNab, and Mr. Hunter of the
       Federal Security Agency. One flat object, like a pinhead, made
       three 360* right turns in 9 seconds, made abrupt 90* turns to the
       right and left, stopped, accelerated to original speed and
       finally flew out of sight vertically after 60-75 seconds.

       Jan. 28, 1953; Pt. Mugu, California.  1 p.m.  Witness:  R.W.
       Love, owner of Love Diving Co., engaged in retrieving radio-
       controlled drones.  An 18-20' white, flat disc flew straight and
       level, overhead, for 6 minutes.

       Jan. 28, 1953; Corona, California.  6:05 p.m.  Witness:  USAF
       T/Sgt. George Beyer. Five 25' green spheres flew in V-formation,
       then changed to trail formation at which time the end objects
       turned red.  Sighting lasted 12 minutes.

       Feb. 20, 1953; Pittsburg-Stockton, California. #1 time unknown;
       #2, 10:30 p.m.  Witnesses:  USAF B-25 bomber pilots. #1 was a
       bright yellow light seen for 8 minutes.  #2 was a bright light
       which flew on a collision course, dimmed and climbed away fast.

       Aug. 20, 1953; near Castle AFB, California. 9:05 p.m.
       Witnesses:  crew of TB-29 bomber/trainer plane.  One greyish oval
       object made four passes at the airplane (three times at 10-20
       miles distance), then dived vertically as if two objects.

       Dec. 24, 1953; El Cajon, California.  8:04 a.m.  Witnesses:  U.S.
       Navy Lts. J.B. Howard and L.D. Linhard, flying F9F-2 jet
       fighters.  Ten silver, oval objects flew at more than 400 kts.
       (450 m.p.h.), straight and level, for 5 minutes.

       Dec. 28, 1953; Marysville, California.  11:55 a.m.  Witness:
       Yuba County Airport Manager Dick Brandt. One saucer, with a
       brilliant blue light, reflecting on a nearby building, hovered
       briefly during the 1.5 minute observation.

       May 10, 1954; Elsinore, California.  12:40 p.m.  Witness:  U.S.
       Marine Corps Squadron Leader D.R. Higgin, flying an F3D-2 jet
       fighter.  One dark gunmetal delta-shaped object, 22' long and 10'
       wide, with a fin on the top, descended at a 25-30' angle under
       the lead airplane of a formation, and over the airplane of
       Higgin. Sighting lasted a few seconds.

       July 30, 1954; Los Angeles, California. 10:15 a.m. Witness:
       Hughes Aircraft test pilots Englert and Peterson, flying a B-25
       bomber.  One metallic, pencil-shaped object flew slowly or
       hovered for an unstated length of time.

       Sept. 21, 1954; Barstow, California.  1 a.m.  Witnesses:  two
       local policemen, four U.S. Marine Corps police, one highway
       patrolman.  One red-orange ball giving off sparks, and a smaller
       light, made a zigzag descent and then hovered.  Total of 20
       minutes.

       Feb. 2, 1955; Miramar Naval Air Station, California. 11:50 a.m.
       Witness:  USN Cmdr. J.L. Ingersoll.  One highly polished sphere,
       with reddish-brown coloring, fell, then instantly accelerated to
       1,000-1,500 m.p.h.

       June 6, 1956; Banning, California.  5:30 a.m.  Witness:  Mr.
       Bierman. One thin disc with a small dome, shimmering silver,
       hovered about 100 yards away for 8-10 seconds, then zoomed up.

       March 14, 1958; Healdsburg, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. W.F. Cummings and one other.  A 3' round, black
       object touched the ground and then took off.  Watched for 2
       minutes.

       Sept. 10, 1960; Ridgecrest, California. 9:50 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. M.G. Evans. Two light gray glowing objects, saucer
       or boomerang-shaped, which swished when accelerating.  Seen 1-2
       seconds each.

       Nov. 27, 1960; Chula Vista, California. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses:
       Mr. and Mrs. L.M. Hart. One orange-red point of light made huge
       circles and stopped during the 20-30 minute sighting.

       Sept. 14, 1963; Susanville, California. 3:15 p.m. Witness:
       E.A. Grant, veteran of 37 years training forest fire lookouts for
       the U.S. Forest Service. One round object intercepted a long
       object and either attached itself to the latter or disappeared.
       Sighting lasted l0 minutes.

       Aug. 15, 1964; Yosemite National Park, California. 8:15 a.m.
       Witnesses:  E.J. Haug, of the San Francisco Orchestra and the San
       Francisco Conservatory of Music; and C.R. Bubb, a high school
       mathematics teacher.  Three bright silver, round objects, in a
       stack formation, flew very fast, changing positions within the
       formation.  The sound of rushing air was heard during the 3-4
       second sighting.

       April 30, 1966; Sacramento, California. 3:15 a.m. Witness:
       Anita Miller. One light moved around the sky for 2.5 hours.  No
       further detail in files.

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7647 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:20
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 1/8

 Report #: 2
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 10-20-1985
  Subject: SANTA MONICA, CALIF

CASE TYPE:  CE I - NOCTURNAL LIGHT
     DATE:  14 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:  2048 HOURS
     CFN#:  0128
   SOURCE:  NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 ----------------------------------------
SIX WITNESSES REPORTED OBSERVING A LARGE OBJECT IN THE WESTERN SKY.  THE
WITNESSES SAID THAT THE OBJECT APPEARED TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF FLUORESCENT
LIGHTING ON IT.  THE DISTANCE OF THE OBJECT IS UNKNOWN THE DURATION IS ALSO
UNKNOWN.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 3
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 10-21-1985
  Subject: KERMAN, CALIF

CASE TYPE:  CE I - DAYLIGHT SIGHTING
     DATE:  15 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:  1213 HOURS
     CFN#:  0129
   SOURCE:  NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 --------------------------------------------
ONE WITNESS REPORTED SIGHTING A VERY LARGE OBJECT AT A HIGH ALTITUDE.  THE
WITNESS SAID THAT THE OBJECT WAS MOVING AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED.  THE WITNESS
SAID THAT THE OBJECT LOOKED LIKE A WHITE BALL.  HE ALSO SAID THAT THE OBJECT
DID NOT LEAVE A VAPOR TRAIL.  THE WITNESS DID NOT DETECT ANY SOUND COMING FROM
THE OBJECT.  THE DURATION OF THE SIGHTING WAS 15 TO 20 SECONDS.
 ------------------------------------------

 Report #: 9
     From: SYSOP
Date Sent: 10-22-1985
  Subject: LOS ANGELES, CALIF

CASE TYPE:  CE I - DAYLIGHT SIGHTING
     DATE:  18 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:  1515 HOURS
     CFN#:  0135
   SOURCE:  NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 ---------------------------------------
FIVE WITNESSES REPORTED OBSERVING THREE WHITE OBJECTS.  THESE OBJECTS WERE
GIVING OFF ALOT OF SURFACE REFLECTION THE WIT- NESSES SAID.  THE OBJECTS
APPEARED TO BE MOVING AT A VERY SLOW SPEED.  THE OBJECTS WERE MOVING IN A EAST
TO NORTH NORTHWEST COURSE.  THE WITNESSES SAID THAT THE ALTITUDE OF THE
OBJECTS WERE APPROXIMATELY 500 FEET GIVE OR TAKE A LITTLE.  THE OBJECTS WERE
ABOUT THREE FEET IN DIAMETER.  ONE WITNESS STATED HE WORK IN THIS AREA FOR A
LONG TIME AND WAS FAMILAR WITH THE AIR TRAFFIC.  THE WITNESSES SAID THAT WHILE
THE SIGHTING WAS GOING ON THERE WASN'T ANY AIR TRAFFIC AT ALL OVER THE LOS
ANGELES, INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.  THE WITNESSES ALSO SAID THAT WHILE THE
SIGHTING WAS GOING ON THEY SAW THE GOODYEAR BLIMP COMING THERE WAY TOWARD THE
AIRPORT BUT THEN THE BLIMP TURNED AND STARTED TO LEAVE THE AREA AND DID SO.
THE WITNESSES ALSO SAID THAT THERE WERE PROBABLY OTHERS WATCHING BECAUSE THIS
IS IN A INDUSTRIAL AREA.  THE DURATION OF THE SIGHTING WAS 20 MINUTES.

IF ANY PERSON HAVING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS CASE PLEASE LEAVE US A
NOTE ON THE E-MAIL SYSTEM.  THANK YOU
 --------------------------------------

 Report #: 11
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 10-23-1985
  Subject: SANTA MONICA, CA

CASE TYPE:  CE I - NL
     DATE:  13 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:  2130 HOURS
     CFN#:  0137
   SOURCE   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 ---------------------------------------
ONE WITNESS REPORTED OBSERVING A BIG PALE GREEN BALL OF LIGHT AT A ANGULAR
DESCENT.  THE WITNESS SAID THAT THE GREEN BALL OF LIGHT WAS MOVING TO THE
NORTH-WEST FOR ABOUT OR APPROXIMATELY THREE SECONDS.   THE WITNESS SAID THAT
THE GREEN BALL OF LIGHT WAS AT A LOW ALITIUDE.  THE DURATION OF THE SIGHTING
WAS THREE SECONDS.
 --------------------------------------

 Report #: 13
     From: SYSOP
Date Sent: 11-14-1985
  Subject: NEWPORT BEACH, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I
     DATE:   14 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:   0100 HOURS
     CFN#:   0139
   SOURCE:   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 ----------------------------------------
BRONZE COLOR OBJECT WITH PAINTED NOSE WENT INTO A HIGH SPEED VERTICAL DIVE
THEN LEVELED OFF.  WITNESSES SAID OBJECT WAS TRIANGULAR SHAPED.  DESCRIBED BY
TWO WITNESSES AS BEING HUGE.
 ---------------------------------------

 Report #: 16
     From: SYSOP
Date Sent: 11-14-1985
  Subject: ATASCADERO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE II
     DATE:   21 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:   2210 HOURS
     CFN#:   0142
   SOURCE:   NAT'L REPORTING CENTER
 ------------------------------------
ONE WITNESS OBSERVED A RECTANGULAR SHAPED OBJECT WITH COLORED LIGHTS AT WHAT
WAS DESCRIBED TO BE A LOW ALTITUDE.  DURATION OF SIGHTING WAS TWO MINUTES.
 ------------------------------------

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7648 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:22
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 2/8

 Report #: 18
     From: SYSOP
Date Sent: 11-14-1985
  Subject: SAN RAFAEL, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I - DS
     DATE:   25 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:   0830 HOURS
     CFN#:   0144
   SOURCE:   NAT'L REPORTING CENTER
 ------------------------------------
A WITNESS REPORTED SEEING A WIDE-WINGED OBJECT WHICH WAS CURVED IN FRONT AND
HAD COLORED LIGHTS.  OBJECT WAS AT FIRST STATIONARY,  AND THEN MOVED ABOUT
BEFORE ASCENDING AT A HIGH SPEED AND DISAPPEARING WITHIN ABOUT 2 SECONDS.  THE
OBSERVER DESCRIBED THE OBJECT AS LARGE.  DURATION OF SIGHTING WAS
APPROXIMATELY TWENTY SECONDS.
 ------------------------------------

 Report #: 24
     From: SYSOP
Date Sent: 11-14-1985
  Subject: SAN MARCOS, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I
     DATE:   30 OCTOBER 1985
     TIME:   1700 HOURS
     CFN#:   0150
   SOURCE:   NAT'L REPORTING CENTER
 ------------------------------------
ONE WITNESS REPORTED SEEING A WHITE OBJECT MOVING ACROSS THE SKY AT AN ANGULAR
ASCENT.  THE OBSERVER SAID THE OBJECT WAS FOLLOWED BY A FLASH IN THE SKY.
 ------------------------------------

 Report #: 37
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 01-09-1986
  Subject: ROSEVILLE, CA.

CASE TYPE:   CE I - NL
     DATE:   3 JANUARY 1986
     TIME:   20:20 HOURS
     CFN#:   0163
   SOURCE:   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -----------------------------------------
THREE WITNESSES OBSERVED CIRCULAR OBJECT APROXIMATENLY 300 FEET IN DIAMETER
DIRECTLY OVER THEM THE OBJECT THEN MADE A 90 DEGREE TURN WENT INTO A FAST
SPEED AND DISAPEARED OUT OF SIGHT.  WITNESSES SAID WHILE OBSERVING THE OBJECT
IT MADE A RUMBLING SOUND AND SHOOK A HOUSE AND A BARN DURATION OF THE SIGHTING
WAS APROXIMATELY 20 SECONDS.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 39
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 01-31-1986
  Subject: EDWARDS A.F.B., CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I - EM
     DATE:   19 JANUARY 1986
     TIME:   07:00 HOURS
     CFN#:   0165
   SOURCE:   NAT`L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -----------------------------------------
WHILE DRIVING SOUTH ON HIGHWAY U.S. 395 NEAR EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE TWO
WITNESSES REPORTED OBSERVING A STATIONARY LONG RECTANGULAR SHAPED OBJECT.  THE
WITNESSES SIAD THAT THE OBJECT WAS A BRIGHT SILVER IN ITS COLOR.  THE
WITNESSES ALSO SIAD WHEN THEY WERE NEAR THE OBJECT THERE RADIO HAD A LOT OF
STATIC ON IT. i.e. E-M,. THE WITNESSES SIAD WHEN THEY STOP THE CAR THE OBJECT
HAD DISAPPEARED.  TOTAL DURATION OF SIGHTING: TEN MINUTES.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 62
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-09-1986
  Subject: ENCINO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE II
     DATE:   2 APRIL 1986
     TIME:   08:30 HOURS
     CFN#:   0187
 DURATION:   30:MINUTES
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 --------------------------------------------
One witness reported observing a small silvery object moving out side her
house.  The witness said: The object was about four incher in diamter.  She
said: The object was moving around and going over her dogs, she said her dogs
hair stood on end. She said: they seemed to be upset !  The witness said: She
watch this for about 7 minutes but then she looked up and notice a larger
silvery object approximately 8 to 10 inches in diamter.  She said: This larger
object then started to suppurate into four smaller objects. The witness said:
The closest point to the object from her was approximately 12 feet away. This
witnesses age is 76 years old.
 ---------------------------------------

 Report #: 64
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-10-1986
  Subject: SAN FRANCISCO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I
     DATE:   6 APRIL 1986
     TIME:   20:55 HOURS
     CFN#:   0189
 DURATION:   10:MINUTES
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 --------------------------------------------
Six witnesses reported observing a large circular object in the eastern sky.
The witnesses said: while they were observing the large object it started to
suppurate into two disk shaped objects. They said: The two disk shaped objects
were stationary for a while till a third disk shaped object came in to wiew.
The witnesses said: The three objects then went in a (V) foramtion and
disappeared to the north.
 ---------------------------------------


--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7649 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:22
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 3/8

 Report #: 68
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-17-1986
  Subject: CORONADO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I
     DATE:   DECEMBER
     TIME:   NIGHT
     CFN#:   0193
 DURATION:   UNKNOWN
   SOURCE:   JOURNAL CORONADO JAN 9,1986
 ----------------------------------------
Three Coronados spotted an Unidentified flying object land in front of them.
They were coming out of the bingo hall at Sacred Heart Church.
Mona O' Keefe, Rosemany Thelen and a North Island worker A Mr. Herb, described
the object as a clear plastic bubble about three feet in diameter. As the man
approached the object, it ascended and flew over Orange Ave to Olive Ave and
out over the ocean in the fight path for North Island, according to the two
women. Police said: they had no reports. The women said: they asked around
town, but nobody else said they had spotted the mysterious object.
 ---------------------------------------

 Report #: 71
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-22-1986
  Subject: PETALUMA, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I - NL
     DATE:   19 APRIL 1986
     TIME:   20:40 HOURS
     CFN#:   0196
 DURATION:   5 SECONDS
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -------------------------------------------
One witness reported observing 15 lights flying in a "V" formation at a fast
rate of speed. He said the lights were going from South East to North West. He
said they move from directly over hard to the horizon in 5 seconds.
 ---------------------------------------

 Report #: 74
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-22-1986
  Subject: WALNUT CREEK, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I
     DATE:   21 APRIL 1986
     TIME:   22:56 HOURS
     CFN#:   0199
 DURATION:   10 SECONDS
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -------------------------------------------
Witnesses reported observing a very large object movung in the night sky at a
fast rate of speed. They said that the object was on a North to South course.
Also that the object then disappeared in the horizon. Another witness reported
observing this same object from an area called Oakland, California at the same
time as the sighting in Walnut Creek, Califoria.  The duration in both cases
was approximately 10 seconds.
 ---------------------------------------

 Report #: 78
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-27-1986
  Subject: EL CENTRO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I - DD
     DATE:   15 NOVEMBER 1985
     TIME:   19:15 HOURS
     CFN#:   0203
 DURATION:   15:SECONDS
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -------------------------------------------
Four witnesses reported observing three large disk shaped objects moving at a
fast rate of speed. They said the objects were going on a north to south
course.  The witnesses said that the colors of the disks were that of a penny
or copper.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 79
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 04-27-1986
  Subject: NIPOMO, CA

CASE TYPE:   CE I - NL
     DATE:   26 APRIL 1986
     TIME:   21:27 HOURS
     CFN#:   0204
 DURATION:   15:MINUTES
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -------------------------------------------
Two witnesses reported observing four bright lights in the night skys.
They said that the lights or objects were at a high altitude and maneuvering
at high rates of speed. The witnesses said that the lights were going in
circles and making 90 degree turns. They also said the light were going in to
high speed vertical climbs and high speed vertical dives.
The lights or object would then make very fast stops.  The witnesses said they
were watching this going on directly over head in the North East sky.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 96
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 05-23-1986
  Subject: PETALUMA, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS
     DATE:   22 MAY 1986
     TIME:   0430
     CFN#:   0220
 DURATION:   UNKNOWN
   SOURCE:   (UPI) SEATTLE TIMES
 -----------------------------------------
PETALUMA, Calif. More then a dozen people reported seeing an unidentified
flying object hovering and darting over this suburban city north of San
Francisco early yesterday morning. I looked up and saw seveal orange lights
hovering in the sky, said Sue Heart, who was delivering newspapers at 4:30
a.m. when the UFO was sighted. A California Highway patrolman described the
fast flying object as a large, orange X with white lights on the front.  All
witnesses agreed it was not an airplane, and air-traffic and military
spokesmen in the area were unable to explain the object.
The sighting came three days after Brazilian air-force jets reportedly chased
more then a dozen fast-moving objects marked by intense green, red and white
lights.
 ----------------------------------------

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7650 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:22
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 4/8

 Report #: 98
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 05-25-1986
  Subject: ANAHEIM, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS
     DATE:   23 MAY 1986
     TIME:   2206 HOURS
     CFN#:   0222
 DURATION:   3:MINUTES
WITNESSES:   TWO
   SOURCE:   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 ----------------------------------------
Two witnesses reported observing a very large object.  They said it was shaped
like a "+" sign with many lights on it. The witnesses said the object was lay
flat when sighted.  Also they heard no sound coming from the object at the
time of the sighting. The witnesses said the object was moving in a straight
line going from East to West. There is another case like this one which took
place on the 22 of may in petaluma California. The witnesses said in that case
the object was shaped like an "X" and also had many colored lights on it. This
could be the same object?
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 100
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 05-28-1986
  Subject: VALLEJO, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS
     DATE:   25 MAY 1986
     TIME:   0145 HOURS
     CFN#:   0224
 DURATION:   UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:   TWO
   SOURCE:   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -----------------------------------------
Two witnesses reported observing an object that resebled a small full moon,
but the witnesses said, that it had a blue ring around it.
The witnesses said the blue ring was on the under side of the object and it
would increase in brightness when the object would move. The duration of this
sighting is not known.
 ----------------------------------------

 Report #: 104
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 06-02-1986
  Subject: LOS ANGELES, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS
     DATE:   31 MAY 1986
     TIME:   1930 HOURS
 DURATION:   3:MINUTES
WITNESSES:   ONE
 -------------------------------------------
One witness reported observing some objects that looked to him like the tail
of a kite. The witness was looking out a window at about or approximately 7:30
P.M. he described the objects at first as looking like the tail of a kite,
twisting in the wind. He said it seemed to him that the objects were gyrating
about one another like two pieces of paper carried aloft. About fifteen
minutes later he saw three unmarked black helicopters fly overhead, but not in
the dirrection in which he had seen the objects.  This witness is a Sunday
School teacher.
 -----------------------------------------

 Report #: 106
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 06-05-1986
  Subject: GRIZZLY FLATS, CA

CASE TYPE:   NL
     DATE:   1 JUNE 1986
     TIME:   0400 HOURS
     CFN#:   0230
 DURATION:   5:SECONDS
WITNESSES:   ONE
   SOURCE:   NAT'L UFO REPORTING CENTER
-+--------------------------------------
A witness reported waking up at 4:00 am hearing her dog barking vigorously.
Just as she went to her window to see what was happening the whole area around
her house and the woods lit up just as if it were daytime.  She could see
shadows being cast of whatever it was but not the object itself as it was
directly overhead.  She did not go out to investigate.  The lighting effect
lasted for about five seconds.  There was no sound.
 -----------------------------------------

 Report #: 107
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 09-23-1986
  Subject: GRASS VALLEY, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS
     DATE:   20 JUNE 1986
     TIME:   0100 HOURS
 DURATION:   15:MINUTES
WITNESSES:   SIX
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
-+-----------------------------------------
Six witnesses observed a large triangular shaped object with colored lights.
When first observed the object was stationary and then it started to move
directly toward to witnesses until it was directly overhead at an altitude
estimated to be over 1200 feet and they could all distinctly hear a low
humming sound for about 15 minutes.  The object was estimated to be 40 feet
across.  After about 15 minutes the object moved out of sight over the foot
hills moving north to south course.
 -----------------------------------------

 Report #: 108
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 09-23-1986
  Subject: SAN FRANCISCO, CA

CASE TYPE:   LRS - NL
     DATE:   20 JUNE 1986
     TIME:   0300 HOURS
 DURATION:   01: AND ONE HALF SECONDS
WITNESSES:   ONE
   SOURCE:   NATIONAL UFO REPORTING CENTER
 -------------------------------------------
One witness while standing out on his balconey observed a large bright light
moving in a vertical decent towards the ground and it passed behind a hill,
out of sight.  As he stood and watched the area, he could see that there was a
bright light coming from behind the hill.  He could see it illuminating the
contour of the hill.  He described the object as large.  He observed it for
one and a half minutes.  No sound was heard.
 -----------------------------------------

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7651 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:23
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 5/8

 Report #: 177
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 10-16-1986
  Subject: SONOMA, CA

CASE TYPE:  LRS - DS
     DATE:  06 JULY 1986
     TIME:  0515 HOURS
     CFN#:  0301
 DURATION:  15: MINUTES
WITNESSES:  ONE
   SOURCE:  INDEX-TRIBUNE, SONOMA, CA.
-+------------------------------------

  Sightings of strange flying objects have become more frequent in these parts
since late May when a California Highway Patrol officer spotted a peculiar
light in the sky during the wee hours of the morning.

  But last weekend, not only did Sonoman Joan Burtson observe an unusual
flying object - this one toyed with her and followed her car for several
blocks before finally giving up and going away.
  The head nurse at a local convalescent hospital dismesses the notion that
the bright object in the dawn sky which taunted her for some 15 minutes was a
space ship carting around some alien beings.
  "I don't believe in them," she emphatically states.  "I don't know what it
was but I don't believe in UFO's.  Burtson will acknowledge that in the last
few weeks she has heard numerous rumors of UFO sightings in Sonoma Valley.
For instance, an acquaintance on Eighth Street East reported that ever since
the CHP officer saw the strange light two months ago "that thing has been
hanging around here."
  However, Burtson's description and that of the CHP patrolman are vastly
different leading one to believe there are several odd things hovering around
up there.
  What was seen on the early morning of May 21 was a bright orange "X" shaped
object heading at a high rate of speed over the Valley to Petaluma.
  The only similarity  with Saturday's unexplained illuminating object was
that both were apparently headed in the same direction over the hill to
Petaluma.
  Burtson remembers it as a "solid mass of white light, it was circular
about the size of an apple.
  "There were no colors and it was not flashing."  she recalls.  Burtson's
curious find took place at 5:15 a.m. as she was on her way home from Napa
after dropping her husband Pat off at work.
  She initially noticed the stationary light in the vicinity of Eighth
Street East and Napa Road.  Later as she approached Leveroni Road from
Fifth Street West the flying object moved along with her and made the
same right turn.
  She subsequently made three U turns and each time the object would
seemingly use its remote control to reverse its course also.
  "I thought to myself this is weird so I made three U turns to test it
out," she says.
  On occasion, the UFO would become obscured by the trees but almost the
entire way home, no matter what Burtson would do " it would move
right along with me," she laughs.
  Finally, the flying object, for whatever reason, decided the game of
cat and mouse was over and it headed towards the Diamond A area,
disappearing over the hill.

 Report #: 183
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 10-16-1986
  Subject: GRASS VALLEY, CA

CASE TYPE:  LRS
     DATE:  05 SEPTEMBER 1986
     TIME:  0500 HOURS
     CFN#:  0307
 DURATION:  UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:  MANY
   SOURCE:  (PAPER UNKNOWN),CA-CR:MUFON
-+----------------------------------------

  Grass Valley - A silent but colorful flying object zoomed across the sky
over the Sierra foothills just before dawn Friday, according to some local
residents who witnessed the brief event.
  U.S. air defense officials said they had no explanation. "It was a
bluish-green light with a large tail," said Ron Talmage, a security officer
who was nearing the end of a night shift when he saw the unidentified object.
"It had little pieces flaking off of it like it was coming down," he said.
"Working nights, I see meteorites, little ones, all the time.  This was
spectacular and it seemed like it was just a few miles away."
  The blaze of color, reported by most observers to have occurred just before
5 a.m., was seen over a 40-mile area ranging from Colfax to Penn Valley.


--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7652 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:23
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 6/8

 Report #: 192
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 11-26-1986
  Subject: LOS ANGELES, CA

CASE TYPE:  LRS NL
     DATE:  24 NOVEMBER 1986
     TIME:  UNKNOWN
     CFN#:  0314
 DURATION:  UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:  MANY
   SOURCE:  KRLA RADIO STATION
-+-----------------------------------

Individual on morning of November 25 was driving to hospital and got
caught in traffic jam so turned on radio to listen for possible
alternative routes.  While listening he heard a report about a sighting
the night before witnessed by thousands of people.  They reported
a multi colored object that went from south to north.  Many calls
were made to the police.  An astronomer was also called and he
stated that it could have been a meteor.

 Report #: 197
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 12-01-1986
  Subject: CULVER CITY, CA

CASE TYPE:  LRS - NL
     DATE:  21 NOVEMBER 1986
     TIME:  2340 - 2345 HOURS
     CFN#:  0319
 DURATION:  05-07: MINUTES
WITNESSES:  ONE
   SOURCE:  CUFON - UFO INFORMATION SERVICE
-+-----------------------------------------

One witness reported seeing over her street, LaSalle, an object that the nose
of it looked like a boomerang with a pyramid bottom.  It was a very windy and
particularly clear night and when she looked to the north she saw a formation
coming towards her and her first impression was that it was a flock of birds
and then as it got closer it looked like a formation of stars.  They had a
luminous glow to them and they didn't look like head lamps or anything like
that.  As it came closer she noticed there were more lights going across the
bottom of it like a stingray - solid at least underneath and she could not see
through it.  As it came towards her the lights shut off in the center and only
the outline was left on.  Stayed there for about 5-7 minutes watching.  As it
came over her it went further up in the sky and it was weird as no light in
the belly of it but she could see a formation of it and what it looked like
but it kept fading in and out.  The lights in the front of the object stayed
on, no noise.  The object was much larger than any plane she has ever seen
from wing to wing.  A boomerang has very wide angles from one end to the other
as the object did also, and the nose of the object was not sharp.

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7653 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:24
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 7/8

 Report #: 198
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 12-10-1986
  Subject: BAKERSFIELD, CA

CASE TYPE:  LRS
     DATE:  12 JULY 1986
     TIME:  UNKNOWN
     CFN#:  0320
 DURATION:  UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:  THREE
   SOURCE:  MERCURY NEWS, SAN JOSE, CA
-+------------------------------------

REDONDO BEACH - Andy Hoyt admits he has no proof - not anymore, at least -
that he witnessed the crash of an aircraft that may be the Pentagon's
most carefully guarded secret.
  His sister, Lisa, and her 16-year-old son, Joey, reportedly also saw the
plane, but both declined to discuss the alleged incident.  Hoyt, an unemployed
Redondo Beach carpenter, says he snapped photographs of the
plane as it plummeted to the ground in the Sequoia National Forest near
Bakersfield.
  But the photographs were given to the Air Force, Hoyt says, and the Air
Force isn't talking.
  Defense experts, however, say Hoyt's description of what he claims he saw
that night fits the most educated guesses of the configuration of the
top secret F-19 stealth fighter - a plane the Air Force will not confirm
even exists.
  In a scenario that sounds like a science fiction movie, Hoyt says he
and two relatives saw something drop out of the sky and explode into
flames on the other side of a hill about a half-mile away.
  "It seemed like it was something other than an airplane, said Hoyt,
26, who was on a camping trip. "Believe it or not, I thought it was
a UFO."
  Whatever it was, he says, the military has been treating him royally since
he called Edwards Air Force Base when he returned home the following Sunday
evening and told the Air Force about the photographs.
  Hoyt says he and his party were driving east on state Highway 178
about 15 miles northeast of Bakersfiled in the early morning hours of July 12
when they pulled over for a brief rest.  He was just climbing back into his
truck when he saw it.
  "All I saw were three red lights and a dark image behind them like
an upside-down triangle."  Hoyt said, adding that each light was
at a point of the triangle.  He said he pulled a camera from the
dashboard of the truck and managed to take two or three pictures
before the plane disappeared over the hill.
  Then, a pair of explosions "lit up the sky like it was daylight out."
  Contrary to published reports on the day of the accident, Hoyt says, the
aircraft did not explode before it crashed.  At least one Air Force source has
been quoted as saying plane exploded in midair, which could explain why the
pilot, who was killed, was not able to eject safetly.
  "It was definitely not on fire when it came down," Hoyt said. "Why couldn't
the guy eject?"
  After making sure the blaze was reported on an emergency roadside phone, the
party continued to its campground north of nearby Lake Isabella.
  His call to Edwards upon returning home brought a sudden response from the
Air Force, Hoyt says.  "They took my name and number and within an hour
someone had flown down here and talked to me," he said.
  "They didn't press me, but they wanted to see the film in my camera."

 Report #: 208
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 01-18-1987
  Subject: CALIFORNIA-OREGON

CASE TYPE:  LRS - NL
     DATE:  25 NOVEMBER 1986
     TIME:  2022 HOURS
     CFN#:  0330
 DURATION:  UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:  MANY
   SOURCE:  ARKANSAS GAZETTE, LITTLE ROCK, AR
-+-------------------------------------------

ARKANSAS GAZETTE, Little Rock, AR -
Nov. 26, 1986

Fireball not man-made, experts say

 Defense experts Tuesday eliminated "space junk or any man-made object" as an
explanation for a mysterious meteoric fireball that streaked across the
Pacific Coast.
 The object, sighted at 8:22 p.m. (CST) Monday, dazzled stargazers from the
California-Oregon border to the Los Angeles area.
 "It looked like a long, green meteor but it lasted way too long, arcing
across the sky toward the ocean, then it just blew up," Roy Jackson of
Mountain View, Cal., said.
 "It wasn't space junk or any man-made object re-entering the atmosphere, and
we don't track meteors," Del Kindschi of the North American Aerospace Defense
Command at Denver said.  "We heard about it but there weren't any satellites
or man-made space objects entering the atmosphere at that time." (UPI)


--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)



Message #7654 - BAMA
   Date : 22-Sep-91  1:24
   From : John Powell
     To : James Nugent
Subject : CA Sightings/Info, 8/8

 Report #: 210
     From: UFO INFO SERVICE
Date Sent: 01-18-1987
  Subject: SARATOGA, CA.

CASE TYPE:  LRS - NL
     DATE:  14 OCTOBER 1986
     TIME:  2015 - 2030 HOURS
     CFN#:  0332
 DURATION:  UNKNOWN
WITNESSES:  FIFTEEN
   SOURCE:  MERCURY NEWS, SAN JOSE, CA
-+------------------------------------

MERCURY NEWS, San Jose, CA - Oct. 23,
1986

Mystery lights return to Saratoga

By Kathy Holub
Mercury News Staff Writer

  A beautiful apparition has been glowing in the night sky over Saratoga,
leaving viewers baffled and entranced.
  About 15 people, all agog, called Santa Clara County dispatchers on
Tuesday night to report a mysterious bright red light that hovered in the
sky from 8:15 to 8:30 and then disappeared.
  Dozens of callers described a similar phenomenon on Oct. 16, same time, same
place.
  "It was very exciting," said Maureen Denton of Los Gatos, who watched last
week's display during a break in her real estate class at West Valley
College.
  "It was very bright, much larger than the lights you see on airplanes.  At
one point, something burning or flickering dropped from it.  It was just a
tiny little flicker that came down.  We all went: `Oooh, what was that?'"
  No one seems to know.
  That includes Vicki Yauger of Saratoga, who spied the object Tuesday
night while lounging with her husband in thier backyard spa.
  Yauger said the light appeared high in the northwestern sky, first moving
toward them, then away.
  Through her binoculars, the apparition became a cluster of lights.
  "It was scary.  When it started getting larger, it seemed to be coming
down," she said.
  Yauger didn't see the object fade from view because she had just gone
into the house.  Her husband told her the light turned green and slowly
disappeared.
  Spokesmen at Moffett Field Naval Air Station said nothing flew out of their
airfield Tuesday that looked like that. And officials at Vandenberg Air Force
Base in Lompoc said they didn't launch a thing Tuesday night.  Ditto for Oct.
15.
  Other watchers of the night sky - air traffic controllers and astronomers at
Lick Observatory - said they saw nothing unusual.

--- XRS! 4.50+
 * Origin: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence (Quick 1:19/19.19)

---  EOF ---

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ETs and UFOs in Ancient India
Keywords: cia, mj12, bush, rockefeller, rothschild
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:47:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 108


Here is an article that appeared on ParaNet regarding the ancient Indian Vimanas.

NEWS CLIPPING SERVICE

DATE OF ARTICLE:  October 12, 1988
SOURCE OF ARTICLE:  The Hindu
LOCATION:  Bangalore, India
BYLINE:  None
========================================================
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
All Rights Reserved.
THIS FILE WAS PROVIDED BY THE UFO NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE
AND PREPARED BY PARANET ALPHA -- PARANET INFORMATION
SERVICE
PARANET INFORMATION SERVICE BBS
PARANET ALPHA
1-303-431-8796  9600 BAUD
DENVER, COLORADO
========================================================

'INDIA HAD A SUPERIOR CIVILIZATION'

BANGALORE, OCTOBER 11

     India  may  have had a superior civilization  with  possible
contacts  with extraterrestrial visitors,  and the flying devices
called 'Vimanas' described in ancient Indian texts may  underline
their possible connections with today's aerospace technology,  an
Italian scientist told the World Space Conference here today.
     Dr. Roberto Pinotti asked the delegates to examine in detail
the   Hindu   texts  instead  of  dismissing  'all   the   Vimana
descriptions and traditions as mere myth.'
     "The  importance  of such studies and  investigations  could
prove  to  be shocking for today's man because the  existence  of
flying  devices  beyond  mythology can only be explained  with  a
forgotten superior civilization on earth," he said.
     Pointing  out  that  Indian Gods and heroes  fought  in  the
skies using piloted vehicles with terrible weapons.   Dr. Pinotti
said they were similar to modern jet propelled flying machines.
     32  secrets:   He said certain descriptions of  the  Vimanas
seemed  'too  detailed and technical in nature to be  labeled  as
myth.'   He  cited  various texts to show there were  32  secrets
relating  to  the operation of Vimanas,  some of which  could  be
compared   to  modern  day  use  of  radar,   solar  energy   and
photography.
     Quoting  from 'Vymanika Shastra' he said the ancient  flying
devices  of  India were made from special heat  absorbing  metals
named 'Somaka, Soundalike and Mourthwika.'
     He  said the text also discussed the seven kinds  of  mirror
and  lenses  installed aboard for defensive and  offensive  uses.
The  so-called 'Pinjula Mirror' offered a sort of 'visual shield'
preventing  the pilots from being blinded by 'evil rays' and  the
weapon  'Marika' used to shoot enemy aircraft 'does not seem  too
different from what we today called lesser technology,' he said.
     According  to  the  Italian  expert,   the  'principles   of
propulsion  as far as the descriptions were concerned,  might  be
defined  as  electrical  and chemical but solar energy  was  also
involved.
     For  instance,  the 'Tripura Vimana' mentioned in  'Vymanika
Shastra' was a large craft operated by 'motive power generated by
solar  rays,' Dr.  Pinotti said,  adding 'its elongated form  was
surely much closer to that of a modern blimp.'
     Sophisticated design:   According to Dr.  Pinotti,  the huge
'Shakuna  Vimana'  described in the text 'might be defined  as  a
cross  between a plane and a rocket of our times and  its  design
might remind one of today's space shuttle.'
     'Surely,  it  expresses the most complex  and  sophisticated
aeronautical  design among all the other descriptions of  Vimanas
mentioned  in the 'Vymanika Shastra,' he said.   He described the
author of the treatise 'Vymanika Shastra' as a man 'attempting to
explain an advanced technology.'
     Dr. Pinotti, who has made an exhaustive study of the history
of   Indian  astronautics,   said  another   text,   'Samarangana
Sutradhara' had 230 stanzas devoted to the principles of building
Vimanas and their use in peace and war.
     He said ancient Aryans knew the use of the element 'fire' as
could   be  seen  from  their  'Astra'  weapons   that   included
Soposamhara  (flame  belching missile),  Prasvapna (which  caused
sleep)  and four kinds of Agni Astras that traveled in sheets  of
flame and produced thunder.
     He  said  the car that was supposed to go up to  Suryamandal
(solar system) and the Naksatramandala (stellar system) cannot be
dismissed  as  a myth because of the 'technical  nature'  of  its
description.
     Dr.   Pinotti   said  depictions  of  space  travel,   total
destruction  by  incredible  weapons and the  fact  that  Vimanas
resembled  modern unidentified flying objects would suggest  that
India had a 'superior but forgotten civilization.'
     'In the light of this, we think it will be better to examine
the Hindu texts' and subject the descriptive models of Vimanas to
more scientific scrutiny,' he said.--PTI

=================================================================

PARANET FILENAME:  101288IA.UFO

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]


--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
        -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The KRLL File
Keywords: cia, mj12, bush, rockefeller, rothschild
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:49:31 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: usa
Lines: 2643

This file is over 2600 lines long ...... Len

=====================================================================
O. H. Krill (Krll) Intro:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aside from the William Milton Cooper material, these 4 files are
considered to be highly controversial in the field of UFOlogy. The
"author" of this work, "O. H. Krill" is believed to have been a joint
effort of John Grace and John Lear. As the story goes, this file was
put together (according to sources close to John Lear) to "smoke out
the dis-informants in the field". For many of us who have been into
this field for awhile, this file is held in low esteem. Discussions
by UFO "newbies" on this text has often degenerated into vast flame
wars on the various UFO "echoes" of the BBS world, as there might be
some truth in it and possibly a bit of BS. I will leave it up to you to
sort out which is which. If there is such a thing as a "black sheep"
of a UFO text, then *this* file would easily qualify.

These files are a bit large so I will give you the size info here:

(All sizes minus message headers)

Krill part 1: 30241 bytes
Krill part 2: 16852 bytes
Krill part 3: 36486 bytes
Krill part 4: 42679 bytes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please note: I only post these files to educate people what is currently
available. They are for informational purposes only and as such, should
NOT be taken at face value. There is NO substitute for research and
investigation. If you want to ridicule the information, fine...but I
draw the line at personal slams, so please do yourselves a favor and
avoid ad homenim attacks and we will get along fine. Let's endeavor
to be a notch above the sci.skeptics and alt.paranormal obnoxiousness :-)

As a rule, I try to avoid any editorilizing and pretty much leave it up
to you to do with as you see fit.


Don


--
-* Don Allen *-  InterNet: [e-mail]  // Amiga..for the best of us.
USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-)
UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona      0110 0110 0110 Just say NO!
Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"